Brady is better then Manning.....

[uglytuna]

extensive, facts and what not .....

 

http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/facts...manning.php#top

 

 

Peyton Manning is a great player who puts up some nifty numbers. But

there is far more to quarterbacking than surrounding yourself with

hall-of-fame talent and tossing a record number of touchdown passes.

 

Every time we look at Tom Brady, meanwhile, we find ourselves discussing

his accomplishments in the most remarkable historic terms: youngest QB

to win a Super Bowl, youngest QB to win two Super Bowls, engineer of the

longest win streak in NFL history, leader of the only walk-off scoring

drive in Super Bowl history, best winning percentage by a QB in modern

NFL history, best overtime record in NFL history, one of just four

players to boast multiple Super Bowl MVP awards.

 

And if you’re still a stickler for pure stats, well, you’re in for quite

a surprise when you see what Brady has done. Brady boasts the seventh

best passer rating in NFL history, better than Marino, Favre, McNabb and

many of the other modern-era QBs mentioned among the all-time greats.

He’s done it all without a single offensive Pro Bowler by his side. Few

quarterbacks in NFL history have posted stats that compare to Brady’s

without a bevy of Pro Bowlers and Hall of Famers surrounding them.

 

POSTSEASON PERFORMANCES

Brady’s superiority over Manning is built upon the foundation of each

player’s postseason performances. Quite simply, Manning, as we have long

noted, is the Picasso of Choke Artists, the Betty Ford of Chokeaholics

and the Al Choker of glib pigskin weathermen.

 

..... and the history to proove it.

 

FRANCHISE FORTUNES

The Indianapolis franchise has certainly improved with Manning at the

helm. In fact, it’s improved quite remarkably. The Colts are now a

consistent playoff team and routinely boast one of the best offenses in

football. But no quarterback in the history of football has had a more

immediate and profound impact on his team’s fortunes than Brady.

 

..... and the background to proove it.

 

MANO a MANO

 

Manning and Brady have faced each other five times. New England has won

each game, outscoring Indy by an average score of 34.2-20.4, and Brady

has clearly outshined the two-time regular-season MVP. Here’s how their

numbers stack up in those five contests:

 

* Brady: 103 for 153 (67.3%), 1,178 yards, 9 TDs, 4 INTs, 99.0 passer

rating

 

THE FORMATIVE YEARS

We turned to the professor of footballogy, the Cold, Hard Football

Facts, and found that the Manning-Brady dies were cast back in their

college days.

 

.... and the brief history.

 

THE 'TALENT' ISSUE

 

Manning, himself a No. 1 draft pick, is surrounded by top-pick talent at

 

* wide receiver (Wayne, Harrison)

* tight end (Dallas Clark)

* running back (Edgerrin James) and

* offensive tackle (Tarik Glenn).

 

That’s six of 11 offensive starters who are No. 1 draft picks. At least

one, Harrison, is a lock for the Hall of Fame. James is a potential Hall

of Famer. Manning had the luxury his first year in the league of handing

the ball to future Hall of Fame running back Marshall Faulk, one of the

most prolific offensive players in NFL history. Manning has also enjoyed

the luxury of offensive Pro Bowlers ever year that he’s been in the

league: Faulk (1998); James (1999, 2000, 2004); and Harrison (1999-2004).

 

In other words, the Colts have purposely built a team that gives its

quarterback a chance to pad the stat book.

 

Brady has built his prolific career with a much different set of tools.

Consider that he’s New England’s only offensive player to be named to

the Pro Bowl since 2001. His top receiver has been Troy Brown, an NFL

journeyman who was drafted in the 8th round (198th pick) out of

Marshall. Meanwhile, consider the pedigree of the players on the

receiving end of Brady’s four Super Bowl touchdown passes:

 

* Deion Branch (a second-round draft pick from Louisville)

* David Givens (a seventh-round pick from Notre Dame)

* David Patten (an undrafted free agent from Western Carolina) and

* Mike Vrabel (a journeyman NFL linebacker).

