pig devilz Posted December 13, 2010 Share Posted December 13, 2010 the fish rots from the head down....RR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overworkedirish Posted December 13, 2010 Share Posted December 13, 2010 the fish rots from the head down....RR Oy... dude, not a good metaphor when the Dolphins are involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pig devilz Posted December 13, 2010 Share Posted December 13, 2010 oops. yer probably right. Â The fat sob rots from the head down......better? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overworkedirish Posted December 13, 2010 Share Posted December 13, 2010 oops. yer probably right. Â The fat sob rots from the head down......better? I was gonna go with "liposuction patient," but that works too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pig devilz Posted December 13, 2010 Share Posted December 13, 2010 maybe FUTURE patient........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovers Posted December 13, 2010 Share Posted December 13, 2010 What the Miami players "strategy" was is completely irrelevant to what he did. Â As for all of this, "only if he had seriously injured him, should he be severely punished" and "it wasn't his intent to injure him", I don't think it shouldn't matter much at all that he didn't end up seriously injuring him, nor do I care what his intent was... Does the NFL base helmet-to-helmet and other fines on whether a player got actually hurt in that instance? Does it have to malicious? As far I'm aware, it's all solely based on the "what if", because their goal is to prevent injuries (particularly ones that are easily prevented like this, and should never happen)... Â So yes, I agree with others that he should pay a heavy penalty for what could have happened. This isn't just some matter of negligence. It's a matter of his actions... It is FAR different than players who are physically handling each-other all game and taking shots, to let their emotions get the best of them and make a dirty play.... It's another thing alltogether when a coach, who is supposed to be held to higher standard and in no way shape or form supposed to interfere or even touch anyone on the field, initiates contact that COULD unnecessarily end someone's career. Â If you don't think that's a big deal and completely different from what players are paid to do, then yes, I'm sorry, you're being a homer. If I were a Jets fan, I'd be distancing myself as far as possible from this guy's behavior. Â My bringing up the rules is really a side bar topic, and in no way was posted to excuse the coach from what he did. I do think the NFL might need to look at this rule however, just how far out of bouind should gunners be allowed to run? Might they even look for a sideline interference call? Can the run outside the white apron and expect to have the sidelines clear out for that player? It's a sidebar... not at the crux of the issue regarding the coach's actions. Rules get changed when chit like this happens. I just raise the point that the rules might beneift from some changes. There is clearly room for more clarity on sideline interference, is there not? Â Like it or not, when the NFL rules on stuff like this, any injury that comes as a result does affect the disciplinary penalties. That's just what history says, and it isn't something I particularly agree with. If the kid got hurt, yes, I think whatever penalites that will come down would be harsher if the player did get hurt. An observation, not my opinion. What would have happened to Burress if that bullet hit someone else instead of his own leg? Or even killed someone else? Should Burress have been tried for attempted murder, or for the gun charges he did get hit with? Yes, like it or not, this is how it wortks. Â Where did I EVER say this was NOT a BIG deal? I think Alosi should be fired and fined. I don't think he should go to jail. I'm a homer? Based on those opinions? What the flock? Â I am often amazed at how a person in this forum can say something quite succinctly as I did here, and then have another poster attempt to change what I said, and redeifine my position. READ what the flock I said, and stop porjecting into fiction. Â Alosi should be fired and fined. Banned from the NFL. I think that is penalty enough, and being a Jets fan has ZERO to do with that opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overworkedirish Posted December 13, 2010 Share Posted December 13, 2010 What would have happened to Burress if that bullet hit someone else instead of his own leg? Or even killed someone else? Should Burress have been tried for attempted murder, or for the gun charges he did get hit with? Yes, like it or not, this is how it wortks. Wow. I find your analogies to be extremely poor in terms of illustrating comparable situations. I don't even know where to start with this one, so I just won't. Â Alosi should be fired and fined. Banned from the NFL. I think that is penalty enough, and being a Jets fan has ZERO to do with that opinion. Could have just said that from the beginning instead of jerking around the intent issue and white apron "sidebar." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
