Exactly what they want

[detlef]

interesting aside I read this morning. tough situation. its not hard to understand the theater owner's concerns.

 

ATLANTA -- A couple of local businessmen are suing Atlanta’s Fox Theatre claiming racial and religious discrimination.

 

Basheer Jones and Nardin Jihad wanted to host a concert at the Fox on Saturday, Sept. 11. The concert would celebrate the end of their Muslim holy month of Ramadan, the men said. But the Fox said denied their application in March and that led to the lawsuit.

 

Jones said a Fox Theatre official told him, “You know, you guys are Muslim, and it’s September 11 and there’s going to be some security issues so we don’t think that it would be best for us as a company to rent the facility out to you.”

 

Fox Theatre officials told Channel 2 Action News that they informed the promoters that they already had two prior requests for events this Saturday and that they would rent the venue to the Muslim group on another date.

 

The concert will now be held Sunday, Sept. 12 at the Cobb Energy Performing Arts Centre.

Logically, if dude had others who wanted to book the place, why didn't he just stick with that story?

 

I mean, I completely understand the guy's perspective but I just don't know why he didn't take the easy way out.

 

Mind you, rereading the post, I'm not sure if he's saying that's all he said and the other guys are saying he said it was about 9/11. Curious though, it looks like they went with the 12th anyway.

[dmarc117]

how about the media doing something right for once......

 

DO NOT COVER THIS

[Big John]

 

He just cancelled those plans

[evil_gop_liars]

He just cancelled those plans

 

:h8juice:The M00slims win :h8juice:

[moneymakers]

Will he or won't he? Pastor Terry Jones announced yesterday that he would cancel his plan to burn the Qur'an on 9-11. He claimed that a Muslim leader promised to relocate the proposed Islamic center and mosque near Ground Zero.

 

Then came word that no such promise had been made, so Jones decided, "As of right now, we are not canceling the event, but we are suspending it." He did not say whether the burning could still be held tomorrow. Meanwhile, a church in Topeka, Kansas said yesterday that it would burn the Qur'an and an American flag on Saturday.

 

I wrote an essay Wednesday in response to Jones' plan to burn the Qur'an. The more I've thought about this issue, the more concerned I have become. I have now concluded that the Dove World Outreach Center's plan is not just a mistake—it is a tragic violation of biblical Christianity. Such an action would conflict with the clear word and will of God in three ways.

 

First, it would violate the biblical response to other religions. Jesus did not condemn the religions of his day. His followers did not attack Roman temples or Greek idols. To the contrary, Paul observed that the people of Athens were "very religious" (Acts 17:22), then used their faith as a bridge to present the Christian message. Apostolic Christians sought to build bridges of understanding with other faiths, not ridicule or condemn them.

 

Second, this plan would violate the biblical charge to be good citizens. Christians are commanded to obey and support the governing authorities (Romans 13:1; 1 Peter 2:13-17). The church's actions would place our soldiers at greater risk, a fact Gen. David Petraeus emphasized when he warned that images of a burning Qur'an would be employed by extremists to incite violence. A radical Muslim cleric in Afghanistan is already using the church's plans to inflame passions against America. The Taliban is distributing handwritten leaflets south of Kabul urging Muslims to avenge any burning of the Qur'an.

 

A broad spectrum of political leaders, from President Obama to former Alaska governor Sarah Palin, have stated their opposition. Americans and especially American soldiers will be endangered if the church proceeds. Such reckless behavior stands in total opposition to the word and will of God.

 

Third, this plan will severely damage Christian efforts to share the love of Jesus with Muslims. Our Lord taught us to love our neighbor as ourselves (Matthew 22:39). How would we respond if Muslims staged a rally to burn the Bible?

 

On the eve of 9-11, I believe Jesus wants us to pray for Muslims to know his love. Then he wants us to show them that love in ours. Will you join me in asking our Father to redeem this tragic weekend for his glory and our good?

