Eli v. Peyton

[Darkhorse1251]

I've seen the stat comparisons that recently have been made to say that Eli for all intents and purposes could be better than his big brother Peyton. Post-season road wins, having beat teams with great records in the post-season, etc. If Eli's last name wasn't Manning, and there wasn't so much to live up to, would there be any issue with this comparison? What about the drama about Eli claiming himself to be Elite? Would that have been so crazy if his last name wasn't Manning?

[Caveman_Nick]

It just doesn't pass the eyeball test.

[piratesownninjas]

Give Peyton that Giants defense and he has multiple rings. The hyperbole on Eli is insane. I never thought he was as bad as most, but now those same ones who said he wasn't special want to call him a first ballot HOF'er. He's a very good quarterback on a great team. Big Brother is on the Mount Rushmore of QB's that was surrounded by an average cast for the majority of his career.

[Darkhorse1251]

Give Peyton that Giants defense and he has multiple rings. The hyperbole on Eli is insane. I never thought he was as bad as most, but now those same ones who said he wasn't special want to call him a first ballot HOF'er. He's a very good quarterback on a great team. Big Brother is on the Mount Rushmore of QB's that was surrounded by an average cast for the majority of his career.

 

I agree, I do think Eli has made himself an Elite Quarterback though. If not Elite, at the very least clutch. I think I'd rather take clutch over Elite in certain situations.

[Caveman_Nick]

Eli's still pretty young and a very good QB.

 

The thing is that Peyton's play was often awe inspiring to watch. I have never been in awe of Eli. I have just thought that he was very good at his job.

[CaptainHook]

Peyton was amazing in the regular season. Best I've seen. He had a few games in the play-offs that were unbelievable. Both home games against Denver and the game at Kansas City were absolute offensive clinics. But Peyton was not good in the playoffs. As much as people want to put it on the defense and special teams, there were many occasions when the Colts, and Peyton in particular, just did not get the job done. They never won a road playoff game as an up-and-coming team. They lost several as favorites. Losing as the #1 seed to the Steelers, losing as the #2 seed at home to San Diego and Billy Volek. Losing as a 12-4 team at 8-8 San Diego. Losing last year to the Jets. Peyton just has not come up big in the post-season like he has in the regular season. Part of that is due to the Colts not building this team the correct way. But a lot of it is on Peyton Manning. Irsay has invested huge amounts of money on the offensive side of the ball, and they have not produced on multiple occasions. Hopefully they learned a lesson and will build around Andrew Luck correctly. I'm a hugh Peyton fan and appreciate all he's done for the Colts, but I can't help but think it should have been more.

 

I would take a stout defense and an above average to borderline elite QB over an offensive juggernaut with an elite QB.

Edited January 31, 2012 by CaptainHook

[stevegrab]

Peyton was amazing in the regular season. Best I've seen. He had a few games in the play-offs that were unbelievable. Both home games against Denver and the game at Kansas City were absolute offensive clinics. But Peyton was not good in the playoffs. As much as people want to put it on the defense and special teams, there were many occasions when the Colts, and Peyton in particular, just did not get the job done. They never won a road playoff game as an up-and-coming team. They lost several as favorites. Losing as the #1 seed to the Steelers, losing as the #2 seed at home to San Diego and Billy Volek. Losing as a 12-4 team at 8-8 San Diego. Losing last year to the Jets. Peyton just has not come up big in the post-season like he has in the regular season. Part of that is due to the Colts not building this team the correct way. But a lot of it is on Peyton Manning. Irsay has invested huge amounts of money on the offensive side of the ball, and they have not produced on multiple occasions. Hopefully they learned a lesson and will build around Andrew Luck correctly. I'm a hugh Peyton fan and appreciate all he's done for the Colts, but I can't help but think it should have been more.

 

I would take a stout defense and an above average to borderline elite QB over an offensive juggernaut with an elite QB.

