Royce Freeman

[jamesplante11]

9 minutes ago, forever in debt to mo lewis said:

And the guy that took gronk there is a long shot....the guy that took Howard likes him a little more than most.....he wasn't making it out of that 2nd round in that draft I can tell u that.....the norm is a bunch of people with top 200 ppr lists taking guys that are ranked where they are picking .....not going on projection and feelings....Howard in the mid to late 2nd isn't a bad pick....gronk #3 overall certainly is 

 

So, If you dont agree with it its automatically a bad pick, but if you do agree then the owner must be a fantasy wiz not using top 200 ppr lists and his projections and feelings must be right?

 

Are you the guy that took Howard in the 2nd? If so it makes sense why your calling it a fantasy savant pick. If not idk what your arguing because Howard in the 2nd is a reach

[forever in debt to mo lewis]

1 minute ago, jamesplante11 said:

 

So, If you dont agree with it its automatically a bad pick, but if you do agree then the owner must be a fantasy wiz not using top 200 ppr lists and his projections and feelings must be right?

 

Are you the guy that took Howard in the 2nd? If so it makes sense why your calling it a fantasy savant pick. If not idk what your arguing because Howard in the 2nd is a reach

nope...didn't take howard.....but if he made it to me in that draft I would have taken him

 

but lets talk about things logically...what does gronk have to do to justify being taken #3 overall? what does howard have to do justify being taken as an rb2 in the 2nd? which is more likely

 

I think you know the answers here........and if you think theres a big drop off in the backs by the time u pick again in the 3rd then howard in the 2nd is not a reach.....howard has a good floor...weve seen his floor...we may not have seen his ceiling...especially with a new coach who is an offensive mind....while I don't put howard in the same category as gurley we saw what a change from an archaic scheme can do

 

heres james....not bound to anything logical...trying to pick another fight with me....yikes

 

I didn't call howard in the 2nd a "savant" pick...its just not a wild reach....or even a reach....maybe slight reach but if you have a good feeling on it and thi nk theres a dropoff by the time u pick again its not a reach....gronk #3 overall is a reach everywhere and everyone would agree...im willing to bet there are a few others here who have seen howard go in the 2nd

[michaelredd9]

1 hour ago, forever in debt to mo lewis said:

Lol....I said they ranked Denver's line 9th in run blocking efficiency last year guy....u are a waste of time 

 

PFF no longer gives different grades for run blocking and pass blocking for entire offensive lines.  But they ranked the top 10 run blocking offensive lines entering 2018 and Denver wasn't on the list.  Here are last year's PFF run-block grades for Denver's starting 5 offensive linemen:

Bolles 74.2

Leary 68.9

Paradis 67.6

McGovern 49.5

Veldheer 60.8

 

ESPN ranked Denver's offensive line 30th overall and gave them a grade of D- in run blocking for the 2018 season.  Only 1 team, Miami, had a worse run-blocking grade.

30. Denver Broncos

Overall grade: D+
Pass blocking: D-
Run blocking: D-
Stability/consistency: B+
Schedule: D-

About the best thing that can be said about this blocking wall is that the Broncos return 84.9 percent of their offensive line snaps, a total that ranks ninth best. That might not be a plus, given that Denver ranked 24th in GBR (38.8), 23rd in PPR (30.7) and 25th in TIP (2.3) last season. The Devontae Booker vs. Royce Freeman battle for carries is already limiting their upside, and the subpar blocking grade lowers that ceiling even more.

 

Edited September 5, 2018 by michaelredd9

[michaelredd9]

6 hours ago, forever in debt to mo lewis said:

 

1. his hands have been complimented as well....hes a capable receiver and several articles ive seen paint him as a 3 down back.

 

 

Still waiting on links to these articles you are citing.  I don't believe that you have a reputable source.