[detlef]

Long, but entertaining, and oh-so-true.

[cre8tiff]

Long, but entertaining, and oh-so-true.

 

No freakin doubt.

 

We've lived through many times where politics are oppositional, but the present day is hands down the craziest group of conspiracies to date. The lunatic fringe is in the driver's seat for a certain party.

 

Trust me, there are left wingnuts, too. But nothing like this.

 

What the tea party is doing to the right is like watching cancer eat away a healthy person.

[driveby]

No freakin doubt.

 

We've lived through many times where politics are oppositional, but the present day is hands down the craziest group of conspiracies to date. The lunatic fringe is in the driver's seat for a certain party.

 

Trust me, there are left wingnuts, too. But nothing like this.

 

What the tea party is doing to the right is like watching cancer eat away a healthy person.

[Perchoutofwater]

No freakin doubt.

 

We've lived through many times where politics are oppositional, but the present day is hands down the craziest group of conspiracies to date. The lunatic fringe is in the driver's seat for a certain party.

 

Trust me, there are left wingnuts, too. But nothing like this.

 

What the tea party is doing to the right is like watching cancer eat away a healthy person.

 

Where does the T.E.A. party come into that story? I know of nobody that support this idiot preacher.

[detlef]

Where does the T.E.A. party come into that story? I know of nobody that support this idiot preacher.

FWIW, the story covers both the dipchight burning books and the whole hysteria about the "ground zero mosque". Which, btw, I'm becoming less and less sympathetic to those who are outraged by it. Essentially for the following reasons:

 

#1) "Ground zero mosque" is a blatant exaggeration aimed to rile people up. Because it is neither a mosque, nor is it "at ground zero". However, I'm guessing "Muslim community center build a few blocks away from ground zero" wouldn't cause quite the uproar, even though it's actually what is being built.

 

#2) Nobody, and I mean, nobody has answered a simple question. How many blocks away is far enough? Not here when I asked (I got silly answers like, "however many blocks it is to Egypt") and not when someone in that article brought up the same question at a city meeting. My only guess for why nobody will answer this is that, once they do, they'll realize how silly it is that they're fired up in the first place. Because there's really just one right answer, "Just not right at ground zero. Not on ground zero, and not staring right at it." Once you actually throw out a number, then you'll realize that it is completely arbitrary. Four blocks? Well, what magically happens between 2 and 4 blocks that makes any freaking difference at all? Not anywhere in lower Manhattan? Well now you're just being a dick.

 

#3) People like you and Palin made the inane comparison between burning holy books and building a religious community center two blocks away from ground zero.

 

So, there you have it.

[SEC=UGA]

FWIW, the story covers both the dipchight burning books and the whole hysteria about the "ground zero mosque". Which, btw, I'm becoming less and less sympathetic to those who are outraged by it. Essentially for the following reasons:

 

#1) "Ground zero mosque" is a blatant exaggeration aimed to rile people up. Because it is neither a mosque, nor is it "at ground zero". However, I'm guessing "Muslim community center build a few blocks away from ground zero" wouldn't cause quite the uproar, even though it's actually what is being built.

 

#2) Nobody, and I mean, nobody has answered a simple question. How many blocks away is far enough? Not here when I asked (I got silly answers like, "however many blocks it is to Egypt") and not when someone in that article brought up the same question at a city meeting. My only guess for why nobody will answer this is that, once they do, they'll realize how silly it is that they're fired up in the first place. Because there's really just one right answer, "Just not right at ground zero. Not on ground zero, and not staring right at it." Once you actually throw out a number, then you'll realize that it is completely arbitrary. Four blocks? Well, what magically happens between 2 and 4 blocks that makes any freaking difference at all? Not anywhere in lower Manhattan? Well now you're just being a dick.

 

#3) People like you and Palin made the inane comparison between burning holy books and building a religious community center two blocks away from ground zero.

