Brad Allen referee missed call in DET/DAL game

[purplemonster]

This story is a bit fishy. The referee says some other guy reported as eligible but there is video evidence and lot of other eyewitness testimony from the DET HC, Goff, and Decker (the guy who was supposed to be eligible) that said it was done correctly. From what I can tell, this referee had a brain fart of the biggest degree and isn't owning up to it, or he's on the take, or there is some other misunderstanding that hasn't been reported yet. This one call 100% determined the game.

https://sports.yahoo.com/lions-issue-officials-potential-winning-064530837.html

ARLINGTON, Texas (AP) — Detroit coach Dan Campbell said he explained to officials before playing the Dallas Cowboys what would happen on a 2-point conversion play the Lions had planned.

Chaos ensued anyway, and left the Lions feeling as if a victory was taken away from the NFC North winners in their pursuit of the top seed in the NFC playoffs.

Officials ruled offensive lineman Taylor Decker wasn't an eligible receiver when he caught a 2-point conversion pass that would have given Detroit a one-point lead with 23 seconds remaining.

Instead, the Lions (11-5) lost to the Cowboys 20-19 on Saturday night when the third 2-point try was an incomplete pass short of the goal line.

Jared Goff threw an interception on the attempt after Decker's catch was disallowed, but Dallas was offsides.

The explanations contradicted each other, with Goff saying he was certain Decker reported as an eligible receiver and Dan Skipper had not. In a pool report, referee Brad Allen said the opposite, that Decker didn't report and Skipper did.

“I don’t want to talk about it,” said Campbell, who was visibly angry with Allen when they talked after the officials made the ruling. “I explain everything pregame to a tee, OK? I did that.”

Allen said Skipper, a backup tackle, reported to him as an eligible receiver, but then went to tackle spot, which meant he didn't have to report at all. Decker, the starting left tackle, was already in the game.

Video showed Decker having a conversation with Allen, who then said something to the Dallas defense.

“That conversation is where (Skipper) reports to me, and I then go to the defensive team, and I say to them ‘(Skipper) has reported as an eligible receiver,’ so they will be aware of who has reported and then I return to my position,” Allen said in the pool report. “That was the conversation with the defensive line.”

Decker's conversation with officials came after Goff's 11-yard touchdown pass to Amon-Ra St. Brown. Campbell said he had already told his team he would go for the win if the Lions scored.

“All I really want to say on it, just so I don’t get myself into trouble, is I did exactly what coach told me to do,” Decker said. “It was my understanding, too, Dan brings up the possibility of those sorts of plays pregame, so I did what I was told to do. Did how we did it in practice all week.”

Goff pleaded Detroit's case as officials discussed what they were going to call.

“Very confused,” Goff said. “What I do know, and I don’t know if I’ll get fined for this, but I do know that Decker reported. I do know that Dan Skipper did not. I do know that they said that Dan Skipper did.”

The Cowboys (11-5) extended their home winning streak to 16 games — and finished the regular season 8-0 at home — by rallying from a fourth-quarter deficit at AT&T Stadium for the second time this season.

McCarthy said he was told Skipper was announced as eligible, but that Skipper lined up in a way that made Decker an ineligible receiver.

“That was a 2-point extravaganza,” Dallas coach Mike McCarthy said. “It looked like training camp, lining up and going at it for three or four plays. Great fight and finish by both teams.”

___

AP NFL: https://apnews.com/hub/nfl

[stevegrab]

I posted in another thread about this yesterday, including an article that had some of the video of the OL players talking to the ref before the 2ot conversion. 

As I said there, seems the Lions were trying to confuse the defense by having multiple guys approach the ref, first it was Decker and another OL, then it was Skipper as the ref walks away from the other two. (With Skipper #70 having his hands on his chest in as if he was signaling he is eligible by wiping down on the numbers.)

Some people online claim there is audio of the OL talking to the ref, haven't seen it and not sure it would be that clear or decisive. 

In the end it could be a simple mistake, Decker tells ref he is eligible, ref forgets number (two guys approached him) he looks back and sees 70 Skipper with hands on his chest and thinks it is him. The attempted deception of the defense backfired. 

Tried to find that part of the video, but don't see it now. 

