Grits and Shins Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 So we all know the refs on the field blew the call ... but I have heard over and over that the replay refs are NOT replacements they are the normal review crew. Doesn't that mean the same thing would have happened had a regular ref ruled that a TD on the field? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Beatings Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 Maybe, but its much harder to overturn than to uphold a ruling on the field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tripleshot Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 I was thinking about that too, but would the regular refs have called the TD on the field, making the review a moot point(or would they have reviewed it because it was a turnover)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSab Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 That was horrible , criminal . They robbed the Packers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big John Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 The booth can only call for a replay. The ref on the field makes the final determination and can NOT be overruled by the booth. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flemingd Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 Doesn't that mean the same thing would have happened had a regular ref ruled that a TD on the field? Exactly. This is only a big deal because of the three weeks of redonkulous officiating we've had before this. If this were to have happened in 2011 there would be 10 posts total and we'd all be asleep by now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i_am_the_swammi Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 So we all know the refs on the field blew the call ... but I have heard over and over that the replay refs are NOT replacements they are the normal review crew. Doesn't that mean the same thing would have happened had a regular ref ruled that a TD on the field? Yes, the same thing would have happened....but only because the play was not reviewable in terms of who had possession. Even I could have called it a TD, and it would have stood...I would have been wrong, but that is besides the point. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 So swammi what were they reviewing then? Whether he came down in bounds, retained possession, etc? And could they review and call the PI? I was starting to wonder last night, that official on the field (the NFL employee in stripes with the headset), he's in contact with somebody(s) in the booth watching they game and the officiating. They call down to him and say "hey go talk to the ref and tell him...". Who are these guys (the ones on the field and in booth)? How many are in the booth? What is their background? And exactly what are the parameters of operation for this extra officiating crew? If you need that many extra people working with the replacement refs and things are still this bad, its time to end the experiment. Pay the refs what they want and move on. (I've said before I don't just want the NFL to cave to NFLRA demands, I've not changed my mind. Don't believe they will do it, but they should). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballjoe Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 The booth cannot determine who caught the ball but only if a catch was made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby's Hubby Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 The roughing the passer and the pass interference is what cost the Packers, and those are the calls that should not have been made. The hail mary should never have even taken place. Very poor officiating. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 The booth cannot determine who caught the ball but only if a catch was made. What booth? You mean the referree doing the video review? The booth only looks at the play and buzzs the ref telling him to review. Nobody in the BOOTH (upstairs) is making the call to uphold or overturn a call. If you're just echoing swammi's point, say "yep swammi is right" instead of making up something about what the booth can do. Here is a valid question, if the video replay cannot decide possession, why'd they have the ref review it? What else was in question? Or was it just to appease the players and fans. Anybody think there would have been blood shed if the call was overturned? Were the refs afraid for their lives? What an absolute joke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 (edited) What booth? You mean the referree doing the video review? The booth only looks at the play and buzzs the ref telling him to review. Nobody in the BOOTH (upstairs) is making the call to uphold or overturn a call. If you're just echoing swammi's point, say "yep swammi is right" instead of making up something about what the booth can do. Here is a valid question, if the video replay cannot decide possession, why'd they have the ref review it? What else was in question? Or was it just to appease the players and fans. Anybody think there would have been blood shed if the call was overturned? Were the refs afraid for their lives? What an absolute joke. I also read or was told somewhere about the replay not being able to determine who had possession, only that the ball never hit the ground. The only reason the booth was even called into play was because it was a scoring play and they automatically look at those plays. However, it seems that the thing they messed up is not reviewable anyway, which also takes away the point that Grits so dearly wants to make, that this is not the fault of the scabs, but rather the regular booth guys. Guys, it appears, were powerless to help overturn the massive screw up that the replacement refs made. Edited September 25, 2012 by detlef Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flemingd Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 (edited) So swammi what were they reviewing then? Whether he came down in bounds, retained possession, etc? They review all reviewable elements, yes. If the ball was jostling around or hit the ground, or if someone in contact with the football got a foot out of bounds, probably a few other things they could have double-checked for. And could they review and call the PI? Most penalties aren't reviewable and I'm pretty sure OPI isn't. Someone once said "factual penalties" like 12 men on the field, but I don't know if that was announcer rhetoric or gospel. There's probably a list somewhere. Edited September 25, 2012 by flemingd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballjoe Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 Mike and Mike have been discussing this all morning. There have been some excellent explanations about what happened and what should have happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 They review all reviewable elements, yes. If the ball was jostling around or hit the ground, or if someone in contact with the football got a foot out of bounds, probably a few other things they could have double-checked for. Most penalties aren't reviewable and I'm pretty sure OPI isn't. Someone once said "factual penalties" like 12 men on the field, but I don't know if that was announcer rhetoric or gospel. There's probably a list somewhere. 