 

So, there you have it.

 

#1 - Yes and no. What got the attention was the original name of Park 51 being the Cordoba house, which depending on how one looked at it had some "conquerer" undertones. Secondly, wherever one looked initially, including "unbiased" sources, this was not a "community center" as such, it was a Muslim community center and it was initially slated to have only Islamic prayer space.

 

#2 - I answered your question honestly and with a hard number, you overlooked that and thus I did not feel the need to elaborate. But, since you asked again, it needs to be at least a mile or further away (I think I said three miles, actually, but have reassessed on the following explanation). A mile in NYC will put you in a different world and thus is far enough away. Where it is currently is too close as major debris from the planes and the Towers struck this location, that is too close.

 

#3 - There isn't much of a difference, one action angers 70% of Americans the other action angers a certain % of Muslims. At least the idiot that wanted to burn Qur'ans didn't kill anyone.

[Ursa Majoris]

What got the attention was the original name of Park 51 being the Cordoba house, which depending on how one looked at it had some "conquerer" undertones.

Because Cordoba in Spain was the ancient capital of an Islamic caliphate back when the Moors ran Spain? I must admit I hadn't put those two things together at all, not that it makes any difference.

[untateve]

#3 - There isn't much of a difference, one action angers 70% of Americans the other action angers a certain % of Muslims. At least the idiot that wanted to burn Qur'ans didn't kill anyone.

 

Wait--so the way we are going to measure the difference in acts/behaviors is how many people the action makes others angry?

 

[hyperbole to make a point] ]So, could I say that there is not much difference between slapping my wife and killing my child? After all, both actions would likely make the majority of people who read about them angry.

 

Also, are you saying the muslims who want to build the community center killed people? Or are you saying that there is no difference between the those who perpetrated 9/11 and those who want to build a community center because they are all muslim?

[detlef]

#1 - Yes and no. What got the attention was the original name of Park 51 being the Cordoba house, which depending on how one looked at it had some "conquerer" undertones. Secondly, wherever one looked initially, including "unbiased" sources, this was not a "community center" as such, it was a Muslim community center and it was initially slated to have only Islamic prayer space.

 

#2 - I answered your question honestly and with a hard number, you overlooked that and thus I did not feel the need to elaborate. But, since you asked again, it needs to be at least a mile or further away (I think I said three miles, actually, but have reassessed on the following explanation). A mile in NYC will put you in a different world and thus is far enough away. Where it is currently is too close as major debris from the planes and the Towers struck this location, that is too close.

 

#3 - There isn't much of a difference, one action angers 70% of Americans the other action angers a certain % of Muslims. At least the idiot that wanted to burn Qur'ans didn't kill anyone.

#1 Like Ursa, I did not draw that connection at all and would be surprised if the majority of those outraged did either. What got my attention was that apparently, "there was a mosque being built on the ground zero site" and I thought that seemed like a dumb idea. I shutter to think how many stopped right there and based their opinion on that.

 

#2 My apologies about overlooking your response. None the less, I wonder how many full-fledged mosques are currently within a mile of that site and do think a mile qualifies in the "not in lower Manhattan" deal which I do think is rather excessive.

 

#3 That people are outraged could simply mean they're looking for an excuse to be pissed. Because the facts are simple. One is a blatant attack on a particular religion. One perhaps shows a lack of sensitivity but is not, in and of itself, an attack on anything. Nothing is being destroyed in the building of this center. Christians make a great effort separating themselves from the whack jobs who do things in the name of their church and yet are quick to lump every Muslim in with the guys who committed this heinous act. That seems rather hypocritical. After all, considering the pedophiles in the Catholic church, should we be outraged when a Catholic church gets built anywhere near an elementary school?

[SEC=UGA]

#1 Like Ursa, I did not draw that connection at all and would be surprised if the majority of those outraged did either. What got my attention was that apparently, "there was a mosque being built on the ground zero site" and I thought that seemed like a dumb idea. I shutter to think how many stopped right there and based their opinion on that.