 

[jamesplante11]

30 minutes ago, forever in debt to mo lewis said:

nope...didn't take howard.....but if he made it to me in that draft I would have taken him

 

but lets talk about things logically...what does gronk have to do to justify being taken #3 overall? what does howard have to do justify being taken as an rb2 in the 2nd? which is more likely

 

I think you know the answers here........and if you think theres a big drop off in the backs by the time u pick again in the 3rd then howard in the 2nd is not a reach.....howard has a good floor...weve seen his floor...we may not have seen his ceiling...especially with a new coach who is an offensive mind....while I don't put howard in the same category as gurley we saw what a change from an archaic scheme can do

 

heres james....not bound to anything logical...trying to pick another fight with me....yikes

 

I didn't call howard in the 2nd a "savant" pick...its just not a wild reach....or even a reach....maybe slight reach but if you have a good feeling on it and thi nk theres a dropoff by the time u pick again its not a reach....gronk #3 overall is a reach everywhere and everyone would agree...im willing to bet there are a few others here who have seen howard go in the 2nd

 

I am not disagreeing that Gronk at 1.03 was a serious reach.

 

Here are some logical fact for you, that your going to disagree with because that is what you do.

 

Howard had 8 games last year with 15+ points.

Howard had 8 games with less than 10 points

 

of those 8 games with less than 10 points, 6 of them were less than 6.5 points

 

Howard never went on a run of good games last season, it was every other game.

 

14.8 

0.7

31.5

13.9

7.6

19

6.5

15.1

5.4

19.5

3.2

4.8

29

9.2

16.4

2.2

 

He is constantly inconsistent. Not to mention that Cohen is clearly the explosive pass catching back. The Bears also just brought in a new HC in Nagy, Trubisky is going into his 2nd year, they brought in a ton of offensive weapons. In my opinion you are going to see more of a 50/50 split between Cohen and Howard. Cohen is a much better pass protector, and pass catching back than Howard

 

Here is a list of running backs going in the 2nd-4th rounds I would rather have over Howard.

 

Dalvin Cook

Christian McCaffery

Melvin Gordon

 

I would even rather have Lamar Miller over Howard.

 

Was that factually based enough for you?

Edited September 5, 2018 by jamesplante11

[kdko]

56 minutes ago, jamesplante11 said:

Here is a list of running backs going in the 2nd-4th rounds I would rather have over Howard.

 

Dalvin Cook

Christian McCaffery

Melvin Gordon

 

I would even rather have Lamar Miller over Howard.

 

Was that factually based enough for you?

 

Gordon hasn't made it out of the 1st in any draft i've done.  And Miller over Howard?  C'mon man.  Miller has regressed every year since he's gotten into the league.  His longest run last year? 21 yards.. For a RB that was drafted because he was a speedy RB, that's awful.  

[jamesplante11]

15 minutes ago, kdko said:

 

Gordon hasn't made it out of the 1st in any draft i've done.  And Miller over Howard?  C'mon man.  Miller has regressed every year since he's gotten into the league.  His longest run last year? 21 yards.. For a RB that was drafted because he was a speedy RB, that's awful.  

 

Gordon has been early 2nd in all mine, but it wouldn't surprise me seeing him go in the first.

 

Miller is the clear cut #1 in Houston until at least week 6 because Foreman is starting the year on the PUP list. He posted double digit fantasy points in 10 of 12 games before week 14 last season. With a healthy Deshaun Watson and the fact that he has shed down to ~215lbs I expect him to have a good season

 

I am not saying run out and grab him as your RB1, but I wouldn't want Howard as my RB1 either. I am perfectly happy with him as a RB2 and would prefer him, being the bell cow in Houston, over Howard splitting shares in a much more efficient passing attack than years past

 

He even has his coaches support as a "3 down back"

Edited September 5, 2018 by jamesplante11

[darin3]

 

[kdko]

13 minutes ago, jamesplante11 said:

 

Gordon has been early 2nd in all mine, but it wouldn't surprise me seeing him go in the first.