 

Curious what part is on the Colts team (poor defense, not enough supporting cast, etc) and how much is on Peyton? 50-50? Or more on one side or the other.

[BeeR]

Give Peyton that Giants defense and he has multiple rings. The hyperbole on Eli is insane.

Exactly. And funny, in a completely bonehead concept kinda way.

 

I never thought he was as bad as most, but now those same ones who said he wasn't special want to call him a first ballot HOF'er.

Same applies to this.

 

I don't know where this trend to call some guy or team (etc) one of the "all time greats" just as or even before they're starting to sniff that territory came from, but it's gotten old. I remember before NE even won their 3d SB people (mostly the media, to be fair) were wetting themselves with the "dynasty" talk. As soon as they won people beat it to death. Not saying they were even wrong per se, just again this whole obsession with naming the latest whoevers as all-time greats thing. A guy has a few good years in a row and people are ready to toss them in the HOF. For me the whole thing has less and less meaning every year.

 

lol @ Eli vs Peyton and the concept that one guy wins titles vs teams once again rearing its brilliant head.

Edited January 31, 2012 by BeeR

[CaptainHook]

Curious what part is on the Colts team (poor defense, not enough supporting cast, etc) and how much is on Peyton? 50-50? Or more on one side or the other.

I go back to 2005. The Colts had the #2 scoring defense and #11 yardage defense. They had the #1 offense and were the #1 seed. Lost in the first round to Pittsburgh.

 

In 2007 they had the #3 defense in the NFL by total yardage. They had the #2 pass defense. They were the #2 seed and lost at home to the Chargers and Billy Volek.

 

In 2008 they had the #11 defense by total yardage. They had the #6 pass defense. At 12-4 they were a wild card and lost to the 8-8 Chargers.

 

They had the best offense money could buy in both of those years. One and done in the playoffs three times. In between those two years, in 2006, they won the SB with the #32 ranked rushing defense. Manning shares a large portion of the blame in those three years. You cannot lose the first game of the playoffs in your prime three out of four years.

[Ed Hoyle]

I agree, I do think Eli has made himself an Elite Quarterback though. If not Elite, at the very least clutch. I think I'd rather take clutch over Elite in certain situations.

 

Exactly...think "Discount Double-Choke"...where was "clutch" on that day?

 

 

LOL.

 

Eli has proven to do well in games where they needed to come from behind. The Dallas game in December was a great game. Is he elite? I'm not sure IMHO, but he's getting there. Peyton was a great QB, but only did it once in the playoffs.

[Czarina]

Peyton will always have more pure skill...but Eli's got that "clutch" thing in a way Peyton has never had, really.

[Ed Hoyle]

Peyton will always have more pure skill...but Eli's got that "clutch" thing in a way Peyton has never had, really.

 

I agree.

[CaptainHook]

Peyton was a great QB, but only did it once in the playoffs.

That's not exactly true, either. He had three very good runs in the playoffs. In 2003, the Colts run to the AFC Championship game was brilliant. I challenge anyone to find two better consecutive games than the two he played at home against Denver and at Kansas City. They lost in a snow storm in New England to a better team.

 

In 2006, the Colts went to the Super Bowl, but Manning did not have any fantastic games.

 

And in 2009, they had a good run to the Super Bowl, only to lose to the Saints.

 

But those three seasons are about it. SEVEN times the Colts were one-and-done in the playoffs. That is astounding.

[HowboutthemCowboys]

Give Peyton that Giants defense and he has multiple rings. The hyperbole on Eli is insane. I never thought he was as bad as most, but now those same ones who said he wasn't special want to call him a first ballot HOF'er.

 

This.

