Shouldn't the parents step in?

[The Holy Roller]

This girl needs a pet. Take her to the pound and let her pick out a kitten to take home. See if the parents notice. If not, repeat. Eventually they will and, voila, a conversation will begin.

[Big Country]

If you feed a stray cat, it will come back. Keep feeding it, and it will stay. Pretty soon, it is your pet.

 

 

While the parents perhaps should say something, it seems that your wife is as much at "fault", for lack of a better word, for this situation. She is the one letting the kid come in as often as she does, rather than sending her home occassionally, she is the one that has apparently picked her up and taken her on outings (you mentioned taking her to the farmer's market), etc. You and your wife are the adults in this particular relationship and need to take some if not all of the accountability on the terms of the relationship. It sounds as though she is not getting the attention she desires at home (not even neccessarily a reflection of bad parenting, especially if as you say she has two older brothers and her father likely work's extended hours as a doctor), and your wife has provided the attention that she desires.

 

I think key is to make it clear that in no way is she to call your wife on the cell phone. She can come over to see if there are chores she can help with or if your wife wants to spend some time with her. Your wife needs to be willing to say no at times.

[matt770]

either that or the kid enjoys herself and the parent doesn't want to crap on that if she doesn't have to, and she assumes mrs detlef will set any boundaries she deems appropriate.

 

now it's true that some people are bad at saying no, and in reconizing that fact the parent should probably check in from time to time without the kid around to make sure all of this is OK and her kid's not becoming a nuisance. but I don't think it's THAT insane or ridiculous to assume that it's ok up to the point where mrs. detlef sets boundaries.

 

while parents who don't parent at all are certainly a problem, I actually think we also have way too many parents who completely micromanage their kids lives. with that in mind, a parent who lets their kid have a relationship with a trusted neighbor basically on the kid's and the neighbor's own terms without hovering over the situation like a seagull-manager, well, I'm just not so quick to jump to the conclusion that they're derelict or lazy.

Kids crave their parents' time and attention, and many don't get enough of it. If this girl is so drawn to other adults, it is a reasonable inference that she either doesn't have enough to do at home or isn't getting the attention she needs. If the reason for the odd behavior is the girl is not right in some way, all the more reason to do a better job monitoring what she's doing. I don't care if the adults in question seem perfectly nice and normal, I'd be popping in at least occasionally to see what's up. If they are outside picking tomatoes, fine, have fun, be home for supper. To just let a kid go off with what are essentially strangers for hours at a time is not good parenting IMO.

[Azazello1313]

Kids crave their parents' time and attention, and many don't get enough of it. If this girl is so drawn to other adults, it is a reasonable inference that she either doesn't have enough to do at home or isn't getting the attention she needs.

 

you don't sound like you've been around many 12 year-olds. the last thing most of them crave is more of their parents' attention.

[BeeR]

you don't sound like you've been around many 12 year-olds. the last thing most of them crave is more of their parents' attention.

Unless they didn't receive enough of it at earlier ages, in which case they can never get enough, often even well into adulthood.

[detlef]

Give them a call, and gently ask what kind of mental disability their child has.

 

Two outcomes:

 

1. They answer "none", take your question as an insult, and never let their child at your house again.

 

2. They inform you of her disability, which opens the door for the conversation you had hoped to have.

 

win-win?

Not at all a win-win. If we didn't ever want to see the kid at all, that could be easily addressed. We don't want kids, but that doesn't mean we hate them.

 

What deserves mention is that, even if it's only for a few hours, we (mostly my wife) engages the kid likely as much as most parents do theirs over a far longer time. Because, when she comes over, she doesn't just go hang out and play by herself or with a friend. She's there to hang with us. The whole time. Sure, she helps out with jobs, but as many of you know, it's debatable how much of an asset she truly is in that regard. You might spend as much time supervising her as it would take you to do it yourself.

 

And that's not the point. It's not like we've got farm chores dawn til dusk. And like I'll get to below, we like turning her and the others on to some things they may not otherwise learn about.

 

If you feed a stray cat, it will come back. Keep feeding it, and it will stay. Pretty soon, it is your pet.

 

 

While the parents perhaps should say something, it seems that your wife is as much at "fault", for lack of a better word, for this situation. She is the one letting the kid come in as often as she does, rather than sending her home occassionally, she is the one that has apparently picked her up and taken her on outings (you mentioned taking her to the farmer's market), etc. You and your wife are the adults in this particular relationship and need to take some if not all of the accountability on the terms of the relationship. It sounds as though she is not getting the attention she desires at home (not even neccessarily a reflection of bad parenting, especially if as you say she has two older brothers and her father likely work's extended hours as a doctor), and your wife has provided the attention that she desires.

