Bill Swerski Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 And by the way, Feeley had 198 yards and ONE score. Palmer had 202 yards, two scores and one pick. Is that what you call 'tearing them up'? 658078[/snapback] And, of course, they weren't forced to do it in a snowstorm. How well did Manning do in Foxboro back in September? I seem to remember 256 yds and 2 TDs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giantsfan Posted January 17, 2005 Author Share Posted January 17, 2005 Denver had a top 5 defense this year and last. So much for your "facts". The Colts cannot beat New England. 658075[/snapback] Captain not to be rude or anything but that is THE biggest copout and you know it. Over the last 6 or 7 weeks of the season the Denver D was AWFUL other than against Tenn on that Saturday night. Oak and KC to name a few were HUGE against that D. Just say it it's okay. In his LIFE in big games against good D's Manning has NOT gotten the job done. You can say it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Rock Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 Hey the Colts D is a JOKE against physical teams NO DOUBT ABOUT IT. But because his D is a joke means Manning throws ZERO TD's and has a 69 QB rating. Come on Dr. Look I'm sure you are a Colts fan or like Manning, but what I don't get is WHY is it so hard for Colts or Manning fans to just state the obvious. He DOESN'T get it done against good D's in big spots. This is not opinion or some ramblings from a Colts hater, I was actually rooting for them yesterday, this is a 10000% FACT. Look at the numbers in the pros and in college against good D's and you see it in black and white. Is it ALWAYS his D...or his team...or the other D.... Is it MAYBE possible for some reason in big games he freezes up and doesn't get it done. Come on now guys. 658083[/snapback] I'm not a Colts fan, or a Pats fan, though I was at the game. Like you, I'm a Giants homer. The problem with your 'point' is that Manning was not the reason the Colts lost yesterday. No, he didn't play a super game, but he turned the ball over ONCE, and that was in the last 30 seconds when the game was out of reach any way. Is it his fault the Colts D couldn't stop the run game of the Pats, who held the ball for 37 min? Is it his fault that Reggie Wayne lost a fumble? Is it his fault that Dominic Rhodes lost a fumble? Is it his fault the Colts D couldn't come up with ONE turnover? Is it his fault the Colts D gave up 238 yards rushing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patsfan04 Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 Go ahead and think that. What has Tom Brady done without a dominant defense? Oh, right, a 9-7 record and no playoff appearance. 658049[/snapback] Go back and look at that run of Superbowl participants that didn't make the playoffs the following year. Patriots weren't focused as they should have been. They came out of the gates smoking, 3-0, and thought they were going to coast to the playoffs. The NFL doesn't work that way. Superbowl champs, new stadium, no worries. They tied the Jets for the division lost the division on the 3rd tiebraker (common oponents). What would the Colts know about having a down year after a superbowl? Oh yeah, that's right, we'll cross that bridge when we come to it. Would you put up with a 9-7 season if it was sandwiched between 2 Superbowl wins? I think anyone would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giantsfan Posted January 17, 2005 Author Share Posted January 17, 2005 Here is the fact. Against good teams in big spots Manning NEVER wins EVER. From college through today. You guys spin it however you want, but that is a FACT. I know when you aren't trying to worship Manning you all know that so say what you will in here but facts are facts my friends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexgaddis Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 How about putting together ONE TOUCHDOWN DRIVE in that game to give his team a chance... 3 points... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 (edited) Captain not to be rude or anything but that is THE biggest copout and you know it. Over the last 6 or 7 weeks of the season the Denver D was AWFUL other than against Tenn on that Saturday night. Oak and KC to name a few were HUGE against that D. Just say it it's okay. In his LIFE in big games against good D's Manning has NOT gotten the job done. You can say it. 658086[/snapback] and you are a typical Manning hater who makes excuses the other way. The wins over Denver don't count because. . . It's bull. The Colts as a team play horribly against New England. Particularly IN New England, and ESPECIALLY in the snow. That is what you can take from those games. That's it. Until someone beats New England in the play-offs, EVERYONE is in the same boat. They can't get it done against New England. Edited January 17, 2005 by CaptainHook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Rock Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 and you are a typical Manning hater who makes excuses the other way. The wins over Denver don't count because. . . It's bull. The Colts as a team play horribly against New England. Particularly IN New England, and ESPECIALLY in the snow. That is what you can take from those games. That's it. Until someone beats New England in the play-offs, they are all in the same boat. 658093[/snapback] Exactly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 No you can never blame Manning for a playoff loss. But you sure can credit the Colts wins to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Rock Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 No you can never blame Manning for a playoff loss. But you sure can credit the Colts wins to him. 658096[/snapback] Wouldn't you say that if they'd had a different QB they'd have won fewer games during the regular season this year? He definitely won a few games on his own during the year to even get them to the playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giantsfan Posted January 17, 2005 Author Share Posted January 17, 2005 I'm not a Colts fan, or a Pats fan, though I was at the game. Like you, I'm a Giants homer. The problem with your 'point' is that Manning was not the reason the Colts lost yesterday. No, he didn't play a super game, but he turned the ball over ONCE, and that was in the last 30 seconds when the game was out of reach any way. Is it his fault the Colts D couldn't stop the run game of the Pats, who held the ball for 37 min? Is it his fault that Reggie Wayne lost a fumble? Is it his fault that Dominic Rhodes lost a fumble? Is it his fault the Colts D couldn't come up with ONE turnover? Is it his fault the Colts D gave up 238 yards rushing? 