electricrelish Posted December 13, 2010 Share Posted December 13, 2010 Alosi should be fired and fined. Banned from the NFL. I think that is penalty enough, and being a Jets fan has ZERO to do with that opinion. Banned from the NFL? Were you being sarcastic? That's over the top. It is the Dolphins that we're talking about Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delusions of grandeur Posted December 13, 2010 Share Posted December 13, 2010 My bringing up the rules is really a side bar topic, and in no way was posted to excuse the coach from what he did. I do think the NFL might need to look at this rule however, just how far out of bouind should gunners be allowed to run? Might they even look for a sideline interference call? Can the run outside the white apron and expect to have the sidelines clear out for that player? It's a sidebar... not at the crux of the issue regarding the coach's actions. Rules get changed when chit like this happens. I just raise the point that the rules might beneift from some changes. There is clearly room for more clarity on sideline interference, is there not? Â Like it or not, when the NFL rules on stuff like this, any injury that comes as a result does affect the disciplinary penalties. That's just what history says, and it isn't something I particularly agree with. If the kid got hurt, yes, I think whatever penalites that will come down would be harsher if the player did get hurt. An observation, not my opinion. What would have happened to Burress if that bullet hit someone else instead of his own leg? Or even killed someone else? Should Burress have been tried for attempted murder, or for the gun charges he did get hit with? Yes, like it or not, this is how it wortks. Â Where did I EVER say this was NOT a BIG deal? I think Alosi should be fired and fined. I don't think he should go to jail. I'm a homer? Based on those opinions? What the flock? Â I am often amazed at how a person in this forum can say something quite succinctly as I did here, and then have another poster attempt to change what I said, and redeifine my position. READ what the flock I said, and stop porjecting into fiction. Â Alosi should be fired and fined. Banned from the NFL. I think that is penalty enough, and being a Jets fan has ZERO to do with that opinion. Â You just said that the more you read this, the less you think he should be punished. I disagree. You said it's no different than what players like Haynesworth have done. I disagree. I am not putting words in your mouth, just trying to explain why the more I read this thread, the MORE I think he should be punished. Â Maybe that's the case that penalties are worse if someone gets hurt, but I don't think it lightens them if they don't, or the guy didn't "intend" to hurt him... Well, he did, because of his unnecessary and unwarranted action. Â As for Plaxico, he got the penalty for negligence with a discharged firearm where he wasn't supposed to have it... I'm not trying to defend what he did by any means, but Plaxico would have had to waive the gun around in the air and fire off shots, for me to really think that's a good analogy... This wasn't being negligent or stupid. It was not passive. It was an action to take a player's legs out from under him, regardless of what his intentions were. Â I honestly don't understand what we're even arguing about anymore. It seems like you want to defend the guy without defending the guy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovers Posted December 13, 2010 Share Posted December 13, 2010 Wow. I find your analogies to be extremely poor in terms of illustrating comparable situations. I don't even know where to start with this one, so I just won't.  Could have just said that from the beginning instead of jerking around the intent issue and white apron "sidebar."  The Burress reference is just to prove a point... the consquences (in this case we're talking about a potential injury) DO have a major influence on penalties, in courts of law and in the NFL. Simple concept, one I expect you will be unable to grasp. It was not an analogy.  Intent always plays a part as well. Haynesworth attempted to injure. You seem absolutely certain that this coach intended to injure, and I see no basis in fact, replays or statements that would make me inclined to even suspect it. That is YOUR blind homerism at work.  So, discussing how the rule works, and how it might be ameneded to preclude such a future event should not have been brought up at all in this thread you opinion? Flock your opinion.  Right from the start I said the coach should be disciplined, I never said otherwise but I LMAO at yokels who thing jail time would be appropriate. You were one of them. Then you backpedaled. I never back pedalled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovers Posted December 13, 2010 Share Posted December 13, 2010 You just said that the more you read this, the less you think he should be punished. I disagree. You said it's no different than what players like Haynesworth have done. I disagree. I am not putting words in your mouth, just trying to explain why the more I read this thread, the MORE I think he should be punished. Maybe that's the case that penalties are worse if someone gets hurt, but I don't think it lightens them if they don't, or the guy didn't "intend" to hurt him... Well, he did, because of his unnecessary and unwarranted action.  