 

I think key is to make it clear that in no way is she to call your wife on the cell phone. She can come over to see if there are chores she can help with or if your wife wants to spend some time with her. Your wife needs to be willing to say no at times.

We send her home. We turn her away when we're truly not in the mood. It's just that it seems as if her parents don't mind making us have to do that all the time. And that doesn't seem right on their part. That, in addition to teaching her to respect our wishes that, when it's time to go home, it's time to go home (which they seem to have done), they should go a step further and, every now and then, when she says, "I'm going to Ms. Diana's" they say, "Honey, maybe not today. You've gone by there every day for the last five days. Maybe you should do something else today."

 

And if they know that she's calling as often as she is and aren't stopping her, well that's pretty lame.

 

Basically, it sounds like your saying that it's partially my wife's fault because she's cool to the kid. She wants to be cool to the kid and enjoys exposing these kids to things they might not otherwise see. Like the Farmer's Market and the veggie garden. Attachment to food source is a really important thing for us and we think it's important to show kids this sort of thing if they have any inclination. So they don't think food comes from a box.

 

But, it's really no different than the crushes she may soon have. And those are going to have the same sort of effect. Only, the HS boy who's a grade or two ahead of her is not likely going to try and find a delicate way of letting her know that, even though she's fine with leaving him alone when asked, him having to say so all the time is going to get old. No, there's a good chance he's going to do something a bit more hurtful.

[Bier Meister]

so det, what is appropriate for the parent in this case? if you appear content with the arrangement, how are they supposed to know when enough is enough? there is no way to speculate on another's tolerance on any given day without communication of some sort. ultimately you guys need to set your boundaries with the parents.... and them with the child. this does not have to be a terribly uncomfortable confrontation, just guidelines on what wokrs best for you guys.

[wiegie]

this is on your wife--but now that she has gotten herself into this mess, I think it is ok to make the parents help her get out of it

 

calling your wife's cell phone when she is at work is really over the top

[detlef]

so det, what is appropriate for the parent in this case? if you appear content with the arrangement, how are they supposed to know when enough is enough? there is no way to speculate on another's tolerance on any given day without communication of some sort. ultimately you guys need to set your boundaries with the parents.... and them with the child. this does not have to be a terribly uncomfortable confrontation, just guidelines on what wokrs best for you guys.

I don't think it needs to be a tough conversation. But given that they've failed to guide their daughter thus far, a conversation needs to happen none the less. I was just discussing this with one of my wine reps who is a friend who would have no trouble speaking frankly with me and is also a mother and she's pretty amazed that they haven't stepped in and done one of the following:

 

1) Just flat-out told their kid to not come over as often

2) Called my wife to make sure that it's OK that she comes over as often as she does.

 

I guess that's the one that seems at very least with me. Sure, don't step in and tell your kid not to come over. Like some have said, maybe they assume we're cool with. Maybe they ask their kid and the kid says we're fine with it (why wouldn't she?) But, at absolute very least, I can't imagine why she hasn't initiated the conversation just to make sure.

 

"Hey, I notice my daughter comes over nearly every day. You do realize I've told her that she should respect your wishes when you've got other things to do. But is this getting a bit much regardless of that?"

 

I mean, sure, maybe she thinks we're cool with this all. But is it beyond reason to suspect that we don't want to have to be confronted with having to either turn her child away or spend hours with her? That maybe we just days off from having to make that call?

[TimC]

I think I've told this story before. I remember about 10 years ago coming home from a volleyball game and jumping in the shower. I got out of the shower and heard some commotion in the living room. I knew it wasn't my dogs because it was LOUD. I grabbed a towel and ran in there. So now I'm standing face-to-towel staring at the neighbor's kids (aged around 5 and 8) running around my living room like it belonged to them. I rarely lock my front door even to this day. They took it upon themselves to just walk right in and start playing.

 

I had to go next door and tell the parents that I wasn't a child molestor (despite the white van with "free candy" scribbled on the side) in case they say anything about me in a towel. Awkward to say the least. I would talk to the parents honestly.

[detlef]

this is on your wife--but now that she has gotten herself into this mess, I think it is ok to make the parents help her get out of it

I pity any neighbors of yours who may make the mistake of being nice to your kids and not turning them away from the get go. Because that's what my wife is guilty of. Being cool to this kid and assuming her parents would have the sense to not allow her to put us in this position.

