Calvin Johnson says he may retire this offseason

[gilthorp]

Congratulations to you Megatron - you were a Bear Killer. The Johnson/Tillman matchups were very fun to watch.

[darin3]

Congratulations to you Megatron - you were a Bear Killer. The Johnson/Tillman matchups were very fun to watch.

 

Yeah at 6'2", Peanut was one of the few CBs that could match up at least semi-well against Megatron.

[Gopher]

Interesting question. Some HOF'ers get in based on cumulative numbers, even though they were never absolutely dominant at any given time in their career. Calvin Johnson is the complete opposite of that... Overall numbers won't be enough to get him there, but he was certainly dominant (and arguably the best at his position) for a period of time. That period of time was probably shorter than it could have been (or at least shorter than many of us expected initially), but that period of dominance might still be enough to get him in eventually.

 

I don't think there is a magic formula for getting in, and I don't think that there should be. It should be a combination of all of the above... overall numbers, was the player dominant at his position, and I do think their "likeability" plays a part as well (right or wrong). Calvin has two out of three going for him, but he's certainly not a no-brainer, by any means.

[Mr Bad Example]

Interesting question. Some HOF'ers get in based on cumulative numbers, even though they were never absolutely dominant at any given time in their career. Calvin Johnson is the complete opposite of that... Overall numbers won't be enough to get him there, but he was certainly dominant (and arguably the best at his position) for a period of time. That period of time was probably shorter than it could have been (or at least shorter than many of us expected initially), but that period of dominance might still be enough to get him in eventually.

 

I don't think there is a magic formula for getting in, and I don't think that there should be. It should be a combination of all of the above... overall numbers, was the player dominant at his position, and I do think their "likeability" plays a part as well (right or wrong). Calvin has two out of three going for him, but he's certainly not a no-brainer, by any means.

 

 

He was DOMINANT from 11-13, and you could probably throw his '08 and '10 season in there too, at least as far as being a top-10 WR numbers wise....he never had a BAD season, and was a 3-time All Pro.

 

I tend to think of HoFers as a player who was among the top 3 to 5 at his position for a 5 years....ideally 5 years consecutively, but I think that from 08 on, if you asked anyone what WR they would want, Johnson would have been one of the first 3 names mentioned, if not THE first.

 

It boggles my mind that people will be against Calvin Johnson, but favor players who had long, merely-good careers - it's as if they don't want GREATNESS, they want compilers, in the HoF.

 

Looking at every players' first 9 yrs, Calvin Johnson ranks 6th in receptions, 3rd in yds, and 5th in tds...and 5th in receiving yds/game. He could have played longer and padded those stats, but as it is I think it's pretty apparent that he performed at a tremendously high level during his entire career, and belongs in there with the greats.

[gilthorp]

I don't think he's worthy of the Hall of Fame. Good player - solid, but like a solid A. Other kids with the solid A do extra credit to get a better grade.

 

He's been good, but not Hall of Fame great.

[BA Baracus]

I don't think he's worthy of the Hall of Fame. Good player - solid, but like a solid A. Other kids with the solid A do extra credit to get a better grade.

 

He's been good, but not Hall of Fame great.

Then there are a lot of guys who need to give back their gold jacket.

[gilthorp]

You are correct. He probably gets in. He did tweet about his pizza this weekend so he's got that going for him.

[stevegrab]

I don't think he's worthy of the Hall of Fame. Good player - solid, but like a solid A. Other kids with the solid A do extra credit to get a better grade.

 

He's been good, but not Hall of Fame great.

 

In that example extra credit = padding stats playing long past when you were great, doesn't make them more worthy IMHO.

[flemingd]

I had the same debate about him until I saw the career yards per game average:

 

Rk Player Y/G
1 Calvin Johnson 86.1
2 Torry Holt 77.4
3 Marvin Harrison 76.7
4 Andre Johnson 76.2
5 Jerry Rice* 75.6
6 Lance Alworth* 74.9
7 Michael Irvin* 74.9
8 Brandon Marshall 74.2
9 Terrell Owens 72.8
10 Larry Fitzgerald 71.9

That's a staggering lead over the next closest guy, and that sold me.

[Shaft]

I had the same debate about him until I saw the career yards per game average:

 

Rk Player Y/G

1 Calvin Johnson 86.1

2 Torry Holt 77.4

3 Marvin Harrison 76.7

4 Andre Johnson 76.2

5 Jerry Rice* 75.6

6 Lance Alworth* 74.9

7 Michael Irvin* 74.9

8 Brandon Marshall 74.2

9 Terrell Owens 72.8

10 Larry Fitzgerald 71.9

 

That's a staggering lead over the next closest guy, and that sold me.

This combined with the receiving record for a season, and him being such a good guy might get him in. But if Terrell Davis doesn't get in, Megatron does NOT deserve to be in, IMHO,

[Zooty]

This combined with the receiving record for a season, and him being such a good guy might get him in. But if Terrell Davis doesn't get in, Megatron does NOT deserve to be in, IMHO,

I don't see the relevance of TD?

CJ played longer and likely won't be replaced by 2 or 3 guys who do almost as well.

 

Not saying its right but thats how it may be viewed

[darin3]

I don't see the relevance of TD?

CJ played longer and likely won't be replaced by 2 or 3 guys who do almost as well.

 

Not saying its right but thats how it may be viewed

 

Guessing he meant Terrell Owens.

 

I mentioned the per-game receiving average in an earlier post, but honestly.... I don't think you can look at that stat as the tell-all for HoF worthiness. It's just a different era.... and that stat sticks out like a sore thumb with respect to that fact.