 

If Dallas was'nt total suck and beat the Giants in week 17 Eli would be getting blasted for considering himself elite and the talking heads would be calling for Coughlin's job after another mediocre season

[isleseeya]

Peyton more talent , Eli appears to have more clutch as has been written

 

however i feel this comparison is still too early to make ...in another 4- 5 years it can be made more accurately

 

Another SB ring will definitely help Eli's case ...but even if he gets another this sunday i think its still too soon to make the comparison

[heydave76]

I go back to 2005. The Colts had the #2 scoring defense and #11 yardage defense. They had the #1 offense and were the #1 seed. Lost in the first round to Pittsburgh.

 

In 2007 they had the #3 defense in the NFL by total yardage. They had the #2 pass defense. They were the #2 seed and lost at home to the Chargers and Billy Volek.

 

In 2008 they had the #11 defense by total yardage. They had the #6 pass defense. At 12-4 they were a wild card and lost to the 8-8 Chargers.

 

They had the best offense money could buy in both of those years. One and done in the playoffs three times. In between those two years, in 2006, they won the SB with the #32 ranked rushing defense. Manning shares a large portion of the blame in those three years. You cannot lose the first game of the playoffs in your prime three out of four years.

 

I'm not sure how much you can blame the chargers losses on Manning choking as opposed to total team play. In the first game Volek only threw the ball 4 times. Manning threw for 402 yards 3tds and 2 int. The next year they played Manning threw for 310 yards 1td and 0int. I think Manning did his part.

 

The interceptions in the first game hurt them but consider what another great QB did against them during the same era.

In the 2006 playoffs Tom Brady played San Diego and threw for 280 yards 2 tds and 3int. In 2007 in Brady's record breaking year they played the chargers again and he threw 209 yards 2tds and 3 int. and won both games.

 

Manning had better games than Brady against the same teams yet Patriots won.

 

I'm not making this a Brady vs Manning thing. I'm just using Brady because he had a record breaking offense that was tremendously slowed down by that same Chargers team.

[delusions of grandeur]

So, a bunch of Giants injured, they almost miss the playoffs and Coughlin almost gets fired... They get healthy, make a run along with a great set of WRs and DEs, in a year where 4 other QBs had just as good of years as Eli, but he wins a few more playoff games, and now everything has changed and he's arguably better than his brother, who previously we only mentioned Brady and HOFers in the same sentence with??

 

People really do have extremely short memories I guess... This is almost as silly as the "lock for HOF" if he wins the Superbowl. A couple of seasons where the stars align and you thrive do not make a career.

 

(ETA: okay, they certainly put exclamation points on careers, but Marino is proof that even a HOF QB can't do it by himself. Thus, you have to look at more than just superbowls when stacking up QB accomplishments.)

Edited February 1, 2012 by delusions of granduer

[CaptainHook]

I'm not sure how much you can blame the chargers losses on Manning choking as opposed to total team play. In the first game Volek only threw the ball 4 times. Manning threw for 402 yards 3tds and 2 int. The next year they played Manning threw for 310 yards 1td and 0int. I think Manning did his part.

 

The interceptions in the first game hurt them but consider what another great QB did against them during the same era.

In the 2006 playoffs Tom Brady played San Diego and threw for 280 yards 2 tds and 3int. In 2007 in Brady's record breaking year they played the chargers again and he threw 209 yards 2tds and 3 int. and won both games.

 

Manning had better games than Brady against the same teams yet Patriots won.

 

I'm not making this a Brady vs Manning thing. I'm just using Brady because he had a record breaking offense that was tremendously slowed down by that same Chargers team.

Then Peyton has to be the unluckiest "greatest QB of all time". If you're one of the greatest, you are able to drag inferior teams to playoff wins. Not just playoff appearances. 7 one-and-dones is unacceptable. They've lost so many games as favorites, it makes me sick. I don't expect SB every year, but they should at least be in the mix. Very disappointing to only have three significant playoff runs is his 14 year career. They've had plenty of offense and adequate defense to have done more.

Edited February 1, 2012 by CaptainHook

[piratesownninjas]

Exactly...think "Discount Double-Choke"...where was "clutch" on that day? .

Yeah, Aaron Rodgers should have to throw AND catch the ball. It's called 8 dropped passes, dumbass.