 

#2 My apologies about overlooking your response. None the less, I wonder how many full-fledged mosques are currently within a mile of that site and do think a mile qualifies in the "not in lower Manhattan" deal which I do think is rather excessive.

 

#3 That people are outraged could simply mean they're looking for an excuse to be pissed. Because the facts are simple. One is a blatant attack on a particular religion. One perhaps shows a lack of sensitivity but is not, in and of itself, an attack on anything. Nothing is being destroyed in the building of this center. Christians make a great effort separating themselves from the whack jobs who do things in the name of their church and yet are quick to lump every Muslim in with the guys who committed this heinous act. That seems rather hypocritical. After all, considering the pedophiles in the Catholic church, should we be outraged when a Catholic church gets built anywhere near an elementary school?

 

#2 - Currently, meaning pre-existing, is one thing... A NEW Islamic communtiy center could be easily construed as an affront, or a thumbing of the nose, at Americans. Would you be satisfied with the statement then, that they need to not build something of this kind within the major debris field of the WTC (probably not, would be my guess)

 

#3 - You are correct, to an extent. There is still that correlation to many people in the US that Muslims blew up the (which incidentally is the case) WTC and for a group of Muslims, funded by money from Muslim nations, to build near a site where representatives from that group perpetrated this crime is a very insensitive thing to do. Simple as that.

[Ursa Majoris]

#2 - Currently, meaning pre-existing, is one thing... A NEW Islamic communtiy center could be easily construed as an affront, or a thumbing of the nose, at Americans.

I think you have touched upon one of the most virulent and, IMO, dangerous aspects of modern society - everybody seems to want to feel offended and if they don't, they're willing to push the boundaries of what offends them until they are suitably offended.

 

Whatever happened to live and let live, thick skins, etc? I mean, what the frack is wrong with people that they always have be victims of something?

[SEC=UGA]

Wait--so the way we are going to measure the difference in acts/behaviors is how many people the action makes others angry?

 

[hyperbole to make a point] ]So, could I say that there is not much difference between slapping my wife and killing my child? After all, both actions would likely make the majority of people who read about them angry.

 

Also, are you saying the muslims who want to build the community center killed people? Or are you saying that there is no difference between the those who perpetrated 9/11 and those who want to build a community center because they are all muslim?

 

Where did I say that or imply that. I was simply stating that each of these acts is ignorant because prevailing wisdom should tell an individual that by doing this certain action I am going to piss off a lot of people. Am I saying that they shouldn't do these things because it makes people mad, no. I do diaper dirt all the time that pisses people off, f 'em. What I am saying is that each of these individuals should expect some backlash from their actions and not act all suprised that people are pissed off.

 

Your hyperbole is waaaay off base as I was not using a quantity or % of people angered as justification for not doing something or using said numbers to ascribe a "evilness value" to either action. If you think I was trying to quantify it, sorry I mislead you.

 

I am not saying that the Muslims who want to build the center killed people. I am simply stating that the people who are against the park51 building being built do see a correlation between those who took down the WTC and those building the mosque.

 

By the way, other than my contention that it shouldn't be in the major debris field of the WTC disaster, I was not expressing my opinon on the merits of any of this. Rather, I was expressing the arguments of those that are against it. YOu want my opinion I'll give it to you.

 

I don't thinkt here is any correlation between the groups building Park 51 and those that attacked the WTC. I think they have every right in the world to build it. I do not think it is wise of them to build it and od believe that it is inconsiderate due to it being a gathering place intended mainly for Muslims. Believe me, there are many, many, Muslims that agree with my sentiment.

 

Secondly, the kook that wanted to burn the Qur'an is one of the most idiotic individuals on the face of this earth. No doubt just as crazy as those who want to burn bibles or torahs. that is all.

