Gunther Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 See, this is why Kevan Barlow is NOT overrated--he's just not very good. Is there anybody even vaguely interested in professional football who honestly thinks this he's a special back? Peace policy 635664[/snapback] Well, *I* overrated him for my draft, that is for sure. But I have learned that he is not nearly as special as I thought he was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boat_hacked Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 But as for Roethlisberger I think you are way off. To say he is just along for the ride is to ignore the fact that a Rookie QB has stepped in and performed at a nearly unprecedented level for a Rookie QB. Aside from winning his first 12 starts, or whatever he's up to now... He's completing over 66% of his passes. He has more than 1 TD per game with 17 Passing and 1 Rushing TD in 14 games He has only 11 INT's in those same 14 games He's averaging nearly 9 yds per attempt And his Passer Rating is 98.1 I disagree... Ben may develop into a great QB, but performing at an "unprecedented" level??? it's not to hard to take the plays from the sideline and handoff the ball. Pitt play-calling this year: 61%run/39% pass. NFL avg. is 45/55% resepectively. The next lowest pass. % team is the Falcons at 46%. So, I can't see how Ben performed at an "unprecedented level." Cowher knows he has raw talent at QB and to minimize the mistakes runs the heck out of the rock, as his play-calling indicates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phenom Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 I disagree... Ben may develop into a great QB, but performing at an "unprecedented" level??? it's not to hard to take the plays from the sideline and handoff the ball. Pitt play-calling this year: 61%run/39% pass. NFL avg. is 45/55% resepectively. The next lowest pass. % team is the Falcons at 46%. So, I can't see how Ben performed at an "unprecedented level." Cowher knows he has raw talent at QB and to minimize the mistakes runs the heck out of the rock, as his play-calling indicates. 636002[/snapback] I think that's the best point you can make that Roethlisberger is just caretaking the Steeler offense............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monsters Of The Midway Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 If we were to measure the ratio of pounds of hype to ounces of results, I'd have to say Tatum Freaking Bell. My god, did this guy get talked up this year. And not that it's his fault with Shanahanigans at the helm, but he, in total, has done nothing. 635988[/snapback] Overrated or Overhyped? HUGH difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 Overrated or Overhyped? HUGH difference. 636032[/snapback] I think Overhyped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheezhed Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 At this season's draft, it was definitely Kevin Barlow!!! And now that the season is all but over, Barlow is still near top. My top 5 would go like this 1. Hasselbeck (alot of people's super bowl choice) 2. Barlow ( went from a must draft to a must trade) 3. Jeff Garcia ( no T.O......no TDs) 4. Vick (West coast offense whats that?) 5. Joey Harrington (dude is just terrible, i think he had more weeks at neg. pts than positive) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Front Row Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 Ok so he injures his hamstring and you're not going to draft the biggest FF WR next year? Umm...No. Even without the injury, he's an overated hotdog. Sad thing is he got great size & skills , but he's a punk,only plays hard when he wants to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 Umm...No. Even without the injury, he's an overated hotdog. Sad thing is he got great size & skills , but he's a punk,only plays hard when he wants to. 636137[/snapback] Even without the injury and not playing hard, his stats would have been insane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Front Row Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 Yea, when he shows up,What about the games he doesn't feel like playing & you bench another WR? Some games he gets crazy points,the next week he'll get you 3 catches. I speak from experience . That being said; I'll still probably start him Sun. over Kennison/Clayton I wont pick him early in the draft again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrick35 Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 I disagree... Ben may develop into a great QB, but performing at an "unprecedented" level??? it's not to hard to take the plays from the sideline and handoff the ball. Pitt play-calling this year: 61%run/39% pass. NFL avg. is 45/55% resepectively. The next lowest pass. % team is the Falcons at 46%. So, I can't see how Ben performed at an "unprecedented level." Cowher knows he has raw talent at QB and to minimize the mistakes runs the heck out of the rock, as his play-calling indicates. 