You should read this

[cliaz]

http://money.cnn.com/2010/05/05/news/compa...=yes&hpt=C2

 

Clips from the article

 

Internal documents recently reviewed by Fortune, originally requested by Congress, show what the bill's critics predicted, and what its champions dreaded: many large companies are examining a course that was heretofore unthinkable, dumping the health care coverage they provide to their workers in exchange for paying penalty fees to the government.

 

..It would also seem to contradict President Obama's statements that Americans who like their current plans could keep them...

 

...The announcements greatly annoyed Representative Henry Waxman, who accused the companies of using the big numbers to exaggerate health care reform's burden on employers. Waxman, chairman of the House Energy and Commerce Committee, demanded that they turn over their confidential memos, and summoned their top executives for hearings....

 

..The request yielded 1,100 pages of documents from four major employers: AT&T, Verizon, Caterpillar and Deere (DE, Fortune 500). No sooner did the Democrats on the Energy Committee read them than they abruptly cancelled the hearings. On April 14, the Committee's majority staff issued a memo stating that the write downs were "proper and in accordance with SEC rules." The committee also stated that the memos took a generally sunny view of the new legislation. The documents, said the Democrats' memo, show that "the overall impact of health reform on large employers could be beneficial."

 

Nowhere in the five-page report did the majority staff mention that not one, but all four companies, were weighing the costs and benefits of dropping their coverage...

[westvirginia]

And other than the bad press, the statists don't care. They want HC controlled, provided and paid for by the state. One more way in which they will OWN you. But don't listen to my "schtick"...

[evil_gop_liars]

But don't listen to my "schtick"...

 

[tosberg34]

And other than the bad press, the statists don't care. They want HC controlled, provided and paid for by the state. One more way in which they will OWN you. But don't listen to my "schtick"...

 

It it really a surprise the the left has to lie and mislead to get to their way? They will continue to do this until they control everything that you do.

 

Getting ALL Americans on gubment controlled Health Care was ALWAYS the goal, even if they have to deceive everyone to do it.

Edited May 6, 2010 by tosberg34

[westvirginia]

It it really a surprise the the left has to lie and mislead to get to their way? They will continue to do this until they control everything that you do.

 

Getting ALL Americans on gubment controlled Health Care was ALWAYS the goal, even if they have to deceive everyone to do it.

 

Yeah, but my issue isn't just with the obamessiah. Shrub nor his Daddy has done us no favors.

[bushwacked]

They will continue to do this until they control everything that you do.

Z!O!M!G!

[Jimmy Neutron]

And other than the bad press, the statists don't care. They want HC controlled, provided and paid for by the state. One more way in which they will OWN you. But don't listen to my "schtick"...

 

This legislation was designed to do just that - in a very few years, employers and insurance companies will be painted as the ultimate bad guys, "look what they did to you - dropped your coverage/raised your rates even higher!" and people will clamour for government run health care. Ayn was a very smart woman.

[bushwacked]

This legislation was designed to do just that - in a very few years, employers and insurance companies will be painted as the ultimate bad guys, "look what they did to you - dropped your coverage/raised your rates even higher!" and people will clamour for government run health care. Ayn was a very smart woman.

 

Everything always a Socialist conspiracy.

[tosberg34]

Everything always a Socialist conspiracy.

 

You're evading the point with what you think are clever responses. Fortunately, most everybody here knows that the only person who thinks you're clever is you and you alone. Try to bring something to the thread instead of lame, drive-by posts.

 

Focus, young grasshopper.

 

Now..this article only proves what we Conservatives have been saying all along: That this HCR was meant to push everyone off of private Insurance and onto the gubment dole, yet the left still pretends that everyone will be able to keep it (private insurance). Maybe "pretends" is too light a word. I think they are very well aware that is what will happen - by design.

 

So "Socialist conspiracy" might be used by you as a punch line but what do you call the gubment taking over everything? Auto, Financial, Health Care...what's next on the list (probably Big Oil now)? Private industry is being taken down bit by bit but because it doesn't happen in one big, fell swoop you pretend that we on the right are overreacting. I'd say it's more concern than overreaction but you should be concerned as well.

Edited May 7, 2010 by tosberg34

[bushwacked]

You're evading the point with what you think are clever responses. Fortunately, most everybody here knows that the only person who thinks you're clever is you and you alone. Try to bring something to the thread instead of lame, drive-by posts.

