Cowboyz1 Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 The way I see it is this. Whether he can pass block is not so relevant as to how many carries he gets and most importantly, who is going to pound the ball on 1st 2nd and 3rd downs at the goal line. His value to me is simply he's the only back they seem to use at the goal line and he's their default starter. That is worth a 4th round pick IMO. If I have to get him in the 3rd I may pass depending on the situation but for me he's certainly worth a early 4th round pick a maybe a late 3rd for the simple fact that he will get the goal line carries and most likely will be on the field for a majority of Denver's snaps. I agree whole heartily that pass protection for a running back is critical for a starting RB but a willing and capable learner can pick that up and be serviceable fairly quickly. He's got the size that is a benefit and seems to have the feet to do a good job at it. Teams can do things to help the kid out early in the season with pass protection whether it be play calling or 12 personnel but the kid has talent and I have a good feeling they want him to be the starter and will do everything they can to help him in the areas he needs help in to be the starter. I picked him in the 5th and 4th rounds in most of my drafts. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stethant Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 Any chance we can change the "like" button here to a thumbs up or something instead of a heart? Not sure I'm ready for the "love" level of commitment when I like a post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelredd9 Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 4 minutes ago, stethant said: Any chance we can change the "like" button here to a thumbs up or something instead of a heart? Not sure I'm ready for the "love" level of commitment when I like a post. It reminds of early grade school when we had to give a Valentine card to every person in class, boy and girl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slambo Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 4 minutes ago, michaelredd9 said: It reminds of early grade school when we had to give a Valentine card to every person in class, boy and girl. Either that or Sharon Osbourne is into FF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelredd9 Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 I think we're all in agreement that how he plays will determine how much he plays. This is probably more true for him than any running back in the league. If he rushes well and doesn't miss blocking assignments, he could play 60% of snaps. If he plays average, he'll play 30%-40% of snaps. If Case Keenum gets blowed up, his snaps could go to zero. Royce Freeman has high trade value right now. If he gets outsnapped by Booker in week 1, his trade value will plummet to virtually zero. Now is the time to sell. Right now he can possibly be traded for a player like Tyreek Hill, Larry Fitzgerald, Travis Kelce, or LeSean McCoy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forever in debt to mo lewis Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 2 hours ago, Cowboyz1 said: The way I see it is this. Whether he can pass block is not so relevant as to how many carries he gets and most importantly, who is going to pound the ball on 1st 2nd and 3rd downs at the goal line. His value to me is simply he's the only back they seem to use at the goal line and he's their default starter. That is worth a 4th round pick IMO. If I have to get him in the 3rd I may pass depending on the situation but for me he's certainly worth a early 4th round pick a maybe a late 3rd for the simple fact that he will get the goal line carries and most likely will be on the field for a majority of Denver's snaps. I agree whole heartily that pass protection for a running back is critical for a starting RB but a willing and capable learner can pick that up and be serviceable fairly quickly. He's got the size that is a benefit and seems to have the feet to do a good job at it. Teams can do things to help the kid out early in the season with pass protection whether it be play calling or 12 personnel but the kid has talent and I have a good feeling they want him to be the starter and will do everything they can to help him in the areas he needs help in to be the starter. I picked him in the 5th and 4th rounds in most of my drafts. ive yet to hear or see anything that suggests hes struggling with pass protection.....the coach made a vague comment imo that applies to any rookie rb....at least thats how i view...others view the comment as a clear sign hes struggling in that department...i think hes just trying to pump the brakes on annointing him the next terrell davis is all.... through the years beat writers have picked up guys struggling in certain areas and theyve made it known..ive yet to see or hear anything about him struggling in pass protection and i agree...ive said it too...i think they want him to be the guy...which makes me think they are going to give him every chance to be that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forever in debt to mo lewis Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, michaelredd9 said: I think we're all in agreement that how he plays will determine how much he plays. This is probably more true for him than any running back in the league. If he rushes well and doesn't miss blocking assignments, he could play 60% of snaps. If he plays average, he'll play 30%-40% of snaps. If Case Keenum gets blowed up, his snaps could go to zero. Royce Freeman has high trade value right now. If he gets outsnapped by Booker in week 1, his trade value will plummet to virtually zero. Now is the time to sell. Right now he can possibly be traded for a player like Tyreek Hill, Larry Fitzgerald, Travis Kelce, or LeSean McCoy. what if hes outsnapped by 1 but ends up with more touches than booker? what if hes outsnapped but scored the only rushing td and has a higher ypc? what if they are splitting snaps and booker fumbles later in the game? Edited August 30, 2018 by forever in debt to mo lewis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboyz1 Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 26 minutes ago, forever in debt to mo lewis