As for Plaxico, he got the penalty for negligence with a discharged firearm where he wasn't supposed to have it... I'm not trying to defend what he did by any means, but Plaxico would have had to waive the gun around in the air and fire off shots, for me to really think that's a good analogy... This wasn't being negligent or stupid. It was not passive. It was an action to take a player's legs out from under him, regardless of what his intentions were.  I honestly don't understand what we're even arguing about anymore. It seems like you want to defend the guy without defending the guy...  The flocking Miami homer did get to me... I just wanted to piss him off... and if the penalties are less than what I think they should be, this newbie's head is gonna explode. I would enjoy that.  All I have tried to do was to defend him insomuch as I don't beleive for one second he intended to injure the player, I railed at the idea of calling it an assault. People even said jail time is in order.... so on those issues, I have argued, but I haven't ONCE defended what he did. I just tried to be a voice of reason amoungst a lynch mob. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delusions of grandeur Posted December 13, 2010 Share Posted December 13, 2010 (edited) The flocking Miami homer did get to me... I just wanted to piss him off... and if the penalties are less than what I think they should be, this newbie's head is gonna explode. I would enjoy that. Â All I have tried to do was to defend him insomuch as I don't beleive for one second he intended to injure the player, I railed at the idea of calling it an assault. People even said jail time is in order.... so on those issues, I have argued, but I haven't ONCE defended what he did. I just tried to be a voice of reason amoungst a lynch mob. Â I need to stop getting in the middle of these heated division rivalries.... No disrespect intended. Â But if the Jets don't at least fire the guy, then I can honestly say his head won't be the only one that explodes... I just don't think there's any "intent" that can justify doing that, that's all... Edited December 13, 2010 by delusions of granduer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovers Posted December 13, 2010 Share Posted December 13, 2010 Based on press conferences, the Jets are apparently talking with Godell about penalties, and they will likely announce discipliary penalties together. It's kind of new ground. This coach prior to this was very well liked and respected, but I don't think that will save him, nor should it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'canes2004 Posted December 13, 2010 Share Posted December 13, 2010 The flocking Miami homer did get to me... I just wanted to piss him off... and if the penalties are less than what I think they should be, this newbie's head is gonna explode. I would enjoy that. Â You're alright for a f'ing Jets fan I tell ya. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overworkedirish Posted December 13, 2010 Share Posted December 13, 2010 The Burress reference is just to prove a point... the consquences (in this case we're talking about a potential injury) DO have a major influence on penalties, in courts of law and in the NFL. Simple concept, one I expect you will be unable to grasp. It was not an analogy. That's... exactly what an analogy is: 1. a similarity between like features of two things, on which a comparison may be based. And your Burress analogy is a very poor one. Â So, discussing how the rule works, and how it might be ameneded to preclude such a future event should not have been brought up at all in this thread you opinion? Flock your opinion. Glad I'm not the drunk one tonight... Â Right from the start I said the coach should be disciplined, I never said otherwise but I LMAO at yokels who thing jail time would be appropriate. You were one of them. Then you backpedaled. Go back and read through the posts again, bud. I know you won't, but I really didn't say anything about jail time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'canes2004 Posted December 13, 2010 Share Posted December 13, 2010 I'm kinda going with the punishment should fit the crime in this instance. Luckily Carroll wasn't seriously hurt on the play. Because of that reason and only that reason, I don't think the guy should lose his job. A hefty fine, public apology and maybe some kind of probation would sit well with me and I hate the Jets like no other organization in professional sports. I hate to see anyone lose his job at this time of year. There has way too much of that already going on in this country and his family probably needs him and his income. Now if Carroll was seriously injured, I would think more should be done, firing civil suit etc... Â It's over, time to let it go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riffraff Posted December 14, 2010 Share Posted December 14, 2010 Per Rotoworld:  Jets suspended strength coach Sal Alosi for the remainder of the regular season and playoffs without pay for tripping Dolphins gunner Nolan Carroll in Week 14. He was also