 

Who are you?

[Brentastic]

Everything always a Socialist conspiracy.

I've always like you, BW - but you need to open your eyes to the truth. Our whole country and economy is a sham that's running out of places to hide. I'm sure even when the DOW hits 5,000 you'll still be drinking the USA kool-aid.

[bushwacked]

I've always like you, BW - but you need to open your eyes to the truth. Our whole country and economy is a sham that's running out of places to hide. I'm sure even when the DOW hits 5,000 you'll still be drinking the USA kool-aid.

 

So now if you don't believe in the a mythical Socialist agenda you don't believe in the Elliot Wave Theory?

 

Ummm, yea, I'll be eating crow when the aliens come down from planet Zoltar.

 

In all seriousness, you're confusing me for someone who doesn't have a clue. I'm well aware how precarious the global economy has been long before you considered yourself an economic guru, or frankly, even partook in these kind of discussions in here. I'm not sure what's going to happen, but I'm well aware of how close we were to disaster and that we still haven't averted it.

 

One thing I am almost certain of, you don't know near as much as you think. Believing every half-cocked conspiracy theory doesn't make you enlightened or "open to the truth." It makes you like millions of people before you and the millions more to come.

 

Hey, my offer still stands that I left open for you in the last week or so. When/if the DOW doesn't come close to 5K in the next 1.5 years, do you think the aliens will still come down to earth?

[Clubfoothead]

I certainly support a public option.

[Brentastic]

So now if you don't believe in the a mythical Socialist agenda you don't believe in the Elliot Wave Theory?

 

Ummm, yea, I'll be eating crow when the aliens come down from planet Zoltar.

 

In all seriousness, you're confusing me for someone who doesn't have a clue. I'm well aware how precarious the global economy has been long before you considered yourself an economic guru, or frankly, even partook in these kind of discussions in here. I'm not sure what's going to happen, but I'm well aware of how close we were to disaster and that we still haven't averted it.

 

One thing I am almost certain of, you don't know near as much as you think. Believing every half-cocked conspiracy theory doesn't make you enlightened or "open to the truth." It makes you like millions of people before you and the millions more to come.

 

Hey, my offer still stands that I left open for you in the last week or so. When/if the DOW doesn't come close to 5K in the next 1.5 years, do you think the aliens will still come down to earth?

You've worn out the alien jokes, it was funny the first time. For someone who claims to know so much, you sure come off as being naive.

[Clubfoothead]

I've always like you, BW - but you need to open your eyes to the truth. Our whole country and economy is a sham that's running out of places to hide.

 

You act like that's something new. Been that way for a long time.

[gbpfan1231]

So now if you don't believe in the a mythical Socialist agenda you don't believe in the Elliot Wave Theory?

 

Ummm, yea, I'll be eating crow when the aliens come down from planet Zoltar.

 

In all seriousness, you're confusing me for someone who doesn't have a clue. I'm well aware how precarious the global economy has been long before you considered yourself an economic guru, or frankly, even partook in these kind of discussions in here. I'm not sure what's going to happen, but I'm well aware of how close we were to disaster and that we still haven't averted it.

 

One thing I am almost certain of, you don't know near as much as you think. Believing every half-cocked conspiracy theory doesn't make you enlightened or "open to the truth." It makes you like millions of people before you and the millions more to come.

 

Hey, my offer still stands that I left open for you in the last week or so. When/if the DOW doesn't come close to 5K in the next 1.5 years, do you think the aliens will still come down to earth?

Stick to the Z. OMG posts - much easier to read and about as useful.

Edited May 7, 2010 by gbpfan1231

[Kid Cid]

It it really a surprise the the left has to lie and mislead to get to their way? They will continue to do this until they control everything that you do.

 

Getting ALL Americans on gubment controlled Health Care was ALWAYS the goal, even if they have to deceive everyone to do it.

Both the left and the right lie and mislead. Don't even begin to think that one side is better than the other. You may try and cast this as an evil plot by one side or the other because you are a proponent of the opposite side, but the simple fact of the matter is, our leaders do what they do, not because it is best for the American people but because it is the best for those that have put them in power. And I've got news for you, it isn't the American people that put them in power.

[wiegie]

Now..this article only proves what we Conservatives have been saying all along: That this HCR was meant to push everyone off of private Insurance and onto the gubment dole, yet the left still pretends that everyone will be able to keep it (private insurance).