 

New England’s offensive line this year has featured a second-round draft

pick (Matt Light), two fifth rounders (Dan Koppen and Russ Hochstein), a

seventh-round pick (Brandon Gorin) and three undrafted free agents

(Stephen Neal, Joe Andruzzi and Tom Ashworth).

 

Most successful quarterbacks, meanwhile, depend upon a punishing ground

game to open up the passing lanes for them. But

 

* the 2001 Patriots won the Super Bowl with the league’s 13th ranked

ground attack.

* the 2003 Patriots had the 27th ranked ground attack, the lowest ranked

rushing attack of any Super Bowl champion.

* the 2003 Patriots averaged just 3.4 yards per rushing attempt. Among

all Super Bowl champions, only the 1970 Colts (3.3 yards per carry) had

a more ineffective ground game.

 

STATISTICS

Some people are awestruck by Manning’s amazing regular-season

statistics. In fact, some people insist that eye-popping regular season

statistics are all that mattter.

 

The gossip pages of pigskin, The Cold, Hard Football Facts, are here to

let you in on a dirty little secret, one that will send Manning fans

into an apoplectic identity crisis. Here it is:

 

The glaring disparity between supporting offensive talent has not

stopped Brady from putting up highly comparable, and in many instance

outright better, statistics than one Peyton Manning. In fact, at this

point in his career, Brady has posted a better passer rating than

Manning did at the same point in his career.

 

Manning: 1,739 for 2817 (61.7%), 20,618 yards, 138 TDs, 100 INTs; 85.6

Brady: 1,243 for 2018 (61.6%), 13,925 yards, 97 TDs, 52 INTs, 87.5

 

After five years in the league, the only great difference in their raw

statistics come from the number of opportunities Manning was given to

throw the ball.

 

Brady, meanwhile, throwing to castoffs like David Patten and Dedric

Ward, has averaged one touchdown pass for every 20.8 pass atttempts. In

Manning's first five years in the league, playing with Hall of Famers

Marshall Faulk , Marvin Harrison and Edgerrin James, tossed one

touchdown pass every 20.4 pass attempts. Manning threw an interception

every 28.2 pass attempts. Brady has thrown interceptions just once every

38.8 pass attempts. (At the start of the 2004 season we posted the

surprising results of our comparison between Brady, Manning and all the

great quarterbacks of the Super Bowl era.)

 

Of course, over the last two years, Manning has played the best football

of his career -- highlighted by this year's record 49 touchdown passes

-- while throwing the ball to a star-studded offensive cast. Still, his

career passer rating is a mere 4.8 points higher than Brady’s is today:

 

Manning: 2,464 for 3,880 (63.5%), 29,942 yards, 216 TDs, 120 INTs, 92.3

INT

Brady: 1,243 for 2018 (61.6%), 13,925 yards, 97 TDs, 52 INTs, 87.5

 

Manning's 92.3 passer rating is fourth best in history. Brady's is

seventh. The margin is a lot smaller than most in the football world

realize (or are willing to admit).

 

Of course, one can't help but wonder: What would Brady's stat line look

like if the Patriots invested in offense the way Indy has? Of course,

there's no need for New England to do so. Brady's proven that he can put

up historic passing numbers, and win championships in heroic fashion,

surrounded by a workmanlike crew. Manning has proven he can put up

historic passing numbers surrounded by an all-star cast. He's yet to

prove he can consistently put up historic passing numbers in the

postseason.

 

The bottom line is this: No quarterback in modern football history has

crafted a career that includes a more impressive combination of stunning

postseason performances, team accomplishments and eye-popping stats than

Brady. Not even Peyton Manning.

 

 

Tom Brady, in other words, is the better quarterback. Case closed.

 

Your local reporter....Ugly Tuna

[broncosn05]

I'm not going to read that whole thing but the only thing Brady has that Peyton doesn't is..

Rings

 

Comon Peyton get one this year

[CaptainHook]

uglytuna is a welsher and a coward.