 

Miller is the clear cut #1 in Houston until at least week 6 because Foreman is starting the year on the PUP list. He posted double digit fantasy points in 10 of 12 games before week 14 last season. With a healthy Deshaun Watson and the fact that he has shed down to ~215lbs I expect him to have a good season

 

I am not saying run out and grab him as your RB1, but I wouldn't want Howard as my RB1 either. I am perfectly happy with him as a RB2 and would prefer him, being the bell cow in Houston, over Howard splitting shares in a much more efficient passing attack than years past

 

He even has his coaches support as a "3 down back"

 

I question Miller's ability to handle a full workload, especially behind that bad O-Line.  He's always had a RB to help him handle the load, and plays better like that.

[jamesplante11]

5 minutes ago, kdko said:

 

I question Miller's ability to handle a full workload, especially behind that bad O-Line.  He's always had a RB to help him handle the load, and plays better like that.

 

Fair enough, I wont argue any of that.

 

 

Another little piece on Miller when Watson is in the game, per the Washington Post, and I believe the stats came from PFF

 

"Miller was the No. 8 RB in both PPR and standard leagues over the seven games Watson started last year, scoring four of his six season touchdowns in Watson’s starts."

[kdko]

1 minute ago, jamesplante11 said:

 

Fair enough, I wont argue any of that.

 

 

Another little piece on Miller when Watson is in the game, per the Washington Post, and I believe the stats came from PFF

 

"Miller was the No. 8 RB in both PPR and standard leagues over the seven games Watson started last year, scoring four of his six season touchdowns in Watson’s starts."

 

Yeah, he performed well with Watson.  As a Watson owner, I have the same fear for him behind that O-Line.  They both need each other.

[darin3]

Y'all are trapping a lot of good info on Miller in this thread.... back to Freeman!  

[stevegrab]

Ahh yes, a good ole Huddle Forum pissing match.....

[stevegrab]

11 minutes ago, LordOpie said:

Yeah man, where you been? 

 

Keeping myself clean of the yellow stuff. 

[forever in debt to mo lewis]

5 hours ago, LordOpie said:

so that puts Freeman at about the #8 RB in a PPR. So you think he'll be a top 10 RB? If you look at the ADP list, do you think top 10 is correct?

What I'm asking is... when you look at the list of names of all the RBs, does your instinct say that there are only 7-8 other RBs that are better? Do the names match up to the numbers?

 

EDIT: MFL has Royce at the #22 RB... http://www03.myfantasyleague.com/2018/adp?COUNT=32&POS=RB&ROOKIES=0&INJURED=1&CUTOFF=5&FRANCHISES=-1&IS_PPR=1&IS_KEEPER=0&IS_MOCK=0&TIME=1533096000

FFC has him at #15... https://fantasiyfootballcalculator.com/adp/ppr/12-team/running-back

opie...i dont go to mfl...never been there....dont care what they say.......every site has rankings...yahoo...espn...rtsports.....ive looked at a bunch of sites rankings and every time i see things i disagree with or stuff that i think its even completely wacko.....

 

every year there are top 10 entrants and top 10 dropouts.....yes...i can see freeman being a top 10 rb....if thats what you are asking

[forever in debt to mo lewis]

5 hours ago, michaelredd9 said:

 

PFF no longer gives different grades for run blocking and pass blocking for entire offensive lines.  But they ranked the top 10 run blocking offensive lines entering 2018 and Denver wasn't on the list.  Here are last year's PFF run-block grades for Denver's starting 5 offensive linemen:

Bolles 74.2

Leary 68.9

Paradis 67.6

McGovern 49.5

Veldheer 60.8

 

ESPN ranked Denver's offensive line 30th overall and gave them a grade of D- in run blocking for the 2018 season.  Only 1 team, Miami, had a worse run-blocking grade.

