Health care summit

[Perchoutofwater]

Don't know.

 

I was just reading up on his claim family premiums would drop 14 to 20%.

 

Our insurance is going to go up 13% this year, found that out yesterday.

[Savage Beatings]

That is not necessarily true. If you force private insurers to cover pre-existing conditions you just force them to increase their rates on everyone. It is just another form of redistribution, but it doesn't necessarily signal the death of private insurance.

 

But one of the main reasons they are even considering reform is to bring down rates for everyone, so forcing them to increase rates on everyone would be the exact opposite result of what they are promising... so in theory, that would not be an option.

 

ETA: or maybe they would do that knowing that as every Private provider increases their rates across the board to cover pre-exisitng conditions and the community rating, then the Government COOP (Public Option in disguise) would be able to compete directly at government forced lower premiums. People who can't afford the rate hike would again have few to no options but to drop their Private coverage for Public. Either way it still signals the eventual death of the Private Industry.

 

For any right minded Republican those provisions should be deal breakers in any Health Care Reform.

Edited February 26, 2010 by Savage Beatings

[dmarc117]

ust moments before the afternoon session got underway, C-SPAN's cameras picked up audio of Biden chatting casually with participants.

 

"It's easy being vice president — you don't have to do anything."

 

Whomever Biden was chatting with said, "It's like being the grandpa and not the parent."

 

"Yeah, that's it!" replied Biden.

 

[Perchoutofwater]

But one of the main reasons they are even considering reform is to bring down rates for everyone, so forcing them to increase rates on everyone would be the exact opposite result of what they are promising... so in theory, that would not be an option.

 

I agree, but you and I both know this isn't about bringing rate down, but rather redistribution and control.

[Savage Beatings]

I agree, but you and I both know this isn't about bringing rate down, but rather redistribution and control.

 

Which is why the GOP should not vote for the Bill with those provisions in it, even if the Dems throw them a bone by adding things that they like.

[Sox]

I find the the notion of Republicans being obstructionists to be hilarious,when the dems had a super majority for the better part of a year.They could have passed ANY legislation they wanted to.But no,they were too busy extorting bribes and payoffs for the votes needed to get the bill passed.

[Savage Beatings]

I didn't see this happen, but I heard that one of the Republicans was accused of using a prop because he had the Bill in front of him.

[Perchoutofwater]

I find the the notion of Republicans being obstructionists to be hilarious,when the dems had a super majority for the better part of a year.They could have passed ANY legislation they wanted to.But no,they were too busy extorting bribes and payoffs for the votes needed to get the bill passed.

 

But Madcow and Olbermann told the liberals that it was all the conservative's fault. Typical liberals never taking any responsibility for themselves.

[The Irish Doggy]

Our insurance is going to go up 13% this year, found that out yesterday.

 

 

Gosh, I sure am glad we have that greatest health care in the world system that is bankrupting the country.

[Perchoutofwater]

Gosh, I sure am glad we have that greatest health care in the world system that is bankrupting the country.

 

Apparently Canadian official Danny Williams who is the Premier of Newfoundland and Labrador thinks so as he came here for his heart surgery when they offered the same surgery in Canada.

 

ETA: I don't think health care is what is bankrupting the country, but rather out of control spending and other redistribution plans such as social security and medicare are. Remember the road to hell is paved with good intentions, well you liberals have done one hell of a paving job.

Edited February 26, 2010 by Perchoutofwater

[evil_gop_liars]

success!!

[Perchoutofwater]

Can someone point to any non-budget bill that has been passed via reconciliation? I'm not saying there hasn't been one, I'm just not aware of it, and would like anyone that defends shoving this health care bill down the throats of the American electorate against their will to point out when it has been used for something other than it's intended purpose to reconcile a budget.

[bushwacked]

Gosh, I sure am glad we have that greatest health care in the world system that is bankrupting the country.

 

[evil_gop_liars]

Can someone point to any non-budget bill that has been passed via reconciliation? I'm not saying there hasn't been one, I'm just not aware of it, and would like anyone that defends shoving this health care bill down the throats of the American electorate against their will to point out when it has been used for something other than it's intended purpose to reconcile a budget.

Health care and reconciliation actually have a lengthy history. "In fact, the way in which virtually all of health reform, with very, very limited exceptions, has happened over the past 30 years has been the reconciliation process,"

[westvirginia]

I didn't see this happen, but I heard that one of the Republicans was accused of using a prop because he had the Bill in front of him.

 

I saw it in the Dr waiting room. It's actually one of the few things I agreed with obamessia on.

 

From what I saw overall, obamessiah is one of the most arrogant people I've ever seen. Discounting things out-of-hand as just "talking points" if he couldn't paint them in a light he wanted.

[CaP'N GRuNGe]

I find the the notion of Republicans being obstructionists to be hilarious,when the dems had a super majority for the better part of a year.They could have passed ANY legislation they wanted to.But no,they were too busy extorting bribes and payoffs for the votes needed to get the bill passed.

 

They did not have any "super" majority in the Senate. And the problem that Dems run into is they have a big tent, meaning they don't walk 100% in lockstep with their leadership. It's much easier to be in the GOP minorities shoes and just vote NO on everything with a an open verbal acknowldegement even that their whole point of existence right now is not to do their job as legislators, but rather do everything they can to make sure Obama is seen as a failure.

[Square]

Apparently Canadian official Danny Williams who is the Premier of Newfoundland and Labrador thinks so as he came here for his heart surgery when they offered the same surgery in Canada.