636002[/snapback] Ok here's what I said... But as for Roethlisberger I think you are way off. To say he is just along for the ride is to ignore the fact that a Rookie QB has stepped in and performed at a nearly unprecedented level for a Rookie QB. Aside from winning his first 12 starts, or whatever he's up to now... So when I said "unprecedented" I was obviously referring to Rookie QB's. The single season record for completion % for a Qualifying Rookie is 58.45 and is held by Marino. Ben is over 66% on the year. Unprecedented for a Rookie QB. The single season record for Passer Rating at QB is 96 again held by Marino. Ben is over 98. Unprecedented for a Rookie QB. Ben has won his first 13 starts. No other Rookie QB has done that. Unprecedented for a rookie QB. The record for average gain per attempt for a rookie is 9.411. Ben is at 8.88. Not unprecedented for a Rookie QB but pretty freaking close. Take the rookie records he is setting and combine them with the fact that he has not lost a game yet as a starter and you are seeing a season like no other from a Rookie QB. His success as a Rookie QB is unprecedented. And I see posts on here all the time about how one veteran QB or the other has blown a game with an INT or a lost fumble or just a bad pass. Ben the Rookie hasn't done that yet. And yes Pittsburgh is running more than passing but Ben has averaged more than 21 passes a game. That's plenty of chances to throw INT's and make mistakes. But he has only thrown 11 picks. He is having an unprecedented Rookie Season at QB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 Yea, when he shows up,What about the games he doesn't feel like playing & you bench another WR?Some games he gets crazy points,the next week he'll get you 3 catches. I speak from experience . That being said; I'll still probably start him Sun. over Kennison/Clayton I wont pick him early in the draft again. 636147[/snapback] WRs are probably the hardest position to decide who to start. But wouldn't you rather have Moss with a way better chance of getting 3 TDs than some person you picked up off the FA after they had a big game? I'd be able to sleep at night knowing I'm starting Moss and my opponent has either Kennison, Clayton, or Porter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menudo Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 Ok here's what I said... So when I said "unprecedented" I was obviously referring to Rookie QB's. The single season record for completion % for a Qualifying Rookie is 58.45 and is held by Marino. Ben is over 66% on the year. Unprecedented for a Rookie QB. The single season record for Passer Rating at QB is 96 again held by Marino. Ben is over 98. Unprecedented for a Rookie QB. Ben has won his first 13 starts. No other Rookie QB has done that. Unprecedented for a rookie QB. The record for average gain per attempt for a rookie is 9.411. Ben is at 8.88. Not unprecedented for a Rookie QB but pretty freaking close. Take the rookie records he is setting and combine them with the fact that he has not lost a game yet as a starter and you are seeing a season like no other from a Rookie QB. His success as a Rookie QB is unprecedented. And I see posts on here all the time about how one veteran QB or the other has blown a game with an INT or a lost fumble or just a bad pass. Ben the Rookie hasn't done that yet. And yes Pittsburgh is running more than passing but Ben has averaged more than 21 passes a game. That's plenty of chances to throw INT's and make mistakes. But he has only thrown 11 picks. He is having an unprecedented Rookie Season at QB. 636169[/snapback] Great Post !!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh 0ne Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 And you Vikes fans are happy with that? You don't mind sitting at home every year during the playoffs, as long as your boys shred the Lions? That's worth $100 million of your money?blah, blah, blah. The crowning achievement of the Vikings under his leadership is getting buttwhooped 42-0 in the NFC championship game by a very mediocre Giants team. You're proving my point exactly: he puts up stats against nobodies, and then with a superior supporting cast CAN'T DO SQUAT when it comes down to crunch time. Over and over, year after year, C-Pep and the Vikes find a way to blow it. Culpepper can throw for 100 TDs, but if they go 7-9, who cares? Peace policy 635631[/snapback] Too funny. You think the the fact that over the past 5 years the Vikings have one of the worst defenses in the NFL had nothing to do with them being unsuccesful? They go 7-9, Cpep throws 40 TD's, they have one of the best offenses, Cpep has great stats, but it's his fault they're losing? Laughable. Great argument. I guess Manning is overrated too. I mean, it's clearly his fault that the Colts haven't been able to win a SuperBowl or even get there. And that McNabb guy really stinks it up too. McNabb has a solid defense around him so he must be the worst of the bunch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Johnies Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 Ok so he injures his hamstring and you're not going to draft the biggest FF WR next year? 635440[/snapback] Not in the 1st or second round. Next year's draft should be a lot deeper at rb and Culpepper, TO, Manning and Mcnabb are better non rb draft picks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrick35 Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 (edited) Yea, when he shows up,What about the games he doesn't feel like playing & you bench another WR?Some games he gets crazy points,the next week he'll get you 3 catches. I speak from experience . That being said; I'll still probably start him Sun. over Kennison/Clayton I wont pick him early in the draft again. 