30. Denver Broncos

Overall grade: D+
Pass blocking: D-
Run blocking: D-
Stability/consistency: B+
Schedule: D-

About the best thing that can be said about this blocking wall is that the Broncos return 84.9 percent of their offensive line snaps, a total that ranks ninth best. That might not be a plus, given that Denver ranked 24th in GBR (38.8), 23rd in PPR (30.7) and 25th in TIP (2.3) last season. The Devontae Booker vs. Royce Freeman battle for carries is already limiting their upside, and the subpar blocking grade lowers that ceiling even more.

 

thats great...

 

but heres what you gave me...."my site is more reputable than yours"...and "my site graded denvers olinemen all crap"...even though i said that football outsiders ranked them 9th best in run blocking efficiency(this isnt a projection this is a grade as a run blocking unit) as a unit...you gave me crap overall grades...not for run blocking...then you gave me espn predicting them to be a D- for the upcoming year....football outsiders based theirs on actual metrics from last years games....

[forever in debt to mo lewis]

4 hours ago, jamesplante11 said:

 

I am not disagreeing that Gronk at 1.03 was a serious reach.

 

Here are some logical fact for you, that your going to disagree with because that is what you do.

 

Howard had 8 games last year with 15+ points.

Howard had 8 games with less than 10 points

 

of those 8 games with less than 10 points, 6 of them were less than 6.5 points

 

Howard never went on a run of good games last season, it was every other game.

 

14.8 

0.7

31.5

13.9

7.6

19

6.5

15.1

5.4

19.5

3.2

4.8

29

9.2

16.4

2.2

 

He is constantly inconsistent. Not to mention that Cohen is clearly the explosive pass catching back. The Bears also just brought in a new HC in Nagy, Trubisky is going into his 2nd year, they brought in a ton of offensive weapons. In my opinion you are going to see more of a 50/50 split between Cohen and Howard. Cohen is a much better pass protector, and pass catching back than Howard

 

Here is a list of running backs going in the 2nd-4th rounds I would rather have over Howard.

 

Dalvin Cook

Christian McCaffery

Melvin Gordon

 

I would even rather have Lamar Miller over Howard.

 

Was that factually based enough for you?

well yeah i would take cook, cmac and gordon before howard too...problem is...in my draft where howard went 17 all those guys were already gone....because i dont play in leagues where gronk goes #3 overall

 

and again...you are basing your projection on what he did do.....with john fox and mike glennon/rookie trubisky....yeah they have more weapons and a better offensive minded HC....and some more weapons .......remind you of anyone? st louis? 2nd year goff? highest scoring offense in the league? ......people look too much at what already happened....thats why everyone was so bummed about gurley last year.......

 

not saying howard is going to be gurley....heck im not even saying howard will def live up to a 2nd round draft spot....but its NOT a reach by any means....especially if you have a feeling about him and dont think he makes it back to you in the 3rd.....

 

if youre living in that world where you base everything off of previous years...you arent going to do very well imo

 

weve seen howard hit 5 yards a carry....almost 30 catches....1300 yards....and one shy of double digit tds.......with a lil pep in the offense....more creative play calling and improved play all around on offense....all of those are achievable...i also have him with a top 10 run schedule...6th best in fact....if you disagree thats cool im not going argue against it......but its NOT a reach in the 2nd...if he made it to me i would have done it without hesitation

Edited September 5, 2018 by forever in debt to mo lewis

[forever in debt to mo lewis]

1 minute ago, LordOpie said:

ok, great. i'm glad you see him as a top 10.

also, those aren't rankings, those are ADP. Are you familiar with the utility of ADP?

i know what adp is...im also not tied to it when i draft....im not afraid to take guys two rounds "ahead of schedule" if i think they will outperform it.....i dont clutch to ADP at all...in fact i almost ignore completely...i have rankings that i work off.....and i also have guys i like more than most places

[stevegrab]

8 minutes ago, LordOpie said:

uhh, asians?

No the piss flying in the wind as you guys try to out whiz each other. 

 

I'm sure there is some good info buried somewhere in this thread, but good luck finding it. 