fined $25,000, which is a significant amount for a strength coach. Alosi apologized for his actions Monday, saying he "wasn't thinking" when he stuck out his leg out to prevent Carroll from covering a punt. "Nothing went through my head," said Alosi. "I feel terrible." He's lucky Carroll wasn't seriously injured. He's also lucky to still have his job Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overworkedirish Posted December 14, 2010 Share Posted December 14, 2010 Per Rotoworld: I guess I'm satisfied with this. As long as he's actually paying it and doesn't receive a mysterious bonus from Sexy Rexy. Â I've additionally heard it reported on ESPN about the NFL sending out a memo regarding lining up coaches on the sideline the way they did. Apparently staff/coaches must be behind the "second" white line behind the white apron during punt returns. I'll be interested to see how that angle develops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keggerz Posted December 14, 2010 Author Share Posted December 14, 2010 (edited) I guess I'm satisfied with this. As long as he's actually paying it and doesn't receive a mysterious bonus from Sexy Rexy. I've additionally heard it reported on ESPN about the NFL sending out a memo regarding lining up coaches on the sideline the way they did. Apparently staff/coaches must be behind the "second" white line behind the white apron during punt returns. I'll be interested to see how that angle develops. Honestly, I hope that the team or someone does mysteriously pick it up for him....if they felt firing him wasn't warranted then so be it but they did suspend him so he took a hit in the wallet..the fine should go to the organization since they have to be accountable for their employees...$25k is a HUGH fine for a guy that probably isn't even making $100k/year...what he did was wrong and I do think the fine and suspension are warranted but just look at what guys get fined that play the game...the $25-$50K you see them fined is like pennies on the dollar to them...but in the end he is lucky to have a job...I just hate how the league coddles the Dolphins when they whine about something. Edited December 14, 2010 by keggerz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overworkedirish Posted December 14, 2010 Share Posted December 14, 2010 Honestly, I hope that the team or someone does mysteriously pick it up for him....if they felt firing him wasn't warranted then so be it but they did suspend him so he took a hit in the wallet..the fine should go to the organization since they have to be accountable for their employees...$25k is a HUGH fine for a guy that probably isn't even making $100k/year...what he did was wrong and I do think the fine and suspension are warranted but just look at what guys get fined that play the game...the $25-$50K you see them fined is like pennies on the dollar to them...but in the end he is lucky to have a job...I just hate how the league coddles the Dolphins when they whine about something. To evaluate the amount for a fine based on salary is classist. I'm sure the NFL will accept a "payment plan" for Alosi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keggerz Posted December 14, 2010 Author Share Posted December 14, 2010 To evaluate the amount for a fine based on salary is classist. I'm sure the NFL will accept a "payment plan" for Alosi. I know what it is...I still think it is to much...and fwiw, I don't think the fine schedule for players is near enough to make a difference for what they get fined for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overworkedirish Posted December 14, 2010 Share Posted December 14, 2010 I know what it is...I still think it is to much...and fwiw, I don't think the fine schedule for players is near enough to make a difference for what they get fined for. I agree SOMETIMES. I think the league is very inconsistent with the fine amounts they dole out, and that's a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keggerz Posted December 14, 2010 Author Share Posted December 14, 2010 I agree SOMETIMES. I think the league is very inconsistent with the fine amounts they dole out, and that's a problem. league has a fine schedule that is spelled out in their rules;  2010 NFL Rulebook  Link to 2010 NFL Schedule of Fines Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overworkedirish Posted December 14, 2010 Share Posted December 14, 2010 league has a fine schedule that is spelled out in their rules; 2010 NFL Rulebook  Link to 2010 NFL Schedule of Fines Fines listed are minimums unless otherwise specified. Other forms of discipline, including higher fines, suspension and banishment may also be imposed, based on the circumstances of the particular violation. First offenses are subject to severe discipline up to and including suspension.  Like I said, they make fines whatever they want. It's arbitrary and inconsistent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redrumjuice Posted December 14, 2010 Share Posted December 14, 2010 Like I said, they make fines whatever they want. It's arbitrary and inconsistent. Â Â So what? It's none of your damn business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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