12 men on the field is reviewable, I hae seen it happen a few times already this field. In fact the coach can challenge, and get it reviewed and the penalty called. Forget which game, but I saw that this season. Part of my point is, outside of who had possession, what was in question to have the on field ref review it. If possession isn't reviewable, why have him review it. So the booth official (not a replacement) screwed up. Of course the on field refs screwed up as well, at least twice just on that last play). Mike and Mike have been discussing this all morning. There have been some excellent explanations about what happened and what should have happened. Anything you could share that is concise and relavent? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted September 25, 2012 Author Share Posted September 25, 2012 I also read or was told somewhere about the replay not being able to determine who had possession, only that the ball never hit the ground. The only reason the booth was even called into play was because it was a scoring play and they automatically look at those plays. However, it seems that the thing they messed up is not reviewable anyway, which also takes away the point that Grits so dearly wants to make, that this is not the fault of the scabs, but rather the regular booth guys. Guys, it appears, were powerless to help overturn the massive screw up that the replacement refs made. I am not arguing that the call wasn't blown on the field ... clearly it was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i_am_the_swammi Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 Part of my point is, outside of who had possession, what was in question to have the on field ref review it. If possession isn't reviewable, why have him review it. So the booth official (not a replacement) screwed up. Of course the on field refs screwed up as well, at least twice just on that last play). Anything you could share that is concise and relavent? I think you have the process a little backward. When a TD is scored...yes, EVERY SINGLE TD, it is reviewed by the booth. Once the booth OKs the score, they buzz the ref, and he then blows the whistle to proceed with the extra-point. The field ref cannot proceed with the extra point until he is buzzed from the booth that the TD, as called on the field, is good. But the point is, every single TD is reviewed. Sadly, in this case, possession is not reviewable...only things such as getting both feet in bounds, maintaining control to the ground, etc....are reviewable. I have no idea why possession wouldn't be reviewable, but its not, which is why this TD stood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flemingd Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 12 men on the field is reviewable, I hae seen it happen a few times already this field. In fact the coach can challenge, and get it reviewed and the penalty called. Forget which game, but I saw that this season. Part of my point is, outside of who had possession, what was in question to have the on field ref review it. If possession isn't reviewable, why have him review it. So the booth official (not a replacement) screwed up. Of course the on field refs screwed up as well, at least twice just on that last play). Anything you could share that is concise and relavent? Poorly worded, I mean 12 men is one of the few reviewable ones. They are reviewing the entire play, not just possession (not possession at all, in fact). There might be other elements they need to verify/rule out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 Yes, the same thing would have happened....but only because the play was not reviewable in terms of who had possession. Even I could have called it a TD, and it would have stood...I would have been wrong, but that is besides the point. that is incorrect, according to the NFL statement: Replay Official Howard Slavin stopped the game for an instant replay review. The aspects of the play that were reviewable included if the ball hit the ground and who had possession of the ball. In the end zone, a ruling of a simultaneous catch is reviewable. That is not the case in the field of play, only in the end zone. Referee Wayne Elliott determined that no indisputable visual evidence existed to overturn the call on the field, and as a result, the on-field ruling of touchdown stood. The NFL Officiating Department reviewed the video today and supports the decision not to overturn the on-field ruling following the instant replay review. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 I think you have the process a little backward. When a TD is scored...yes, EVERY SINGLE TD, it is reviewed by the booth. Once the booth OKs the score, they buzz the ref, and he then blows the whistle to proceed with the extra-point. The field ref cannot proceed with the extra point until he is buzzed from the booth that the TD, as called on the field, is good. But the point is, every single TD is reviewed. Sadly, in this case, possession is not reviewable...only things such as getting both feet in bounds, maintaining control to the ground, etc....are reviewable. I have no idea why possession wouldn't be reviewable, but its not, which is why this TD stood. You're wrong at least about possession being reviewed, might want to look at the other threads/discussions about the NFL statement. Possession (in the EZ) is reviewable. Or what Az posted. My basic point is the booth looks at the TD (or interception) and decided if the ref should do video review. They DO NOT make the decision to uphold or overturn the play, only whether the play is REVIEWED by the ref. This isn't college ball where the review is done in the booth and they can decide to overturn the play. The term "booth review" is relative to TD, turnovers, and under 2 minute (for things a coach can normally challenge). Booth review is not the final decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikesVikes Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 The booth can only call for a replay. The ref on the field makes the final determination and can NOT be overruled by the booth. Final say comes from the field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowboutthemCowboys Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 (edited) Yes, the same thing would have happened....but only because the play was not reviewable in terms of who had possession. this is incorrect edit :Az covered this, didnt read all the posts.. Edited September 25, 2012 by HowboutthemCowboys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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