[Azazello1313]

I had to go next door and tell the parents that I wasn't a child molestor (despite the white van with "free candy" scribbled on the side) in case they say anything about me in a towel. Awkward to say the least.

 

it wouldn't have been as awkward if you didn't keep asking if the kids knew about "shrinkage"

[TimC]

it wouldn't have been as awkward if you didn't keep asking if the kids knew about "shrinkage"

 

Back then, the kids would just run into your house. You know how much it costs to have 2 perfectly good white kids delivered to your doorstep nowadays?

[Azazello1313]

I pity any neighbors of yours who may make the mistake of being nice to your kids and not turning them away from the get go. Because that's what my wife is guilty of. Being cool to this kid and assuming her parents would have the sense to not allow her to put us in this position.

 

geez, don't be a drama queen about it. it's really not so crazy to say that if you and your wife want boundaries, you should take some initiative in setting them.

[detlef]

geez, don't be a drama queen about it. it's really not so crazy to say that if you and your wife want boundaries, you should take some initiative in setting them.

No, straight up. I think you and weigie are flat-out wrong. We're not the parents. We don't have kids. We're the cool people on the block who aren't their parents. And it amazes me that you don't think her parents shouldn't have, at very least, contacted us by now to make absolutely certain that we're cool with how often their child comes over and even asks to hang out by now. Them being the parents and all. As opposed to likely asking her, "Are you sure it's fine with them that you go over there every day?"

 

This should not be on us to initiate. We're not the ones who made the decision to raise this child.

 

And I'll buy the fact that we need to set some boundaries. Which is what we're going to do. But I don't for a second buy the BS that this is on my wife and now it's up to her parents to bail us out. No, quite the opposite. Because her parents have been lazy, it's up to us to deal with this.

Edited July 26, 2011 by detlef

[untateve]

Kids crave their parents' time and attention, and many don't get enough of it. If this girl is so drawn to other adults, it is a reasonable inference that she either doesn't have enough to do at home or isn't getting the attention she needs. If the reason for the odd behavior is the girl is not right in some way, all the more reason to do a better job monitoring what she's doing. I don't care if the adults in question seem perfectly nice and normal, I'd be popping in at least occasionally to see what's up. If they are outside picking tomatoes, fine, have fun, be home for supper. To just let a kid go off with what are essentially strangers for hours at a time is not good parenting IMO.

 

 

you don't sound like you've been around many 12 year-olds. the last thing most of them crave is more of their parents' attention.

 

 

Unless they didn't receive enough of it at earlier ages, in which case they can never get enough, often even well into adulthood.

 

my work here is done.

[TimC]

Start sending the kid home with one shoe.

[Azazello1313]

No, straight up. I think you and weigie are flat-out wrong.

 

then I guess call the cops and get a restraining order if it's too much of a bother to speak to the young lady and/or her parents "straight up"

[Bier Meister]

I don't think it needs to be a tough conversation. But given that they've failed to guide their daughter thus far, a conversation needs to happen none the less. I was just discussing this with one of my wine reps who is a friend who would have no trouble speaking frankly with me and is also a mother and she's pretty amazed that they haven't stepped in and done one of the following:

 

i agree

 

1) Just flat-out told their kid to not come over as often ............... i wouldn't necessarily expect that without knowing it was an issue for you.

2) Called my wife to make sure that it's OK that she comes over as often as she does. ............ as a parent, i cannot imagine not doing this.

 

 

 

I guess that's the one that seems at very least with me. Sure, don't step in and tell your kid not to come over. Like some have said, maybe they assume we're cool with. Maybe they ask their kid and the kid says we're fine with it (why wouldn't she?) But, at absolute very least, I can't imagine why she hasn't initiated the conversation just to make sure.

 

"Hey, I notice my daughter comes over nearly every day. You do realize I've told her that she should respect your wishes when you've got other things to do. But is this getting a bit much regardless of that?"

 

I mean, sure, maybe she thinks we're cool with this all. But is it beyond reason to suspect that we don't want to have to be confronted with having to either turn her child away or spend hours with her? That maybe we just days off from having to make that call?

 

not at all. unfortunately the parents seem oblivious to some realms of common courtesy...... but we are all responsible for our own boundaries and cannot assume others know them.

[Azazello1313]

And it amazes me that you don't think her parents shouldn't have, at very least, contacted us by now to make absolutely certain that we're cool with how often their child comes over and even asks to hang out by now.