Another story saying the NFL is not likely to change the policy for reporting eligible players and how this confusion occurred. 

https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/nfl-has-no-plan-to-change-procedure-for-reporting-as-eligible

"In a nutshell, the Lions sent offensive lineman Dan Skipper — who routinely reports as eligible as the tight end in jumbo sets — onto the field. Skipper ran toward referee Brad Allen, as if Skipper were reporting as eligible. At the same time, two other offensive lineman (including tackle Taylor Decker) approached Allen from the other direction.

Allen interpreted the exchange as Skipper, not Decker, reporting as eligible."

 

[Def.]

If the ref got it wrong then he got it wrong and there is no excusing that.  It very much appears he got it wrong, and the crew that's had multiple issues this year already should probably be assigned to the most inconsequential game this week instead of a prime time game. 

[purplemonster]

Thank you to both. I forgot what the saying is called about never attribute to malice what can be attributed to incompetence. it's a great phrase and it's usually true. I assumed most likely this was a mistake or misunderstanding, and I should have  reordered my options to put 'on the take' last because I think it was the least likely of the options, but given the huge betting amounts and the parity it is essential the NFL does its best to get the officiating correct. To me the biggest existential threat to the league is a betting scandal with the referees.

Edited January 3 by purplemonster

[gilthorp]

My opinion is DET tried to get tricky and created too much confusion. Plenty of blame to go around, and Dallas lucked out because of it. They will need more of that.

[stevegrab]

2 hours ago, Def. said:

If the ref got it wrong then he got it wrong and there is no excusing that.  It very much appears he got it wrong, and the crew that's had multiple issues this year already should probably be assigned to the most inconsequential game this week instead of a prime time game. 

Allen is working the PIT-BAL at 4:30PM, a nationally broadcast game (not really prime time). Sure it will have many viewers and people will boo when they see Allen doing the game. I did hear that he was downgraded and unlikely to work any playoff games. (No idea how crews are selected for regular season games, if there is "best crew gets the most important games" kind of thing or not.)

There may not be a lot of games without playoff implications (or draft order position) in play. CIN-CLE is one without playoffs, Browns are locked in at #5 in AFC. I think KC-LAC and DEN-LVR are also not impacting playoffs. Looks like every NFC game has some playoff implications. 

Edited January 3 by stevegrab

[stevegrab]

I just read this, as I thought the referee assignments were made weeks before the DET-DAL

Text from story linked below

Instead, a source tells CBS Sports that Week 18 assignments for officials went out as early as the first week of December.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/referee-brad-allen-assigned-another-national-tv-game-how-it-happened-and-is-it-an-endorsement-by-league/ar-AA1mpXJ9?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=e42a5ce2c56c493199a383b46bdc1f18&ei=13

[Def.]

9 minutes ago, stevegrab said:

Allen is working the PIT-BAL at 4:30PM, a nationally broadcast game (not really prime time). Sure it will have many viewers and people will boo when they see Allen doing the game. I did hear that he was downgraded and unlikely to work any playoff games. (No idea how crews are selected for regular season games, if there is "best crew gets the most important games" kind of thing or not.)

There may not be a lot of games without playoff implications (or draft order position) in play. CIN-CLE is one without playoffs, Browns are locked in at #5 in AFC. I think KC-LAC and DEN-LVR are also not impacting playoffs. Looks like every NFC game has some playoff implications. 

Dude, it's a Saturday game with no other games going at the same time.  That's prime time, a highlighted game. 

[Montana is da Man]

47 minutes ago, Def. said:

Dude, it's a Saturday game with no other games going at the same time.  That's prime time, a highlighted game. 

With playoff implications

[TripleW64]

In all the discussion regarding the missed call on the two-point conversion, the mistake on the tripping call is being overlooked.Tony Pollard's 7-yard run on 1st and 10 at the 29 was called back after Dallas tight end Peyton Hendershot was called for tripping, and the Cowboys faced a first-and-25 on the Lions' 44.

Video of that initial first-down play, reviewed by ESPN, showed that Lions defensive end Aidan Hutchinson -- not Hendershot -- should have been the one flagged for attempting to trip Pollard.  If the correct call is made the Cowboys have 1st and 10 inside the 20 instead of 1st and 25 at the 44. A penalty against the Lions on that play would have set up the Cowboys with a first down after the two-minute warning and a chance to run more of the clock while forcing the Lions to use their remaining timeouts.

Just boils down to bad officiating during crucial moments of a football game.