 

ETA: I don't think health care is what is bankrupting the country, but rather out of control spending and other redistribution plans such as social security and medicare are. Remember the road to hell is paved with good intentions, well you liberals have done one hell of a paving job.

Do you think multiple unnecessary wars or the gigantic military spending has anything to do with bankrupting the country? Maybe it's just me but I'd rather have better healthcare. I don't think someone with pre-existing conditions should be excluded from insurance. What did they do to deserve that? I also think there should be some kind of a safety net/limit set on how much a healthcare company can charge a family. Maybe I'm a big pot-smoking, frisbee throwing, granola eating, tree-hugging liberal but I'd like to see Healthcare not bankrupt so many families. Last numbers I found were around 50% of bankruptcies were caused by health care bills.

Q: What is the percentage of total personal bankruptcies caused by health care bills?

A: A Harvard study published in 2005 found that about half of those who filed for bankruptcy said health care expenses, illness or related job-loss led them to do so.

Factcheck.org link

 

Maybe, we should stop calling it a "Defense Budget" when it doesn't really seem to be used for that? It seems a little over-sized for me. I'd rather pay for old people to get healthcare and retire.

The 2009 U.S. military budget is almost as much as the rest of the world's defense spending combined and is over nine times larger than the military budget of China

Wiki

[Perchoutofwater]

Health care and reconciliation actually have a lengthy history. "In fact, the way in which virtually all of health reform, with very, very limited exceptions, has happened over the past 30 years has been the reconciliation process,"

 

In the three examples your link gives, all were tied to a budget bill. The current health care bill is not tied to a budget bill is it? Isn't reconciliation only supposed to be used on budget bills?

[bushwacked]

In the three examples your link gives, all were tied to a budget bill. The current health care bill is not tied to a budget bill is it? Isn't reconciliation only supposed to be used on budget bills?

 

What is a budget bill?

[Perchoutofwater]

Do you think multiple unnecessary wars or the gigantic military spending has anything to do with bankrupting the country? Maybe it's just me but I'd rather have better healthcare. I don't think someone with pre-existing conditions should be excluded from insurance. What did they do to deserve that? I also think there should be some kind of a safety net/limit set on how much a healthcare company can charge a family. Maybe I'm a big pot-smoking, frisbee throwing, granola eating, tree-hugging liberal but I'd like to see Healthcare not bankrupt so many families. Last numbers I found were around 50% of bankruptcies were caused by health care bills.

Factcheck.org link

 

Maybe, we should stop calling it a "Defense Budget" when it doesn't really seem to be used for that? It seems a little over-sized for me. I'd rather pay for old people to get healthcare and retire.

 

Wiki

 

If you want to argue this I will in another thread, but I'm not going off on this tangent in this thread. All I'll state is that I do think defense spending needs to be brought back in line and that an independent audit of the Pentagon would be a very good idea. I also will not that our defense is specifically enumerated in The Constitution (remember that thing) where as, social security, medicare, and other forms of redistribution are not.

 

I'd also note that while medial expenses might be the last straw that causes bankruptcy for individuals they are rarely the sole cause regardless of what factcheck.DNC says. Yes 50% of people that go bankrupt have medical bills, I bet hey also have car payments, and might have rent or mortgage payments.

 

Again if you want to start another thread we can, but I will not contribute to the high jacking of this thread.

[Perchoutofwater]

What is a budget bill?

 

reconciliation process - A process established in the Congressional Budget Act of 1974 by which Congress changes existing laws to conform tax and spending levels to the levels set in a budget resolution. Changes recommended by committees pursuant to a reconciliation instruction are incorporated into a reconciliation measure.

US Senate Glossary

 

budget resolution - Legislation in the form of a concurrent resolution setting forth the congressional budget. The budget resolution establishes various budget totals, divides spending totals into functional categories (e.g., transportation), and may include reconciliation instructions to designated House or Senate committees.

US Senate Glossary

 

Can you with any honestly say that either of these apply to the current health care bill?

[bushwacked]

In the three examples your link gives, all were tied to a budget bill. The current health care bill is not tied to a budget bill is it? Isn't reconciliation only supposed to be used on budget bills?

 

 

In fact, over the past three decades, the number of major health financing measures that were NOT passed via budget reconciliation can be counted on one hand. And one of those — the 1988 Medicare Catastrophic Coverage Act — was repealed the following year after a backlash by seniors who were asked to underwrite the measure themselves. So using the process to try to pass a health overhaul bill might not be easy. But it won't be unprecedented.

 

[borge007]

But Madcow and Olbermann told the liberals that it was all the conservative's fault. Typical liberals never taking any responsibility for themselves.

 

Golly Perch-Yer so smart-you know everything

[CaP'N GRuNGe]

If you want to argue this I will in another thread, but I'm not going off on this tangent in this thread. All I'll state is that I do think defense spending needs to be brought back in line and that an independent audit of the Pentagon would be a very good idea. I also will not that our defense is specifically enumerated in The Constitution (remember that thing) where as, social security, medicare, and other forms of redistribution are not.

 

I'd also note that while medial expenses might be the last straw that causes bankruptcy for individuals they are rarely the sole cause regardless of what factcheck.DNC says. Yes 50% of people that go bankrupt have medical bills, I bet hey also have car payments, and might have rent or mortgage payments.

 

Again if you want to start another thread we can, but I will not contribute to the high jacking of this thread.

 

That George Washington guy also said we should be very wary about foreign entanglements...

[evil_gop_liars]

So it seems to me the Republicans at "summit" made sure they had campaign sound bites for their up coming elections. I guess it was a success for both parties.