They sure are doing a good job deliving the mail.

[Perchoutofwater]

Problem is that UPS and FedEx can charge differently according to where it is going. USPS has to deliver everywhere no matter what. The two businesses are really apples and oranges but what is the solution? Cut out all that expensive, unprofitable rural deliveries? That could make a huge difference but it won't ever happen. USPS is a money loser by its very design.

 

Why should you subsidize my mail? Yes rural areas would have to pay more, or if you were sending to a rural area you would have to pay more. Solution is if you live in a rural area you use more email, or you drive the 20 miles to the UPS store. Seriously why do we need regular mail anyway? If we send anything of importance, we already don't trust USPS, we send it FedEx. You can take care of most everything via email. About the only thing I can see is it would eliminate a lot of mass mailings.

[SteelBunz]

Problem is that UPS and FedEx can charge differently according to where it is going. USPS has to deliver everywhere no matter what. The two businesses are really apples and oranges but what is the solution? Cut out all that expensive, unprofitable rural deliveries? That could make a huge difference but it won't ever happen. USPS is a money loser by its very design.

 

Swammi had it right.....regular delivery should be about 3-4 times a week. I know I don't get enough mail during the week to make it worth them stopping by my house more than 3 times a week.

 

Keep expanding their higher ticket, trackable items...priority mail, flat rate boxes, registered mail....etc. And their metered mail services for businesses is invaluable. But I don't know many people who use the 1st class mail service to send bills in anymore. Maybe the random, odd bill every month or so.

 

Urge people to use the registered letter system to pay a bill, as they cannot guarantee a certain quickness anymore with a 1st class letter and cut the delivery down to 3 or 4 days. I know we pay most things online.

 

Problem is.....those who buy money orders to pay bills and send them by mail are usually those who could ill afford to pay for a registered letter.

[Duchess Jack]

See my response to brewer in post 14.

 

Think of how much landfill space we would be saving if it cost a little more for Ed McMahon to send out my sweepstakes entry from the grave.

I could roll with a little waste, but what about the folk that make all those extra things and the people that clearly benefit from them (as there is a reason they are being sent out) what about the people who make the paper and the ink? what about the people who work in the landfills?

 

again - I'd be cool with less waste - I am just trying to see if I can put myself in the 'business is king' mindset you usually roll with

[millerx]

It doesn't help that they waste money on things like sponsoring a left-nutted cheating bike rider in a sport nobody really cares to watch. What a waste, do they really need that to let people know they exist?

Edited April 13, 2010 by millerx

[i_am_the_swammi]

What does FedEx charge for 1st Class mail of a letter?

 

No idea....and I bet it makes up less than .1% of their revenue, if it even exists.

 

Whats your point? That the UPS should be as profitable as Fedex, even though it is burdened with delivering regular mail (circulars, magazines, general correspondence, bills, etc) that is likely the least profitable, but most price sensitive?

[Perchoutofwater]

I could roll with a little waste, but what about the folk that make all those extra things and the people that clearly benefit from them (as there is a reason they are being sent out) what about the people who make the paper and the ink? what about the people who work in the landfills?

 

again - I'd be cool with less waste - I am just trying to see if I can put myself in the 'business is king' mindset you usually roll with

 

I'm for free enterprise. I don't want the government involved with business decisions Those circulars that were successful would pay to be sent out via FedEx or UPS.

 

No idea....and I bet it makes up less than .1% of their revenue, if it even exists.

 

Whats your point? That the UPS should be as profitable as Fedex, even though it is burdened with delivering regular mail (circulars, magazines, general correspondence, bills, etc) that is likely the least profitable, but most price sensitive?

 

The USPS has a monopoly. They over pay their employees. There is no telling if UPS and FedEx could compete with them or not, because the government protects the USPS and it's union workers. As a result we subsidize mail for rural areas, and pay too much for mail in urban areas. If anyone other than the government had a monopoly both of you would be howling at the moon over it. Since it is the government that is running this money loosing tax subsidized monopoly, the two of you big government guys are protective of it.

[Ursa Majoris]

I'm for free enterprise. I don't want the government involved with business decisions Those circulars that were successful would pay to be sent out via FedEx or UPS.

 

 

 

The USPS has a monopoly. They over pay their employees. There is no telling if UPS and FedEx could compete with them or not, because the government protects the USPS and it's union workers. As a result we subsidize mail for rural areas, and pay too much for mail in urban areas. If anyone other than the government had a monopoly both of you would be howling at the moon over it. Since it is the government that is running this money loosing tax subsidized monopoly, the two of you big government guys are protective of it.