[heydave76]

Then Peyton has to be the unluckiest "greatest QB of all time". If you're one of the greatest, you are able to drag inferior teams to playoff wins. Not just playoff appearances. 7 one-and-dones is unacceptable. They've lost so many games as favorites, it makes me sick. I don't expect SB every year, but they should at least be in the mix. Very disappointing to only have three significant playoff runs is his 14 year career. They've had plenty of offense and adequate defense to have done more.

 

I think you drag inferior playoff teams to playoff wins. I always felt Manning dragged non playoff teams to high playoff seeds. I'm not saying he didn't have some playoff stinkers, but so did some of the other QBs we call clutch yet they won.

 

I think the problem with winning in the playoffs is a lot deeper than Manning. Vinatieri hits a field goal against Miami he wins his second playoff game. He put them in position to win and the team didn't pull through.Vinatieri hits a field goal against Pittsburgh maybe that game plays out differently. Some of the players we call clutch had kickers that hit field goals at key spots. Patriots got lucky beating San Diego when they fumbled a game clinching pick back to the Pats. I think luck has a lot to do with it.

 

Last year Caldwell doesn't call a stupid time out they beat the Jets. Poor game plans inferior coaching was a part of it. Manning has hid a lot of deep weaknesses these teams have always had. Including bad coaching. These weaknesses were exposed in the playoffs.

[CaptainHook]

Some would say that Eli has dragged the Giants to the playoffs. They were the 27th ranked defense. Their secondary is in shambles. The WR corp has been injury-riddled. They don't have any great TE's, but here they are in the Super Bowl. Several of Peyton's teams were way better than this Giants team and never sniffed the Super Bowl.

[Czarina]

Some would say that Eli has dragged the Giants to the playoffs. They were the 27th ranked defense. Their secondary is in shambles. The WR corp has been injury-riddled. They don't have any great TE's, but here they are in the Super Bowl. Several of Peyton's teams were way better than this Giants team and never sniffed the Super Bowl.

I think comparing this year's teams to teams of even just a few years ago has become apples vs. oranges. This league is SO pass happy and defense free that it just doesn't fit. When PM was lighting up the world, you still needed a D to win. Not so much anymore. It's arena ball now, relatively speaking.

[Ditkaless Wonders]

That's not exactly true, either. He had three very good runs in the playoffs. In 2003, the Colts run to the AFC Championship game was brilliant. I challenge anyone to find two better consecutive games than the two he played at home against Denver and at Kansas City. They lost in a snow storm in New England to a better team.

 

In 2006, the Colts went to the Super Bowl, but Manning did not have any fantastic games.

 

And in 2009, they had a good run to the Super Bowl, only to lose to the Saints.

 

But those three seasons are about it. SEVEN times the Colts were one-and-done in the playoffs. That is astounding.

 

 

I remember 2003, I think. Was that the year Manning slayed the duel dragons of Jake Plummer and Trent Green?

[Menudo]

C'mon now.....Eli has definitely moved up the ladder, and I now consider him at the top of the 2nd Tier, but, comparing him to his brother is silly. Post-season performance is just one piece of the puzzle, and is the only piece that Eli would have an advantage. Peyton Manning is the best QB that I've ever seen play. I always felt that way, and this past Colts' season confirmed it for me. Essentially, the same team has been going 10-6 to 13-3 every year for the past several years with Peyton running the offense. Without him, they win 2 games. No one does as much from the position as Peyton does. He is essentially and offensive coordinator, along with playing the position. Eli is very good, but, his brother is in the conversation as the best of all-time.

[CaptainHook]

I think comparing this year's teams to teams of even just a few years ago has become apples vs. oranges. This league is SO pass happy and defense free that it just doesn't fit. When PM was lighting up the world, you still needed a D to win. Not so much anymore. It's arena ball now, relatively speaking.

The Saints and Packers would disagree . . .