 

Oh yeah, Manning is better. I will not bother breaking down the inaccuracies in your "story". Good fiction reading though!

Edited January 12, 2005 by CaptainHook

[uglytuna]

What is a Welsher? Good Stuff!

[tbimm]

Read my sig line and weap ! Sorry Ugly Tuna but i believe you may have drowned in the gene pool !

[CaptainHook]

Welsher n. one who cheats by failing to pay a gambling debt. 2. one who goes back on one's word.

 

Example:

 

Uglytuna is a welsher because he lost his sig line bet, and did not honor it.

When uglytuna welshed on his sig line bet, he lost all credibility at The Huddle.

Uglytuna is someone who will welsh on bets.

Uglytuna is a welshing moron.

Edited January 12, 2005 by CaptainHook

[Hat Trick]

You do realize that I HATE the pats, only because of you. Well actually just Brady and Belichick. I can't stand them now because you stroke them more than any sane person ever could. You have to be the most worthless piece of crap to ever visit this board, BY FAR. F'N TOOL!

Edited January 12, 2005 by Hat Trick

[Jrick35]

So if the only reason that Peyton Manning has performed at such a high level is his supporting cast, are you saying that if he were the starter that Jim Sorgi would have thrown for 49 TD's this year?

 

Would Stokley, Harrison & Wayne still had 1000 yds and at least 10 TDs this year?

 

Somehow I doubt it.

[uglytuna]

Can't believe I influence so many people over here....

 

But you all can't seem to stay away from my threads. Go Figure!

 

Love me now or hate me more!

 

Your Ugly Tuna

[CaP'N GRuNGe]

Can't believe I influence so many people over here....

 

But you all can't seem to stay away from my threads.  Go Figure!

 

Love me now or hate me more!

 

Your Ugly Tuna

 

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This really is a great spain alias. He's really captured the essence of annoyance.

[Wizards]

The real test could only be conducted by switching Manning and Brady with their teams in tact this year....could Brady pad his stats to equal Manning this year? No way...Could Manning get 49 TD's and the yards as QB of Pats...possibly but probably not...I noticed the not one mention of the defense for either team...if the Colts had the players and "D" Pats have in the last five games could Brady do as well as Manning---very unlikely....Brady versus his own "D".....one more thought...Manning versus Colts "D"....think Manning's stats versus Colts "D" would far exceed what Brady has done...pure conjecture but since Brady "goober smoocher's" are allowed to be and tell fairy tales...why not throw out provoking angles...

[Runner]

Ugly Tuna does make some interesting points, and backs them with facts and not hypothesis.

 

Although I believe Manning is the best individual QB in the game, you can't take anything away from Brady. He is the ultimate team player, and if it weren't for him, the Patriots would not have won either Superbowl. Manning is surrounded by superb talent, unlike Brady, but Brady somehow gets it done when it counts the most. Manning hasn't done that yet. We'll see how it plays out this year.

 

Interesting read.

[msaint]

The real test could only be conducted by switching Manning and Brady with their teams in tact this year....

 

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I like it. A "Trading Spouses"-type QB reality show...I'll contact FOX.

[whomper]

The difference between the 2 qbs is that Manning cant get past Belichek.He becomes the deer in the headlights when he faces him.All his audibles and abilities to read Defenses(Which I think he is great at and he will end up being an incredible Offensive coordinater one day) go out the window because Belichek is always one step ahead of him.Im not a fan of either team and I think Manning and Brady are elite qbs but until Manning gets the monkey off of his back which is failing to beat New England he will not win the superbowl and Brady will always have the 2 rings to hold over his head.Stats I think may end up favoring Manning but you also rate a qb on intangibles too.Like playing big in big games..

[Hugh 0ne]

UT takes it in the can.

 

Hugh :Randy Moss: One

 

Welcher.

[Squeegiebo]

Brady is better then Manning

 

[Ziachild007]

You do realize that I HATE the pats, only because of you. Well actually just Brady and Belichick. I can't stand them now because you stroke them more than any sane person ever could.