UPS and FedEx are both union shops, IIRC. And according to you, everyone is overpaid regardless of the countless times evidence to the contrary has been posted.

[Perchoutofwater]

UPS and FedEx are both union shops, IIRC. And according to you, everyone is overpaid regardless of the countless times evidence to the contrary has been posted.

 

UPS and FedEx have both union and non-union employees, and even their union employees are paid less than a USPS employee of the same station. I'm not sure of what evidence you are speaking of.

[keggerz]

What does FedEx charge for 1st Class mail of a letter?

You know the answer to that question.

 

Problem is that UPS and FedEx can charge differently according to where it is going. USPS has to deliver everywhere no matter what. The two businesses are really apples and oranges but what is the solution? Cut out all that expensive, unprofitable rural deliveries? That could make a huge difference but it won't ever happen. USPS is a money loser by its very design.

Ding ding ding...winner ovah here

 

Those circulars that were successful would pay to be sent out via FedEx or UPS.

You know just how idiotic that statement is....unintended consequences...that is what you get when you shoot from the hip (more often than not)....you do away with those flyers (yes they are annoying to many of us) then you are also costing people jobs because the flyer fairy doesn't just drop them off at the USPS...I am not arguing if the USPS business model is flawed but your comparisons are truly laughable...will you ever look at things and comment without being slanted by your Republican views? Perch you truly seem like a smart guy but the schtick and hatred of anything and everything government obama/democrat is just sad, it really is.

[Duchess Jack]

I'm for free enterprise. I don't want the government involved with business decisions Those circulars that were successful would pay to be sent out via FedEx or UPS.

I'd be cool with the mail delivery 3 times a week idea.

 

with that said - there has to be a very tiny margin for the folk that do send these catalogs and stuff out. I cannot see how many would keep doing them if they had to pay non-USPS prices. There is so much of that BS that it would put thousands of people out of work and likely cost the government more. They government also sends mail. That would cost the government more - perhaps even as much as the USPS is losing now. Companies who send things to their customers like bills and such would have to pay more - and what's the catch phrase: and pass on those additional costs to their customers.

 

It takes a lot of infrastructure to be able to support mail delivery. Its not like somebody can just jump into the business and it would be hard to manage on a regional end - especially when we're talking about mass mailings like bills and such. So removing the USPS would allow the likes of FedEx and UPS to hold the counttry hostage if they wanted to raise their prices. And what would people and businesses do about it? Not too much - because it would be hard for somebody to pick up the slack. So... they could essentially kill the economy if they wanted to - no bills going out - no checks being sent - no communication between the government and people.

 

I kind of see the USPS as a nessesary cost like that of a police department, fire department, library, etc. Shoud it be run better? Sure. Again - I love the three days a week thing. Is it too important to be left to free enterprise? Heck yeah.

 

You mentioned monopolys. Methinks the biggest issue with monopolies is a company being able to charge people whatever they want for something and making the people pay because they have nowhere else to go. While the USPS might appear to be a monopoly, its a monopoly that keeps others from over-charging for a vital service.

[i_am_the_swammi]

You know just how idiotic that statement is....unintended consequences...that is what you get when you shoot from the hip (more often than not)....you do away with those flyers (yes they are annoying to many of us) then you are also costing people jobs because the flyer fairy doesn't just drop them off at the USPS...I am not arguing if the USPS business model is flawed but your comparisons are truly laughable...will you ever look at things and comment without being slanted by your Republican views? Perch you truly seem like a smart guy but the schtick and hatred of anything and everything government obama/democrat is just sad, it really is.

 

Where as I like to carry Perch for a few rounds, I like your style of going for the quick knockout.

 

We have a winner!

[rattsass]

I do a lot of business with the USPS, and while I have found a few gems working there, my perception is that the majority of postal employees are your typical "I'm union, I can't be fired, I don't give a rat's ass."

 

Where there is no incentive, there is little reason to strive for excellence. Or even mediocrity in the case of the post office. I don't want to sound like a non-union honk, but fact is, unions are a big part of the reason we no longer produce products in this country. A guy turning a bolt in a factory probably doesn't deserve 50k a year with bennies. My dad was UAW until I was a teenager, and he walked away from top pay scale and a pension because he was bored out of his mind, and felt a little guilty getting paid all that $ for sitting on his ass all day.