[forever in debt to mo lewis]

3 minutes ago, LordOpie said:

i think it's a mistake to ignore ADP. I'm not saying to use it for your personal use, but Average Draft Position has great value. Since August 1, 2018, there have been 4500+ drafts on MFL. That is a lot of draft data. This means, the Average person is drafting that player at that spot. Let's say you love Chris Carson SEA RB who is being drafted at spot 100. You believe he's a top 50 guy... so why draft him at #50 when you can safely draft him at #75 and instead take another guy you like that has an ADP of #60 at spot #50.

make sense?

I think you're making a mistake to ignore the utility of ADP.

sure opie...i could use ADP....as a tool

 

but see...when im talking freeman....i picked 1,23 and 26....then again at 47 and 51......if i dont take freeman there at 26 im not seeing him...no way in hell, in that league, he makes it back...and i wanted him...hes the last back i would have taken there....if he had gone between my picks 23 and 26 i would have gone wiht a receiver

 

in your carson analogy...the problem becomes if someone else covets him(which u dont know) and grabs him at 70.....then u didnt get your guy

Edited September 5, 2018 by forever in debt to mo lewis

[forever in debt to mo lewis]

3 minutes ago, stevegrab said:

No the piss flying in the wind as you guys try to out whiz each other. 

 

I'm sure there is some good info buried somewhere in this thread, but good luck finding it. 

oh theres plenty of good stuff in here...you really should read through the thread...

[Def.]

14 minutes ago, LordOpie said:

uhh, asians?

 

inapprops...but funny. 

[stevegrab]

Just now, LordOpie said:

so your contribution is to also pee all over the thread? Sounds about right for you.

 

Sorry we can't all be world class comedians like you. 

[forever in debt to mo lewis]

6 minutes ago, LordOpie said:

sure, you can nitpick anything. Great. Someone grabs him at 70. you can find fault in any method.

let's change the view... the other utility of ADP is a reality check. I use it often to boost values of players that I dislike. If I take a guy off the board, but his ADP is 100, then maybe I should re-evaluate. Make sense?

I'm trying to help you up your game. When was the last time you finished top three? How often do you finish top three?

my last 4 years

 

3rd, 1st, 2nd, 4th

 

in the money each time

 

but i always appreciate tips and ways to improve opie...no question.....i just like to get my guys......im not the greatest...and ive had some manure years myself

 

even in your carson analogy....carson comes up to you at 75 and you start thinking "but i could probably wait another round"...and hes gone...u didnt get your guy......

 

my opinion of freeman is not that far off.....when you are taking ADP when do those drafts start? from the start of the summer and camp? if freeman is going in 5th and 6ths in the start of the summer...but is not going in 3rds.....whats the verdict? 

 

the huddles ranking of freeman is 39th? i think? overall in ppr.....so me taking him in the 3rd doesnt feel like a reach to me despite what his MFL ADP might be......not all leagues/drafts are as competitive as the next....some of them include real dummy leagues and office leagues

Edited September 5, 2018 by forever in debt to mo lewis

[forever in debt to mo lewis]

3 minutes ago, LordOpie said:

dude, click the link...

http://www03.myfantasyleague.com/2018/adp?COUNT=32&POS=RB&ROOKIES=0&INJURED=1&CUTOFF=5&FRANCHISES=-1&IS_PPR=1&IS_KEEPER=0&IS_MOCK=0&TIME=1525147200

adjust the settings. You can see that you can set how far back you go in 15 day increments. So when I said 4500 drafts since Aug.1, that was the setting I used.

Look, you like a guy, you reach. It's that simple. I can't fault you for that. I had people last year give me crap about acquiring Ertz and Thielen in every league. I bought lower than their actual value, so good. You like a guy, go get him!

yep...i just clicked...its a neat feature for sure....but like i said...how many of those leagues are competitive? thats kind of uknown....how many of those are homer leagues where ryan tannehill goes in the 1st to the #1 dolphins superfan? lol

 

like i said....i use several factors to compose my own rankings...my own position groups and overall rankings...i go off that.....