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I usually do not get into the Tuna bashing too much, but on this occasion I am going to have to agree with Hat Trick on his statement. I never did care for Belicheck, Brady, or the Pats, but now I DESPISE THEM.

 

However as consolation, no matter how many Super Bowls they win, I am not sure the franchise will ever get over making that stupid "Patriots Are We" video in 1985.

[CaptainHook]

POSTSEASON PERFORMANCES

Brady’s superiority over Manning is built upon the foundation of each

player’s postseason performances. Quite simply, Manning, as we have long

noted, is the Picasso of Choke Artists, the Betty Ford of Chokeaholics

and the Al Choker of glib pigskin weathermen.

 

650941[/snapback]

 

 

 

 

Name another "choke" besides that AFC Championship game. If you name another QB, you can find a bad performance in a play-off game. Brady's career is not complete. So far, he has done incredibly average in the play-offs. Look at his stats. Brady has had ONE good game in the play-offs, the Super Bowl win vs. the Panthers. Other than that, he has been quite Dilfer-esque.

 

FRANCHISE FORTUNES

The Indianapolis franchise has certainly improved with Manning at the

helm. In fact, it’s improved quite remarkably. The Colts are now a

consistent playoff team and routinely boast one of the best offenses in

football. But no quarterback in the history of football has had a more

immediate and profound impact on his team’s fortunes than Brady.

 

650941[/snapback]

 

 

 

 

This paragraph sounds nice and all. Until you actually look at the facts. Before Manning arrived, the Colts were 3-13. They had made the play-offs only twice in the 10 years prior to Manning's arrival. Brady walks into a team that had made the play-offs 4 times in the seven years before his arrival. The Patriots had won their division twice, and had been to the Super Bowl shortly before Brady arrived.

 

THE 'TALENT' ISSUE

 

Manning, himself a No. 1 draft pick, is surrounded by top-pick talent at

 

* wide receiver (Wayne, Harrison)

* tight end (Dallas Clark)

* running back (Edgerrin James) and

* offensive tackle (Tarik Glenn).

 

That’s six of 11 offensive starters who are No. 1 draft picks. At least

one, Harrison, is a lock for the Hall of Fame. James is a potential Hall

of Famer. Manning had the luxury his first year in the league of handing

the ball to future Hall of Fame running back Marshall Faulk, one of the

most prolific offensive players in NFL history. Manning has also enjoyed

the luxury of offensive Pro Bowlers ever year that he’s been in the

league: Faulk (1998); James (1999, 2000, 2004); and Harrison (1999-2004).

 

In other words, the Colts have purposely built a team that gives its

quarterback a chance to pad the stat book.

 

Brady has built his prolific career with a much different set of tools.

Consider that he’s New England’s only offensive player to be named to

the Pro Bowl since 2001. His top receiver has been Troy Brown, an NFL

journeyman who was drafted in the 8th round (198th pick) out of

Marshall. Meanwhile, consider the pedigree of the players on the

receiving end of Brady’s four Super Bowl touchdown passes:

 

* Deion Branch (a second-round draft pick from Louisville)

* David Givens (a seventh-round pick from Notre Dame)

* David Patten (an undrafted free agent from Western Carolina) and

* Mike Vrabel (a journeyman NFL linebacker).

 

New England’s offensive line this year has featured a second-round draft

pick (Matt Light), two fifth rounders (Dan Koppen and Russ Hochstein), a

seventh-round pick (Brandon Gorin) and three undrafted free agents

(Stephen Neal, Joe Andruzzi and Tom Ashworth).

 

650941[/snapback]

 

 

 

 

#1. Dallas Clark isn't a starter. Marcus Pollard was an undrafted free agent. Aren't New England's tight ends Daniel Graham and Ben Watson first round picks though?

#2. Marvin Harrison was the sixteenth pick in the 1996 draft. It seems like there was another receiver that was taken before him that played with Tom Brady, but got ran out of town. What was his name? Oh yeah, the #7 pick in that draft. Terry Glenn.