 

To say that I am leery of the government being in charge of healthcare is an understatement. One thing the government has proven is that they can not efficiently run ANY business. Healthcare reform should have been Insurance regs, pharm, hospital and doctor regs, and malpractice reform. Everything else would have fallen in line. I applaud Obama for finally tackling this ticking time bomb, but not in love with some of the components (including paying for illegal's heathcare) and I seriously doubt that the government will do any better in this business than they have any other.

 

But none of that makes Obama the anti-christ. The man is doing what he thinks is right. I have no questions about his motives, unlike the previous administration.

[Savage Beatings]

Cosmo Kramer tried to quit the mail once, and it brought the wrath of the Postmaster General. Don't F with Wilford Brimley!

[westvirginia]

You know the answer to that question.

 

 

Ding ding ding...winner ovah here

 

 

You know just how idiotic that statement is....unintended consequences...that is what you get when you shoot from the hip (more often than not)....you do away with those flyers (yes they are annoying to many of us) then you are also costing people jobs because the flyer fairy doesn't just drop them off at the USPS...I am not arguing if the USPS business model is flawed but your comparisons are truly laughable...will you ever look at things and comment without being slanted by your Republican views? Perch you truly seem like a smart guy but the schtick and hatred of anything and everything government obama/democrat is just sad, it really is.

 

Keg - this is one of the most lucid pro-USPS arguments I've heard, but the point still remains that all those folks could/should/would find other employment. If a business model is unsustainable, then why the hell would you want gov't to keep propping it up for some printer's job? The auto ruined the whole buggy, buggy whip, etc. industries just the way electronic services are ruining the PO. The difference is that fedgov didn't keep them afloat. They found other productive employment. Just like postal workers, printers, ink manufacturers, etc. should do.

[Caveman_Nick]

Those circulars that were successful would pay to be sent out via FedEx or UPS.

 

[westvirginia]

I do a lot of business with the USPS, and while I have found a few gems working there, my perception is that the majority of postal employees are your typical "I'm union, I can't be fired, I don't give a rat's ass."

 

Where there is no incentive, there is little reason to strive for excellence. Or even mediocrity in the case of the post office. I don't want to sound like a non-union honk, but fact is, unions are a big part of the reason we no longer produce products in this country. A guy turning a bolt in a factory probably doesn't deserve 50k a year with bennies. My dad was UAW until I was a teenager, and he walked away from top pay scale and a pension because he was bored out of his mind, and felt a little guilty getting paid all that $ for sitting on his ass all day.

 

To say that I am leery of the government being in charge of healthcare is an understatement. One thing the government has proven is that they can not efficiently run ANY business. Healthcare reform should have been Insurance regs, pharm, hospital and doctor regs, and malpractice reform. Everything else would have fallen in line. I applaud Obama for finally tackling this ticking time bomb, but not in love with some of the components (including paying for illegal's heathcare) and I seriously doubt that the government will do any better in this business than they have any other.

 

But none of that makes Obama the anti-christ. The man is doing what he thinks is right. I have no questions about his motives, unlike the previous administration.

 

You know what rat - my hat's off to you. You and I will disagree on many things. I think the obamessiah is a hard-core marxist at heart, but I still think he truly believes that's what is best for the country/people. He simply can't look at the world and say "life's not fair - that's the way it is" without attempting to make it better. He truly believes the failings of communism/socialism are due to the people in charge and that he can make it better.

 

I disagree vehemently, and will fight socialism and affronts to liberty wherever I see them, but I appreciate your honesty unlike so many others who just root for their guy without honestly looking at the shortcomings of the decisions they make.

[Perchoutofwater]

You know the answer to that question.

 

 

Ding ding ding...winner ovah here

 

 

You know just how idiotic that statement is....unintended consequences...that is what you get when you shoot from the hip (more often than not)....you do away with those flyers (yes they are annoying to many of us) then you are also costing people jobs because the flyer fairy doesn't just drop them off at the USPS...I am not arguing if the USPS business model is flawed but your comparisons are truly laughable...will you ever look at things and comment without being slanted by your Republican views? Perch you truly seem like a smart guy but the schtick and hatred of anything and everything government obama/democrat is just sad, it really is.

 

 

I'd be cool with the mail delivery 3 times a week idea.

 

with that said - there has to be a very tiny margin for the folk that do send these catalogs and stuff out. I cannot see how many would keep doing them if they had to pay non-USPS prices. There is so much of that BS that it would put thousands of people out of work and likely cost the government more. They government also sends mail. That would cost the government more - perhaps even as much as the USPS is losing now. Companies who send things to their customers like bills and such would have to pay more - and what's the catch phrase: and pass on those additional costs to their customers.