 

I said in my very first post that they probably should. but they haven't. so, y'all can take one of a few different approaches. you can talk to the young lady, tell her when it's ok to call, when it's ok to come over, etc. or you can talk to the parents and ask them to tell her not to come over. or you can sit around and fume in anger waiting for the parents to read your mind while you whine about it on an internet message board.

 

for the record, I listed the different approaches in the order of likely helpfulness in resolving the situation to everyone's mututal benefit.

[Big Country]

I pity any neighbors of yours who may make the mistake of being nice to your kids and not turning them away from the get go. Because that's what my wife is guilty of. Being cool to this kid and assuming her parents would have the sense to not allow her to put us in this position.

 

 

geez, don't be a drama queen about it. it's really not so crazy to say that if you and your wife want boundaries, you should take some initiative in setting them.

 

 

No, straight up. I think you and weigie are flat-out wrong. We're not the parents. We don't have kids. We're the cool people on the block who aren't their parents. And it amazes me that you don't think her parents shouldn't have, at very least, contacted us by now to make absolutely certain that we're cool with how often their child comes over and even asks to hang out by now. Them being the parents and all. As opposed to likely asking her, "Are you sure it's fine with them that you go over there every day?"

 

This should not be on us to initiate. We're not the ones who made the decision to raise this child.

 

 

But you are the ones that are the adults and have made the decision to allow her to come into your life this often. Not saying the parents shouldn't check up to make sure it is okay for her to come over, but the fact is, from the way you have presented the story, you and your wife more often than not say yes to this child, and by constantly allowing her to come in or offering to take her places (I would assume that your wife has the parents permission to take the child to the farmers market, etc.), it appears you are implicitly stating that you have no problem with the current arrangement.

 

Now, I say this as someone that has kids and has lots of neighborhood kids coming over to play. If I don't want them over, I tell them now is not a good time. I don't need to give them a reason, I don't even need to have one. I say no when I don't want them over, I say yes when it is okay. Additionally, I also try to make it a point to make sure that a parent/guardian of the child that is coming over is aware of the kid's location, make sure they don't need to be home at a certain time, let them know if I need to leave by a certain time so they know when the child is likely to return, etc.

 

Also, and I believe this is where you are coming from, if my kids are going to someone else's place to play, I will take them over there and make sure it is okay and check on the arrangements. Granted, my kids are much younger than the scenario you are in, and when they are closer to that age, I could see them asking to go to a neighbor's house and me letting them go, trusting that they will go where they say they are going and will come back if they are not able to play there.

[detlef]

then I guess call the cops and get a restraining order if it's too much of a bother to speak to the young lady and/or her parents "straight up"

Should I bother quoting the number of times in this thread where I've already mentioned that we're going to talk to her parents? Or would that get in the way of your stupid game of "gotcha" where you just pick phrases out of context and make stupid comments.

 

Really, that's pretty much your schtick here. Not just with me, but with basically everyone. You go through someone's thread, find the one thing that you could peel off that's easy to poke holes in. And poke a hole in it. Whether that point has already been addressed doesn't seem to matter.

 

And it's getting pretty freaking old.

 

There was a time when you were engaging to debate with. Now you seem hell bent on plucking the low hanging fruit (or rather, pretending that which is low hanging hasn't already been explained or covered). Are you keeping score or something? Are you high-fiving the guy in the next cubical?

[Ramhock]

I would just tell her everytime she knocks, that you are soon headed to the restaurant . . . and children aren't allowed there.

[Azazello1313]

Should I bother quoting the number of times in this thread where I've already mentioned that we're going to talk to her parents? Or would that get in the way of your stupid game of "gotcha" where you just pick phrases out of context and make stupid comments.

 

Really, that's pretty much your schtick here. Not just with me, but with basically everyone. You go through someone's thread, find the one thing that you could peel off that's easy to poke holes in. And poke a hole in it. Whether that point has already been addressed doesn't seem to matter.

 

And it's getting pretty freaking old.

 

There was a time when you were engaging to debate with. Now you seem hell bent on plucking the low hanging fruit (or rather, pretending that which is low hanging hasn't already been explained or covered). Are you keeping score or something? Are you high-fiving the guy in the next cubical?

 

MEOW!

 

the low-hanging fruit, phrase plucked out of context was the entirety of your post (before you edited it after I replied).

 

also, I stopped keeping score a long time ago as my own little "mercy rule"

 

:highfive:

[Square]

So a 12 year old comes over and helps you sort socks and actually enjoys it?