[flemingd]

This combined with the receiving record for a season, and him being such a good guy might get him in. But if Terrell Davis doesn't get in, Megatron does NOT deserve to be in, IMHO,

 

 

2 points:

 

1. Calvin played almost twice as long

2. Calvin was dominant here. TD is amongst the leaders, but he's not nearly 10% beyond the next closest.

 

It's an interesting discussion though, and Calvin is likely to be the one that bridges some of these questionable examples.

[Shaft]

 

 

2 points:

 

1. Calvin played almost twice as long

2. Calvin was dominant here. TD is amongst the leaders, but he's not nearly 10% beyond the next closest.

 

It's an interesting discussion though, and Calvin is likely to be the one that bridges some of these questionable examples.

 

Those are fair points, but if people are arguing about dominance in a short period of time, then TD is the king. Also, not to mention NFL MVP, Superbowl MVP, and 2 rings! TD is also 3rd in avg yards per game behind Jim Brown and Barry Sanders. I like Megatron, but he is also playing in a pass inflated era with a LOT of competition at wide receiver.

[darin3]

 

Those are fair points, but if people are arguing about dominance in a short period of time, then TD is the king. Also, not to mention NFL MVP, Superbowl MVP, and 2 rings! TD is also 3rd in avg yards per game behind Jim Brown and Barry Sanders. I like Megatron, but he is also playing in a pass inflated era with a LOT of competition at wide receiver.

Oh, maybe not then....

 

And the TD comparison totally holds water. Shaft is right on here.

[Shaft]

I don't see the relevance of TD?

CJ played longer and likely won't be replaced by 2 or 3 guys who do almost as well.

 

Not saying its right but thats how it may be viewed

The relevance of TD is dominance. That's what Megatron's biggest argument will be for the hall of fame. He has no playoff success and his overall statistics are not overly impressive for a hall of fame wide receiver. And don't give me the crappy team argument (you can say that for many players). He had 3 or 4 GREAT years, after that, statistically he's just a very good receiver. TD had 3 great years with a MVP, superbowl MVP, and unparalleled playoff success. It's definitely relevant when you're discussing hall of fame credentials.

[michaelredd9]

The relevance of TD is dominance. That's what Megatron's biggest argument will be for the hall of fame. He has no playoff success and his overall statistics are not overly impressive for a hall of fame wide receiver. And don't give me the crappy team argument (you can say that for many players). He had 3 or 4 GREAT years, after that, statistically he's just a very good receiver. TD had 3 great years with a MVP, superbowl MVP, and unparalleled playoff success. It's definitely relevant when you're discussing hall of fame credentials.

 

Calvin Johnson would have been dominant on any of the 32 teams in the NFL. Terrell Davis had the good fortune of playing for a revolutionary offense. Same criticism can be made of Emmitt Smith and any receiver or quarterback fortunate enough to play for the Bill Walsh era 49ers.

[gilthorp]

Should be an interesting conversation in a few years time. h

[HowboutthemCowboys]

 

Calvin Johnson would have been dominant on any of the 32 teams in the NFL. Terrell Davis had the good fortune of playing for a revolutionary offense. Same criticism can be made of Emmitt Smith and any receiver or quarterback fortunate enough to play for the Bill Walsh era 49ers.

seems odd to say Calvin would dominate anywhere but Rice had the benefit of Walsh

[stevegrab]

 

Calvin Johnson would have been dominant on any of the 32 teams in the NFL. Terrell Davis had the good fortune of playing for a revolutionary offense. Same criticism can be made of Emmitt Smith and any receiver or quarterback fortunate enough to play for the Bill Walsh era 49ers.

 

Yes all this talk of TD and playoff success dismisses the fact he played on a very good team, if Calvin played with such a team he would have had playoff success too.

[michaelredd9]

seems odd to say Calvin would dominate anywhere but Rice had the benefit of Walsh

 

Calvin was huge and very fast. Jerry Rice ran the 40 yard dash in 4.59 seconds. However, Rice's skill set was perfect for the West Coast Offense. I'm not saying TD and Rice weren't good, just that they benefited greatly from revolutionary offenses. If Jerry Rice hadn't existed, a different receiver would have put up huge numbers for Walsh. And if TD hadn't existed, another running back would have put up huge numbers for Shanahan. In fact, when TD got hurt, the Broncos run game didn't miss a beat.

[stevegrab]

 

Calvin was huge and very fast. Jerry Rice ran the 40 yard dash in 4.59 seconds. However, Rice's skill set was perfect for the West Coast Offense. I'm not saying TD and Rice weren't good, just that they benefited greatly from revolutionary offenses. If Jerry Rice hadn't existed, a different receiver would have put up huge numbers for Walsh. And if TD hadn't existed, another running back would have put up huge numbers for Shanahan. In fact, when TD got hurt, the Broncos run game didn't miss a beat.

 

And nobody short of an elite WR taking Calvin's place with the Lions would put up stats like he did.

[HowboutthemCowboys]

Hogwash

[michaelredd9]

Same thing applies to Joe Montana and Steve Young. Joe Montana was a weak-armed quarterback who played in era where quarterbacks threw deep. Fortunately, he was able to play in the West Coast Offense that was predicated on short passes. Steve Young flopped at Tampa Bay. Young threw 11 touchdowns and 21 interceptions in his 2 years at Tampa Bay at the ages of 24 and 25. In his first year at San Francisco, he threw 10 touchdowns and zero interceptions in only 69 pass attempts. Had Bill Walsh not existed, Joe Montana and Steve Young might have never amounted to anything. Bill Walsh was a God.

[HowboutthemCowboys]

The same thing could be said about alot of players in the league.

You have to be in the right situation to succeed. To say Jerry Rice was only the best wr to ever play the game (which he is imo) because of Walsh is something I would disagree with all day long