said: ive yet to hear or see anything that suggests hes struggling with pass protection.....the coach made a vague comment imo that applies to any rookie rb....at least thats how i view...others view the comment as a clear sign hes struggling in that department...i think hes just trying to pump the brakes on annointing him the next terrell davis is all.... through the years beat writers have picked up guys struggling in certain areas and theyve made it known..ive yet to see or hear anything about him struggling in pass protection and i agree...ive said it too...i think they want him to be the guy...which makes me think they are going to give him every chance to be that I never said he struggles in pass protection. That being said, it's rare for a rookie to come into this league knowing how to do it like a pro from the get go. So I don't think anyone should expect him to be good at it by now and if he was, he'd already be pretty special. So the fact that you don't hear about it only means that it's not a glaring issue for the guy and if you did hear about it that would be certainly something to be wary about because as a rookie even the coaches expect him to block like a rookie at first. By the way, I watched some film on the kid and I don't know who said the guy can't catch because I saw him catch on over the shoulder out pattern like a champ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forever in debt to mo lewis Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 5 minutes ago, LordOpie said: I'm sorry but stevegrab has exclusive rights to being contrary and semantics lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forever in debt to mo lewis Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 5 minutes ago, Cowboyz1 said: I never said he struggles in pass protection. That being said, it's rare for a rookie to come into this league knowing how to do it like a pro from the get go. So I don't think anyone should expect him to be good at it by now and if he was, he'd already be pretty special. So the fact that you don't hear about it only means that it's not a glaring issue for the guy and if you did hear about it that would be certainly something to be wary about because as a rookie even the coaches expect him to block like a rookie at first. By the way, I watched some film on the kid and I don't know who said the guy can't catch because I saw him catch on over the shoulder out pattern like a champ. i didnt say you said it...but try reading the thread...its been said by others Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboyz1 Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 4 hours ago, forever in debt to mo lewis said: i didnt say you said it...but try reading the thread...its been said by others Yep, all good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forever in debt to mo lewis Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 anybody watch the denver game last night? was freeman dressed? i see he didnt log a touch so im assuming he didnt enter the game? i see some guys like aaron jones and chubb did log some time and work last night.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelredd9 Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 Booker, Freeman and Lindsay all had the night off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indyrckstar Posted August 31, 2018 Author Share Posted August 31, 2018 I have change my mind with Royce so many times in the last 2 weeks that now I am just not sure which round to pick him. Especially for many of the reasons you guys listed. All I know for sure is i'll be getting a good RB on Sunday with the #3 pick. After that, just see how it goes... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stethant Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 7 minutes ago, indyrckstar said: I have change my mind with Royce so many times in the last 2 weeks that now I am just not sure which round to pick him. Especially for many of the reasons you guys listed. All I know for sure is i'll be getting a good RB on Sunday with the #3 pick. After that, just see how it goes... Yeah that's a good attitude to have. I will say, IIRC, that Forever in Debt kinda nailed the Gurley call last year - in case that sways you at all on who to listen to. Maybe it's the only time he's been right in 10yrs, I don't know, but I thought it was a bit impressive. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forever in debt to mo lewis Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 1 minute ago, stethant said: Yeah that's a good attitude to have. I will say, IIRC, that Forever in Debt kinda nailed the Gurley call last year - in case that sways you at all on who to listen to. Maybe it's the only time he's been right in 10yrs, I don't know, but I thought it was a bit impressive. I also called evans and Winston breaking out the year before....I was right twice in my life in back to back years! I'm on a roll! lol 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forever in debt to mo lewis Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 6 minutes ago, stethant said: Yeah that's a good attitude to have. I will say, IIRC, that Forever in Debt kinda nailed the Gurley call last year - in case that sways you at all on who to listen to. Maybe it's the only time he's been right in 10yrs, I don't know, but I thought it was a bit impressive. I know the preseason doesn't mean that much in the grand scheme......heck one guy (mixon) that had a bad preseason I still believe in....but booker has had about 250 regular season carries and hasn't cracked 4 ypc yet....and he couldn't do it again the preseason.......granted Denver hasn't had the best qb play the last couple of years.... I don't think freeman is the same caliber back/athlete as gurley...nor do I expect 19tds and whatever yardage total that freak gurley put up last year...I just think he has lead back written on him in Denver..i think he does what they want...and I think hes a more gifted runner than booker.....as ive said...freeman is a little bulky but he has good feet....had a great 3 cone and shuttle....hes that "downhill" guy.....if they are getting good qb play and playing good defense hes exactly the kind of guy that would excel in that environment.....if hes getting 18+ carries hes going to wear a D down and pop a 20 yarder here and there..