[rajncajn]

7 hours ago, stevegrab said:

I posted in another thread about this yesterday, including an article that had some of the video of the OL players talking to the ref before the 2ot conversion. 

As I said there, seems the Lions were trying to confuse the defense by having multiple guys approach the ref, first it was Decker and another OL, then it was Skipper as the ref walks away from the other two. (With Skipper #70 having his hands on his chest in as if he was signaling he is eligible by wiping down on the numbers.)

Some people online claim there is audio of the OL talking to the ref, haven't seen it and not sure it would be that clear or decisive. 

In the end it could be a simple mistake, Decker tells ref he is eligible, ref forgets number (two guys approached him) he looks back and sees 70 Skipper with hands on his chest and thinks it is him. The attempted deception of the defense backfired. 

Tried to find that part of the video, but don't see it now. 

Another story saying the NFL is not likely to change the policy for reporting eligible players and how this confusion occurred. 

https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/nfl-has-no-plan-to-change-procedure-for-reporting-as-eligible

"In a nutshell, the Lions sent offensive lineman Dan Skipper — who routinely reports as eligible as the tight end in jumbo sets — onto the field. Skipper ran toward referee Brad Allen, as if Skipper were reporting as eligible. At the same time, two other offensive lineman (including tackle Taylor Decker) approached Allen from the other direction.

Allen interpreted the exchange as Skipper, not Decker, reporting as eligible."

 

It's the referees job to know and announce who is eligible. If they got it wrong because they were confused or because another player made some hand gesture, then that is on the refs to not catch that there were two players supposedly claiming to be eligible and possibly (likely IMO) an issue with the process of declaring as an eligible player. Hand gestures or 'wiping one's numbers' is just a stupid way of making that declaration and I seriously doubt that that hand gestures for that process are in the rulebook. If one player (Decker) verbally reported as eligible and the refs got confused because of whatever other hijinx were going on then that is a failure of the officiating crew, period.

[rajncajn]

5 hours ago, purplemonster said:

Thank you to both. I forgot what the saying is called about never attribute to malice what can be attributed to incompetence. it's a great phrase and it's usually true. I assumed most likely this was a mistake or misunderstanding, and I should have  reordered my options to put 'on the take' last because I think it was the least likely of the options, but given the huge betting amounts and the parity it is essential the NFL does its best to get the officiating correct. To me the biggest existential threat to the league is a betting scandal with the referees.

I don't think anyone here is claiming there was any malicious intent.

[stevegrab]

14 hours ago, rajncajn said:

It's the referees job to know and announce who is eligible. If they got it wrong because they were confused or because another player made some hand gesture, then that is on the refs to not catch that there were two players supposedly claiming to be eligible and possibly (likely IMO) an issue with the process of declaring as an eligible player. Hand gestures or 'wiping one's numbers' is just a stupid way of making that declaration and I seriously doubt that that hand gestures for that process are in the rulebook. If one player (Decker) verbally reported as eligible and the refs got confused because of whatever other hijinx were going on then that is a failure of the officiating crew, period.

Yep the ref made a mistake, I clearly stated that. The play as run, with the multiple linemen moving towards the ref and doing stuff caused the confusion leading to that mistake. Even some Lions fans have admitted that. Heck I think the coach basically said that if one can read between the lines. 

14 hours ago, rajncajn said:

I don't think anyone here is claiming there was any malicious intent.

Every time there is a bad call by a ref many people (including some here) claim it is because of gambling and sports being fixed. That's a malicious intent. After time and calming down those saying the ref cheated to help the score/outcome may back off, but they've already "claimed it". 

 

As for the use of the hand gesture, the league talks about it but the rules I read don't include and say the player must communicate that to the official verbally. The league sent a memo out about this.

https://www.nfl.com/news/league-sends-video-to-teams-regarding-players-with-ineligible-numbers-reporting-

[rajncajn]

17 minutes ago, stevegrab said:

Every time there is a bad call by a ref many people (including some here) claim it is because of gambling and sports being fixed. That's a malicious intent. After time and calming down those saying the ref cheated to help the score/outcome may back off, but they've already "claimed it". 

I don't see a single post on the subject, other than the one I responded to, where anyone said or hinted anything about malicious intent, game-fixing or gambling. I see people complaining that the officials screwed up (again) during a crucial point in the game and you explaining to everyone how it was Detroit's fault.