636147[/snapback] That's true of any Top WR. Not one WR puts up great stats every week. Edited December 30, 2004 by Jrick35 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steeler Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 THE MOST OVERRATED PLAYER634553[/snapback] Why do you insist on using all caps in the title of your posts It annoys me so very much Ahhhhhhhhhh, never mind :doah: shtick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted January 1, 2005 Share Posted January 1, 2005 Not in the 1st or second round. Next year's draft should be a lot deeper at rb and Culpepper, TO, Manning and Mcnabb are better non rb draft picks. 636197[/snapback] I can understand not in the 1st round, but he won't go into the 3rd, if even gets out of the 1st. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phenom Posted January 1, 2005 Share Posted January 1, 2005 That's true of any Top WR. Not one WR puts up great stats every week. 636203[/snapback] That's not only true of any WR but any player. LT had 5 games with 60 yards of rushing or less (3 with less than 50). He also had 5 games with 100 yards or less of combined rushing/receiving yards. The one thing he was consistent at was getting a TD in 14 of 15 games. Shaun Alexander had 6 games of 100 yards or less of combined rushing and receiving yards. He had 5 games where he didn't score. We all know Edgerrin's weakness this year. Got the yards but no TD's. Curtis Martin had 5 games of 100 yards or less of combined rushing/receiving yards. He also had 7 games where he didn't score. Corey Dillion looks like he was the most consistent RB with his yards. He had only 3 games where he had less than 100 yards rushing/receiving. But he did have 7 games where he didn't score. Even Peyton Manning blew it this year. He threw at least 2 TD's in every game this year except one. The most important week for the fantasy player: week 15 where he only threw 1 TD. Daunte Culpepper had 6 games where he only threw 1 TD (in week 12 against Jax he also rushed for 1 TD also). Donovan Mcnabb was very up and down this year. He had 5 weeks of 4 or more TD's but then he 8 weeks where he only threw 1 TD or less (he had 2 weeks where he didn't score a TD at all) Drew Brees had 5 weeks where he threw for less than 200 yards and 7 weeks where he threw 1 or less TD's (3 games where he didn't throw any TD passes) As far as Barlow do you really think there is any other RB in the league that would have done much better? They have zero threats at the WR position; their best receiving option was Eric Johnson, the 49er offensive line is crap giving up 51 sacks this year and they were playing QB roulette the whole season. He was in a bad situation that nobody could have succeeded in.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted January 1, 2005 Share Posted January 1, 2005 Even without the injury and not playing hard, his stats would have been insane. 636139[/snapback] Does this make any sense, or is it just me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted January 1, 2005 Share Posted January 1, 2005 Does this make any sense, or is it just me? 638462[/snapback] No, and no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted January 1, 2005 Share Posted January 1, 2005 Does this make any sense, or is it just me? 638462[/snapback] Randy Moss at 100% and still not playing hard = his stats would have been better than any other WR's stats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted January 1, 2005 Share Posted January 1, 2005 (edited) Even without the injury and not playing hard, his stats would have been insane. 636139[/snapback] The above is not the same as the below. Randy Moss at 100% and still not playing hard = his stats would have been better than any other WR's stats. 638554[/snapback] Edited January 1, 2005 by CaptainHook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted January 1, 2005 Share Posted January 1, 2005 I had to make it longer so people would understand it. I'm not going to argue over a sentence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sundaynfl Posted January 1, 2005 Share Posted January 1, 2005 Great posts enjoyed them all... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Johnies Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 I can understand not in the 1st round, but he won't go into the 3rd, if even gets out of the 1st. 638399[/snapback] I'm not picking him in the first two rounds so I guess I won't have the opportunity to play him next season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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