Is Health Care a Right?

[Kid Cid]

I don't define that as rich...I define that as moderately above middle class.

Don't forget that they essentially start with a mortgage based on their student loans. A decent stream of money coming in doesn't mean squat if there is just as large a stream going out.

[Ursa Majoris]

Don't forget that they essentially start with a mortgage based on their student loans. A decent stream of money coming in doesn't mean squat if there is just as large a stream going out.

The amount of debt a medical graduate begins with boggles the mind. It's only a matter of time before there's a doctor shortage and we make it much easier for foreign doctors to immigrate.

[Perchoutofwater]

Slavery

Child labor

Seven day working weeks

Strikers shot by the militia

Lynchings

Grinding poverty

Early death

Pestilence unchecked

Tenement slums

 

Yes, our nation sure did survive it's first 150 years. Ah, the good old days.

 

How many of those things were stopped by the forced redistribution of wealth?

[Perchoutofwater]

Club,

 

I'm glad everything is fine. You also prove that nobody really goes without needed treatment even if they are unable to pay. My B-I-L is in Vietnam right now on a trip for doctors without borders. Most docs really do want to help people, and will regardless of ability to pay if the treatment is medically necessary. There are also charity hospitals scattered throughout the country many that provide medically necessary services for absolutely free.

 

Part of your problem is your insurance company's maximum they are willing to pay . Now you can blame the insurance company on that, but you would be wrong in doing so. The problem like discussed in previous threads is the way people view insurance. In order for insurance companies to offer anything close to affordable insurance, and still provide doctors visits for less than the cost of an oil change, they have to cap the overall amount they pay out. The better solution would be to make people actually have to pay to go see the doctor, and have insurance truly be insurance for catastrophic occurrences, not of stitches, and not for a for going to the doctor and getting drugs for the sniffles.

[Ursa Majoris]

The better solution would be to make people actually have to pay to go see the doctor, and have insurance truly be insurance for catastrophic occurrences, not of stitches, and not for a for going to the doctor and getting drugs for the sniffles.

Did you know there are high deductible policies out there that also cover three doctor visits per year? I didn't. Deductibles are in the range of $5k to $10k. Not sure if there's a cap.

[Ursa Majoris]

How many of those things were stopped by the forced redistribution of wealth?

If by that you mean taxes, then most of them. Certainly none were stopped by conservatives.

[Perchoutofwater]

Did you know there are high deductible policies out there that also cover three doctor visits per year? I didn't. Deductibles are in the range of $5k to $10k. Not sure if there's a cap.

 

Yes I did. Actually my deductible is $10k. The problem is not in what is offered but in how it is offered, primarily through employers. Employees now expect doctors visits for less than oil changes, and until they actually see how much they are paying (indirectly in reduced salaries) in premiums they are not likely to look at it with anything like a rational view. We really need to cut the link between the employer and insurance, and then we need to make insurance be insurance for major medical cost, not going to the doctor or paying for a script of antibiotics a minor bacterial infection.

[Perchoutofwater]

If by that you mean taxes, then most of them. Certainly none were stopped by conservatives.

 

No, most were changed by laws, not redistribution. Now there may have been the need for some taxation in order to enforce those laws, but you weren't taking money out of one persons pocket and putting it in another persons pocket like we have since FDR.

[caddyman]

Vaudeville performers. Ghey fluffers. You.

Please...I spent more last week than he makes in a year. I am sure I make three times what you do. MO-RON.

[cre8tiff]

Please...I spent more last week than he makes in a year. I am sure I make three times what you do. MO-RON.

 

Oh, yes, this is believable.

 

You also date starlets and have rock-hard abs, I'd wager.

[Kid Cid]

Yes I did. Actually my deductible is $10k. The problem is not in what is offered but in how it is offered, primarily through employers. Employees now expect doctors visits for less than oil changes, and until they actually see how much they are paying (indirectly in reduced salaries) in premiums they are not likely to look at it with anything like a rational view. We really need to cut the link between the employer and insurance, and then we need to make insurance be insurance for major medical cost, not going to the doctor or paying for a script of antibiotics a minor bacterial infection.

I will agree with you on this point perch. We need to sever the connection between employers and health care. It strangles businesses and insulates the average person from the true cost of health care. And pretty much no one has put forth a plan that attempts to do this. Because remember, business as usual mean all the right people make the money.

[caddyman]

Oh, yes, this is believable.

 

You also date starlets and have rock-hard abs, I'd wager.

Don't care what you believe....lol.

[Ursa Majoris]

Yes I did. Actually my deductible is $10k. The problem is not in what is offered but in how it is offered, primarily through employers. Employees now expect doctors visits for less than oil changes, and until they actually see how much they are paying (indirectly in reduced salaries) in premiums they are not likely to look at it with anything like a rational view. We really need to cut the link between the employer and insurance, and then we need to make insurance be insurance for major medical cost, not going to the doctor or paying for a script of antibiotics a minor bacterial infection.