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelredd9 Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 Freebird is essentially a handcuff. He might get the opportunity to be the main guy. But he'll probably be the 1b to a pesky veteran's 1a. If he is the main running back, he will have a low ceiling because he will get few receptions and because the Denver offensive line is below average. The lack of receptions will be the more important factor in his mediocrity. His ceiling is LeGarrette Blount. Good in real football, bad in fantasy football. His floor is the week 4 waiver wire. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdko Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 Devontae Booker is absolute crap. Freeman should have no issue wrestling the job away from him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forever in debt to mo lewis Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 48 minutes ago, michaelredd9 said: Freebird is essentially a handcuff. He might get the opportunity to be the main guy. But he'll probably be the 1b to a pesky veteran's 1a. If he is the main running back, he will have a low ceiling because he will get few receptions and because the Denver offensive line is below average. The lack of receptions will be the more important factor in his mediocrity. His ceiling is LeGarrette Blount. Good in real football, bad in fantasy football. His floor is the week 4 waiver wire. "pesky veteran"? since when is a guy with 250 career carries and a 3.65 ypc considered "pesky"? lol werent you the one, not long ago, saying that most backs receptions actually come on 1st and 2nd down as opposed to 3rd? so if we go on the notion that freeman will get snaps on 1st and 2nd wouldnt that mean he has a shot to catch some balls? you know he has 2 targets to bookers 1 this preseason right? i could totally be wrong...but i think people such as yourself are wayyyyy overreacting to josephs reluctance to name him the starter....its possible that booker comes out for the first 3 plays or 1st series and isnt seen again till the 2nd half........i think joseph is trying to keep expecations and the hype relatively low...if freeman gets in and does his thing booker wont be seeing much of the field you can bank on that..... denvers offensive line is average by my assessment....and their schedule is tied for the best in my estimation for the run game......those things average each other out imo i get the feeling freeman could go for 1200 and 10 tds and youd try to find something wrong with it.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forever in debt to mo lewis Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 12 minutes ago, kdko said: Devontae Booker is absolute crap. Freeman should have no issue wrestling the job away from him i hear you but because joseph wont outright name freeman the starter there is just no way freeman can excel or overtake the great d booker! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darin3 Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 I remain torn on this guy. I have a 10-team non PPR draft tonight and I'm almost positive I can get him WAY later than he's been going in drafts with more experienced owners. I will wait and pounce if he falls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelredd9 Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 1 hour ago, forever in debt to mo lewis said: werent you the one, not long ago, saying that most backs receptions actually come on 1st and 2nd down as opposed to 3rd? so if we go on the notion that freeman will get snaps on 1st and 2nd wouldnt that mean he has a shot to catch some balls? you know he has 2 targets to bookers 1 this preseason right? I am working on the assumption that he is a bad receiver. They won't throw to him if he is a bad receiver. There are plenty of early down power rushers who don't get many receptions. I will admit that my assumption that he is a bad receiver is based on little. But the assumption that he is a good receiver is based on less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forever in debt to mo lewis Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 (edited) 19 minutes ago, LordOpie said: Which is why I've been asking... How come that didn't already happen, like two months ago? Because Freeman might not be that good. its almost as if neither you or michael can consider the possibility that joseph is just keeping things low key with this rb spot....maybe hes worried about the hype or pressure getting out of hand this early? this made me chuckle slightly....not that i really take adam rank all that seriously...but.. "If there is one thing that doesn't concern me about the Broncos' running back situation, it's that Vance Joseph might start Devontae Booker over Royce Freeman in Week 1. I'm good. It's like when my dad would threaten to turn the car around while my sisters and I were acting up on family vacations. We understood the words coming out of his mouth, but we also knew he wasn't going to follow through on them. Freeman has done basically everything you could ask of a running back during the preseason. He's outperformed all the running backs in camp. He's scored a touchdown in three consecutive games. He's done so much, I bet he's even letting everyone use his Netflix password to watch GLOW during downtime" Edited August 31, 2018 by forever in debt to mo lewis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forever in debt to mo lewis Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 3 hours ago, michaelredd9 said: Freebird is essentially a handcuff. He might get the opportunity to be the main guy. But he'll probably be the 1b to a pesky veteran's 1a. If he is the main running back, he will have a low ceiling because he will get few receptions and because the Denver offensive line is below average. The lack of receptions will be the more important factor in his mediocrity. His ceiling is LeGarrette Blount. Good in real football, bad in fantasy football. His floor is the week 4 waiver wire. denvers OL ranked 9th in run blocking efficiency at football outsiders last year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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