#3. The Colts have a #1 draft pick on their O-line? You're right. But did you forget that the Patriots Super Bowl teams also had the #17 pick in 1999 as a starter? A first round center, by the name of Damien Woody? Also the Patriots had two second round pick offensive lineman. Adrian Klemm drafted in 2000 with the 15th pick in the second round. Matt Light was drafted in 2001 with the 17th pick in the second round. After Glenn, the rest of the Colts offensive line were drafted in the fourth round or later. G DeMulling is a seventh rounder. Center Jeff Saturday was a undrafted free agent. G Jake Scott is a fifth rounder. RT Ryan Diem was a fourth rounder. Past starters? G Tupe Peko was a undrafted free agent. G Steve Sciullo was a fourth rounder.

 

Sounds like New England just hasn't been able to get much from the talent they drafted in the first rounds, eh? Andy Katzenmoyer, Terry Glenn, Daniel Graham, Ben Watson, Adrian Klemm?

 

Most successful quarterbacks, meanwhile, depend upon a punishing ground

game to open up the passing lanes for them. But

 

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Really? Dan Marino did? John Elway was pretty successful without a running game. The 49ers never had a "punishing ground game".

 

* the 2001 Patriots won the Super Bowl with the league’s 13th ranked

ground attack.

 

650941[/snapback]

 

 

 

 

Are you serious with that stat? Thirteenth?? That's pretty good! How good was the defense that year? Just wondering.

 

The glaring disparity between supporting offensive talent has not

stopped Brady from putting up highly comparable, and in many instance

outright better, statistics than one Peyton Manning. In fact, at this

point in his career, Brady has posted a better passer rating than

Manning did at the same point in his career.

 

Manning: 1,739 for 2817 (61.7%), 20,618 yards, 138 TDs, 100 INTs; 85.6

Brady: 1,243 for 2018 (61.6%), 13,925 yards, 97 TDs, 52 INTs, 87.5

 

650941[/snapback]

 

 

 

 

Did Brady have to play his rookie year on a bad team? Or did he get to sit and learn behind Pro Bowl and Super Bowl QB Drew Bledsoe? Do you think the 28 picks Manning threw his rookie year when he got thrown to the wolves skews that a little bit? It's a good thing you are comparing now, because in a year or two, comparing to the "same point" in their careers will not be close.

 

*Of course, over the last two years, Manning has played the best football

of his career -- highlighted by this year's record 49 touchdown passes

-- while throwing the ball to a star-studded offensive cast. Still, his

career passer rating is a mere 4.8 points higher than Brady’s is today:

 

Manning: 2,464 for 3,880 (63.5%), 29,942 yards, 216 TDs, 120 INTs, 92.3

INT

Brady: 1,243 for 2018 (61.6%), 13,925 yards, 97 TDs, 52 INTs, 87.5

 

Manning's 92.3 passer rating is fourth best in history. Brady's is

seventh. The margin is a lot smaller than most in the football world

realize (or are willing to admit).

 

650941[/snapback]

 

 

 

 

 

Once again, imagine Manning's QB rating if he'd gotten to sit for a year. Manning's "margin" would be a whole lot better. And it's not like the Patriots don't have any talent. Where have the Pats spent their first rounders? DEFENSE. Vince Wilfork, Ty Warren, Richard Seymour, Andy Katzenmoyer. Second Round? Marquise Hill and Eugene Wilson. Having such a loaded defense probably means you can play it safe of offense, wouldn't you say?

 

Of course, one can't help but wonder: What would Brady's stat line look

like if the Patriots invested in offense the way Indy has? Of course,

there's no need for New England to do so. Brady's proven that he can put

up historic passing numbers, and win championships in heroic fashion,

surrounded by a workmanlike crew. Manning has proven he can put up

historic passing numbers surrounded by an all-star cast. He's yet to

prove he can consistently put up historic passing numbers in the

postseason.

650941[/snapback]

 

 

 

 

Hmm, I must have missed it. What "historic" passing numbers has Brady put up? Manning hasn't "put up historic passing numbers in the postseason"? What games have you been watching?