Why wouldn't the people have just bought insurance from private companies if their employers stopped offering it to them?

[bushwacked]

For someone who claims to know so much, you sure come off as being naive.

 

 

I'm not sure what's going to happen, but I'm well aware of how close we were to disaster and that we still haven't averted it.

 

Now you''re confusing me with you.

[SayItAintSoJoe]

AT&T, Verizon, Caterpillar and Deere, etc...

 

Are these companies dropping health care coverage for their employees because the cost of providing the healthcare is going to go up?

 

If it's not I don't see why they would drop their employees coverage.

 

If the argument is that it's cheaper for the companies to pay the fines than to continue covering its employees, but the cost of providing that coverage hasn't gone up, then that doesn't make any sense.

 

I mean why have they been providing coverage all these years anyways. Up to now it was never mandated by the govenment so there were no fines to pay. They could have dropped everyone a long time ago without penalty.

 

Or does the new law require a level of coverage that the companies are currently not providing meaning that their cost would go up?

[bpwallace49]

Both the left and the right lie and mislead. Don't even begin to think that one side is better than the other. You may try and cast this as an evil plot by one side or the other because you are a proponent of the opposite side, but the simple fact of the matter is, our leaders do what they do, not because it is best for the American people but because it is the best for those that have put them in power. And I've got news for you, it isn't the American people that put them in power.

 

[Duchess Jack]

It it really a surprise the the left has to lie and mislead to get to their way? They will continue to do this until they control everything that you do.

 

Folk can agree or disagree on whether the left is doing this with regards the healthcare. It issue has been argued enough that if somebody has not seen the 'other side' of things now - they will be unlikely to do so any time soon.

 

...but do you honestly think that its just the left that lies to get their way? I am not trying to defend the left by pointing a finger at the right - but have you heard about this thing going on in Iraq right now that has done its part to destroy our economy and has lead to thousands of American casualties and tens of thousands of civilian casualties?

 

Perhaps we can agree that politicians lie and mislead to get there way. Its a lot more honest and complete evaluation of things.

[i_am_the_swammi]

I mean why have they been providing coverage all these years anyways. Up to now it was never mandated by the govenment so there were no fines to pay. They could have dropped everyone a long time ago without penalty.

 

...and lost valuable talent to comeptitors who did offer health benefits. Thats a very big penalty.

 

I don't have one problem with what these companies are doing...as long as they are compensating their employees for the current value of what their health coverage is worth. For instance, if the employer portion of health coverage amounts to $10K per year, I'd expect (and ask for) a $10K raise (or close to it) so I could use those funds to replace my lost coverage.

 

Moreover, I'd then have the ability to shop for my own coverage, with my own custom set of benefits. In my current job, i am covered for pregnancy, mental health, drug addiction...all items I'd gladly give up for lower costs, or better coverage in areas I want (vision, dental, etc.). Perhaps by giving the public more freedom to choose their coverages, deductibles, etc, it will be better for everyone in the long run.

[SayItAintSoJoe]

I mean why have they been providing coverage all these years anyways. Up to now it was never mandated by the govenment so there were no fines to pay. They could have dropped everyone a long time ago without penalty.

 

...and lost valuable talent to comeptitors who did offer health benefits. Thats a very big penalty.

 

So these companies have been providing health insurance to their employees all these years to reel in (or keep) valued employees. I believe that.

 

So if the cost of providing the insurance doesn't go up and companies are still interested in providing their employees with a good benefits package to attract and keep employees, all the talk about these companies dropping employee coverage doesn't quite add up.

 

The only way it's makes sense to me is if the cost of providing insurance goes up to a point that the companies can no longer afford it.

 

Is that the argument here? That the costs will go up?

[Rebellab]

Are the employees allowed to pay a portion of the insurance with the new govt mandates? Or are companies only mandated to provide the opportunity to purchase health ins? The reason I ask is what if the employer hasn't been paying for all of the coverage, the employee is paying a portion. Say the employee pays for $75 of the premium and the employer pays the rest. Someone like John Deere with thousands of employees, this would add up if they had to cover the extra $75 for all employees. In this case I can see them discontinuing paying a portion of the premium and having the employee get it themselves.

 

I have no idea if this is the case just asking questions and speculating.