There are three essentials, IMO:

 

Break the employer - health insurance link. Eliminate employers from the health care chain across the board.

Eliminate the bankruptcy due to medical bills problem. In 2010, no-one should be bankrupted by being ill.

Drive down costs.

 

There are various ways to achieve these ends but these are the ultimate aims, again IMO. All the rest is tinkering around the edges.

[Perchoutofwater]

There are three essentials, IMO:

 

Break the employer - health insurance link. Eliminate employers from the health care chain across the board.

Eliminate the bankruptcy due to medical bills problem. In 2010, no-one should be bankrupted by being ill.

Drive down costs.

 

There are various ways to achieve these ends but these are the ultimate aims, again IMO. All the rest is tinkering around the edges.

 

Obviously I agree with the first and last of your statements. The one in the middle, I have some minor trouble with, in that I think one needs to consider if they are bankrupt through no fault of their own, or if they medical bill just happened to be the last straw on top of a huge amount of consumer debt etc.... If it is a relatively small medical bill that bankrupts the person while it could be said the medical bill bankrupted the person the reality is it was the final cost, but not the real cause. Yes I'm sure that almost everyone that has gone bankrupt has medical bills. I'm also quite sure that everyone that has gone bankrupt has cable bills, phone bills, car payments, mortgage payments/ rent, etc... that also contributed to their bankruptcy. I'd also say that the rich also have medical bills. Amazingly enough almost all of us have medical bills.

 

I think we should help those that are responsible and have purchased legitimate insurance but have medical bills so high as they exceed the maximum the policy will pay out, as they have done what is right, and have tried to be responsible. I question if we should bail out the guy that is irresponsible and the medical cost for the year are less than that of his cable, internet, and bar tab, as that just rewards irresponsibility. I do think before we forcefully take from one persons pocket to put into another's the person receiving the funds does need to be in dire straights, and by dire straights I mean living with minimal creature comforts.

 

Again when I say we above I'm talking about the government and not charity.

Edited March 15, 2010 by Perchoutofwater

[yo mama]

That article did a great job of whining about taxes. Don't want to pay more in taxes? Great! Then either: (1) let government do what the private sector has proven itself incapable of; or (2) step out of the way let government reform the way money gets made in the business of health care. While health care is not a "right," the status quo is pitifully wrong.

Edited March 15, 2010 by yo mama

[wirehairman]

While it is not the government's job to force doctors to provide all health care for free, it is the government's responsibility to ensure that basic health care is affordable for the average schmo. It is the government's job to protect the citizenry from oppressive forces, free market or otherwise.

 

Too bad all of the current plans, from both sides of the aisle, are simply trying to prop up the broken system instead of adressing actual health care costs and meaningful ways to bring them under control.

[cre8tiff]

It is the government's job to protect the citizenry from oppressive forces, free market or otherwise.

hear, hear!!

[i_am_the_swammi]

How many of those things were stopped by the forced redistribution of wealth?

 

Most were stopped because people realized they were wrong...you know, like not providing the citizens of your country access to reasonably priced healthcare.

[wirehairman]

Most were stopped because people realized they were wrong...you know, like not providing the citizens of your country access to reasonably priced healthcare.

 

Or conversely, providing the citizens of your contury with insurance for unreasonably priced health care . . .

[Caveman_Nick]

hear, hear!!

 

Can you point out where it says that? I missed it.

[Perchoutofwater]

Letter to the editor from and ER doctor.

 

Dear Sirst:

During my shift in the Emergency Room last night, I had the pleasure of evaluating a patient whose smile revealed an expensive shiny gold tooth, whose body was adorned with a wide assortment of elaborate and costly tattoos, who wore a very expensive brand of tennis shoes and who chatted on a new cellular telephone equipped with a popular R&B ringtone.

While glancing over her patient chart, I happened to notice that her payer status was listed as "Medicaid"! During my examination of her, the patient informed me that she smokes more than one costly pack of cigarettes every day and somehow still has money to buy pretzels and beer.

And, you and our Congress expect me to pay for this woman's health care? I contend that our nation's "health care crisis" is not the result of a shortage of quality hospitals, doctors or nurses. Rather, it is the result of a "crisis of culture", a culture in which it is perfectly acceptable to spend money on luxuries and vices while refusing to take care of one's self or, heaven forbid, purchase health insurance. It is a culture based in the irresponsible credo that "I can do whatever I want to because someone else will always take care of me".

Once you fix this "culture crisis" that rewards irresponsibility and dependency, you'll be amazed at how quickly our nation's health care difficulties will disappear.

Respectfully,

STARNER JONES, MD

Jackson MS

[yo mama]

Can you point out where it says that? I missed it.

[Perchoutofwater]

 

I'm thinking that is a no.

[Chavez]

I don't define that as rich...I define that as moderately above middle class.

I'd like to say hello from below the poverty line.

[whomper]

Please...I spent more last week than he makes in a year. I am sure I make three times what you do. MO-RON.

 

Then why did you stiff Spain out of that hundy you lost to him ?