 

 

The bottom line is this: No quarterback in modern football history has

crafted a career that includes a more impressive combination of stunning

postseason performances, team accomplishments and eye-popping stats than

Brady. Not even Peyton Manning.

Tom Brady, in other words, is the better quarterback. Case closed.

 

650941[/snapback]

 

 

 

 

Once again, did I miss an eye-popping stat from Brady?

 

Brady in the postseason:

 

1/20/02 vs. OAK 32-52 312 yards 0 TD 1 INT 1 rushing TD

1/27/02 at PIT 12-18 115 yards 0 TD 0 INT

2/3/02 vs STL 16-27 145 yards 1 TD 0 INT

1/10/04 vs TEN 21-41 201 yards 1 TD 0 INT

1/18/04 vs IND 22-37 237 yards 1 TD 1 INT

2/1/04 vs CAR 32-48 354 yards 3 TD 1 INT

 

ONE GAME with above average stats. The rest look like the work of a system QB that is told to "not lose the game". :cough: Dilfer :cough: Anybody else notice that Brady has had to play only ONE away game in the play-offs? And he had to leave that game? Must be nice to play all your play-off games at home or at a neutral site.

Edited January 12, 2005 by CaptainHook

[uglytuna]

I think the playoffs this year the Pats will rely more on Dillon then Brady in years past.

 

Ugly Tuna

[CaptainHook]

I think the playoffs this year the Pats will rely more on Dillon then Brady in years past.

 

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Look at those mediocre stats above! They've NEVER had to rely on him. Defense, special teams, and a conservative game plan is the mantra of the Patriots.

Edited January 12, 2005 by CaptainHook

[uglytuna]

Look at those mediocre stats above!  They've NEVER had to rely on him.  Defense, special teams, and a conservative game plan is the mantra of the Patriots.

 

651552[/snapback]

 

 

 

 

Brady made every single play when needed to. If they need a 1st down he got it, when he need a drive to kick the game game winner (2001 SB and 2003 SB, Oakland Snow Bowl) Thoses are the drives that doesn't show up in the stats....

 

Plus in your stats that you posted Brady has 8 TD to 3 INTS. Can you tell me what Mannings stats are against the PATS or playoffs?

 

 

Its all about the ring!

 

Ugly Tuna

[CaptainHook]

Anyone else ever notice that in Brady's Super Bowl heroics, in both cases, the game was tied when he led them for a FG? Pressure? Yes, but not the kind of pressure that comes from knowing that you don't have OT coming if you fail. . .

[Down Goes Frazia]

the bottom line on this comparison is this.........

 

If Belichick had Manning he'd never lose.

 

If Dungy had Brady he'd hardly ever win.

[forever in debt to mo lewis]

"Name another "choke" besides that AFC Championship game. "

 

WILD CARD @NYJ L 41-0 14 31 137 45.2 4.42 17 0 2 1 31.2 1 2 2.0 2 0

 

"Must be nice to play all your play-off games at home or at a neutral site."

 

yes it is..its a beautiful thing..we dont have to discuss how you get such a privilege do we?

 

"and a conservative game plan is the mantra of the Patriots."

 

you could call the gameplan conservative..but really the mantra is dont let the qb put your team in position to lose a game...its pretty logical..maybe something peyton could learn from after all the errant passes hes forced here last year...when the team needs brady to make plays(ie superbowl 38..i could go over a laundry list of other situations), he gets it done

[CaptainHook]

Plus in your stats that you posted Brady has 8 TD to 3 INTS.   Can you tell me what Mannings stats are against the PATS or playoffs?

 

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I am not surprised you cannot count. 6 TD's for Brady. Not 8. Nice try.

 

Play-offs:

 

Manning 144-241 60% 1933 yards 14 TD 7 INT 2 rushing TD

Brady 135-233 58% 1364 yards 6 TD 3 INT 1 rushing TD

Edited January 12, 2005 by CaptainHook