 

It takes a lot of infrastructure to be able to support mail delivery. Its not like somebody can just jump into the business and it would be hard to manage on a regional end - especially when we're talking about mass mailings like bills and such. So removing the USPS would allow the likes of FedEx and UPS to hold the counttry hostage if they wanted to raise their prices. And what would people and businesses do about it? Not too much - because it would be hard for somebody to pick up the slack. So... they could essentially kill the economy if they wanted to - no bills going out - no checks being sent - no communication between the government and people.

 

I kind of see the USPS as a nessesary cost like that of a police department, fire department, library, etc. Shoud it be run better? Sure. Again - I love the three days a week thing. Is it too important to be left to free enterprise? Heck yeah.

 

You mentioned monopolys. Methinks the biggest issue with monopolies is a company being able to charge people whatever they want for something and making the people pay because they have nowhere else to go. While the USPS might appear to be a monopoly, its a monopoly that keeps others from over-charging for a vital service.

 

A lot of tanneries went out of business when buggy whip manufacturers closed down. I don't see the mail as a vital service anymore. Between email, fax, UPS/FedEx the mail is expensive redundancy that has out lived it's usefulness. Yes, some people besides postal employees will lose their jobs. Many postal employees will go to work for private firms for more realistic compensation. Those like the ink manufacturers will lose business and some will fail just like the tannaries. Some jobs will be lost, but most will be replaced by jobs in new technology just like the guy that stirred the vat in tannin went to work on Ford's assembly line. The guy that worked for the ink manufacturer may go to work for an email server.

[Perchoutofwater]

Keg - this is one of the most lucid pro-USPS arguments I've heard, but the point still remains that all those folks could/should/would find other employment. If a business model is unsustainable, then why the hell would you want gov't to keep propping it up for some printer's job? The auto ruined the whole buggy, buggy whip, etc. industries just the way electronic services are ruining the PO. The difference is that fedgov didn't keep them afloat. They found other productive employment. Just like postal workers, printers, ink manufacturers, etc. should do.

 

I guess I need to start reading all the posts in a thread before I start to comment. That is just scary.

[Duchess Jack]

but aren't you the guy who rails on the poor buying things they don't need, like computers and cable? how is it not vital if many people would not be able to get or pay for their bills? how would the government communicate with these people (taxes, cencus, etc)

[Perchoutofwater]

but aren't you the guy who rails on the poor buying things they don't need, like computers and cable? how is it not vital if many people would not be able to get or pay for their bills? how would the government communicate with these people (taxes, cencus, etc)

 

How many people in the US do not have access to a computer, either at home, school, work, or a library? I'm actually not against people having a $400 computer and dial up. My problem is them having a $3,000 gaming system and cable if they need government assistance. There is a big difference.

[Caveman_Nick]

How many people in the US do not have access to a computer, either at home, school, work, or a library? I'm actually not against people having a $400 computer and dial up. My problem is them having a $3,000 gaming system and cable if they need government assistance. There is a big difference.

 

Most of what the average computer user does can be done with a $200 netbook and a cheap 3G plan.

[Duchess Jack]

How many people in the US do not have access to a computer, either at home, school, work, or a library? I'm actually not against people having a $400 computer and dial up. My problem is them having a $3,000 gaming system and cable if they need government assistance. There is a big difference.

I'd suggest many - but let's say the elderly.

 

As far as computers go - I have never owned a $3,000 computer. I have never seen a $3,000 computer. And the best I can tell, I don't think I have every known everybody who has owned a $3,000 computer. Replace $3,000 with $1,000 and the statements hold true. What a silly thought - that any percent of the poor worth complaining about has a $3,000 computer - but it sure does make them look like they are taking advantage of things.

 

I for one am worried about relying too much on the internet and email and stuff because we have pathetic protection from e-terrorism and if you want to attack America - you don't use a dirty bomb - you go after our computers. It doesn't take a lab, the growing of cells, spent plutonium rods or even a good education. It just takes one guy who is good with computers.

[Caveman_Nick]

And the best I can tell, I don't think I have every known everybody who has owned a $3,000 computer.

 

[bushwacked]

[Caveman_Nick]

Perch, I am with you on a lot of things, but Congress is mandated in it's powers to establish a post office and post roads. It was never intended to be a profitable endeavor. It was established early as a part of government that would cost tax dollars.

 

Maybe it should be reorganized somewhat, but I am not sure what else you are driving at.