[SEC=UGA]

I think you have touched upon one of the most virulent and, IMO, dangerous aspects of modern society - everybody seems to want to feel offended and if they don't, they're willing to push the boundaries of what offends them until they are suitably offended.

 

Whatever happened to live and let live, thick skins, etc? I mean, what the frack is wrong with people that they always have be victims of something?

 

Good question.

[Pope Flick]

#3 - There isn't much of a difference, one action angers 70% of Americans the other action angers a certain % of Muslims. At least the idiot that wanted to burn Qur'ans didn't kill anyone.

 

 

100% Wrong. A demonstration of religious tolerance (building the mosque) is diametrically opposed to a demonstration of religious intolerance (burning the Quran). It is just that simple.

 

Where's the outrage at Catholic Churches being built near elementary schools?

[detlef]

#2 - Currently, meaning pre-existing, is one thing... A NEW Islamic communtiy center could be easily construed as an affront, or a thumbing of the nose, at Americans. Would you be satisfied with the statement then, that they need to not build something of this kind within the major debris field of the WTC (probably not, would be my guess)

 

#3 - You are correct, to an extent. There is still that correlation to many people in the US that Muslims blew up the (which incidentally is the case) WTC and for a group of Muslims, funded by money from Muslim nations, to build near a site where representatives from that group perpetrated this crime is a very insensitive thing to do. Simple as that.

IMO, crossing the line in terms of placement would be that, if you were standing at the site of the twin towers, you could see the religious center. It should certainly not be able to actually "cast a shadow" on the area. I understand that debris hit where it is, so I can see how others would feel that space should be off-limits.

 

As for the other. Like I said, insensitive is one thing. That's like making a "your momma" joke around a guy who's mom died recently. Probably not cool. What dude in Florida is doing is is like walking up to a guy, spiting in his face, and saying his mom takes it in the butt for money.

[Rovers]

The maniacs are going to be outraged no matter what we do or don't do. They will attack us in the name of their god anyway. It doesn't matter if we fight them in the third world countries or don't. It doesn't matter if some nut burns their holy book. They will use an excuse, and in the absence of an excuse, they will make one up. They biuld a victory mosque in the old shadow of the WTC. Why? Looking for an excuse. If they are allowed to build it, they will find another excuse to mass murder people.

 

They are maniacs. They have and will continue to kill. They don't need any real reason. It's what they do.

[Pope Flick]

The maniacs are going to be outraged no matter what we do or don't do. They will attack us in the name of their god anyway. It doesn't matter if we fight them in the third world countries or don't. It doesn't matter if some nut burns their holy book. They will use an excuse, and in the absence of an excuse, they will make one up. They biuld a victory mosque in the old shadow of the WTC. Why? Looking for an excuse. If they are allowed to build it, they will find another excuse to mass murder people.

 

They are maniacs. They have and will continue to kill. They don't need any real reason. It's what they do.

 

 

So the people building the mosque attacked the WTC? Wow.

[tbimm]

Not sure if it has been mentioned in this thread at all but there was a Muslim community center in one of the towers. Muslims who had nothing to do with the massacre were killed as well.

 

I think the community center story is something that hits home for many of us. Does the idea of that happening make me all fuzzy and warm inside? Nope. Do I think it is another reason for people to bitch about something? Yup. Do I think it is very helpful to Fox News to fill air time? Yup.

 

As far as the Quran burning preacher?

He is an attention seeking whore. Simple as that. He got what he wanted lot's and lot's of attention.

Whether he ever intended to do it or not doesn't matter. Just getting the word out there that he was going to, created a stir both here and in the Muslim nations.

It wouldn't surprise me one bit if we hear 6 months from now that this guy has been screwing hookers and goats on his congregations dime.

[Rovers]

So the people building the mosque attacked the WTC? Wow.

 

Read much?

[Pope Flick]

Read much?

 

 

It's what you said.