658087[/snapback] Here's what I think is missing you though. THIS IS MANNING. Just not costing his team the game ISN'T good enough. What did he do to win it. TD's ZERO. QB rating BAD. Do you see my point. Going into the game do you think the Colts said well as long as Manning doesn't cost us the game we're okay or do you think they said we need a big Manning performance to have a chance. Come on this isn't Dilfer with the Ravens. If Dilfer had that performance yesterday it would be okay, BUT NOT THE GREAT BEST PLAYER IN THE GAME MANNING. See the difference. HE DID ZERO POSITIVE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 No you can never blame Manning for a playoff loss. But you sure can credit the Colts wins to him. 658096[/snapback] Look it up, a$$wipe. I've blamed him for last year's AFC Championship, but there is plenty of blame to go around for yesterday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Rock Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 Here is the fact. Against good teams in big spots Manning NEVER wins EVER. From college through today. You guys spin it however you want, but that is a FACT. I know when you aren't trying to worship Manning you all know that so say what you will in here but facts are facts my friends. 658091[/snapback] And I will say the fact one more time. It's a team game - you can't do it alone. When you're in the playoffs, with a terrible defense, against good teams, you can't do it alone - no matter who you are. Get the man any sort of a defense. And I look at it this way - if he doesn't play as well as he has, the Colts don't even GET to the playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveman_Nick Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 Go ahead and think that. What has Tom Brady done without a dominant defense? Oh, right, a 9-7 record and no playoff appearance. 658049[/snapback] Hey Bill, I keep seeing this from you. It is true, but I have to ask, has Manning ever not made the playoffs? Does it prove anything? I am not sure what this measures, really. I mean, you could look at the Pats and say their defense underperformed that year. You could also say that Antwan Smith sucked, the O-line was bad, and the receiving core was not what it is this year (and still it's a bunch of no name undersized players). And still the team went 9-7, which isn't exactly crap. Yes, Tom Brady benefits from having a good defense. I would not call it dominant, I would call it efficient. If you want dominant, look at the Steelers. Regardless, the guy does generally do what his team asks of him and enough to win games. Manning is asked to do more, does more, is a superior talent, but does not seem to do what is necessary to make it through the Pats in Foxborough in the playoffs. Does it measure anything that Manning in one game couldn't torch Asante Samuel, Randall Gay, and Troy Brown? Probably not... And after posting all of that, I am not sure any of it means anything. I think we are dumbing ourselves down debating it, to be honest. I will say this... If the Colts put it together next season, improve their defense again, and win enough games to take the #1 seed, they will not be defeated at home in the playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Rock Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 Here's what I think is missing you though. THIS IS MANNING. Just not costing his team the game ISN'T good enough. What did he do to win it. TD's ZERO. QB rating BAD. Do you see my point. Going into the game do you think the Colts said well as long as Manning doesn't cost us the game we're okay or do you think they said we need a big Manning performance to have a chance. Come on this isn't Dilfer with the Ravens. If Dilfer had that performance yesterday it would be okay, BUT NOT THE GREAT BEST PLAYER IN THE GAME MANNING. See the difference. HE DID ZERO POSITIVE. 658100[/snapback] I'm agreeing that he didn't play super. But there's not much you can do when OTHER players are dropping the ball, losing fumbles, and letting the other team hold onto the ball so long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giantsfan Posted January 17, 2005 Author Share Posted January 17, 2005 and you are a typical Manning hater who makes excuses the other way. The wins over Denver don't count because. . . It's bull. The Colts as a team play horribly against New England. Particularly IN New England, and ESPECIALLY in the snow. That is what you can take from those games. That's it. Until someone beats New England in the play-offs, EVERYONE is in the same boat. They can't get it done against New England. 658093[/snapback] That is WAY off. Of course the Denver playoff wins count. I NEVER said they didn't My point is against GOOD D's what has he done. I am NOT a Manning hater. What I am though is against the guys who worship the ground Manning walks on when he's NEVER been to the SB, NEVER beat Florida in college, and NEVER does well against GOOD D's. Manning and the Colts O are bullies simply put. When they play tough teams or fall behind and face adversity they don't get it done in big spots. The facts are on my side so you argue whatever you want but it won't be argued with facts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 (edited) DENVER WAS A TOP FIVE DEFENSE TWO YEARS IN A ROW AND THE COLTS DISMANTLED THEM. I believe they were fourth in the NFL on defense both years. So much for "never doing good against good D's". If you want to say he never does well at New England in the snow, that is fine. But the rest is bull. Edited January 17, 2005 by CaptainHook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Rock Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 The facts are on my side so you argue whatever you want but it won't be argued with facts. 658110[/snapback] Except.. for all those facts I posted? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Rock Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 It basically comes down to this: 1. Pats O - the Pats have an excellent QB and a good overall offense. 2. Pats D - the Pats have an outstanding D and are probably, between Crennel and Belichick, the best-coached unit. 3. Colts O - the Colts have an excellent QB and a great overall offense. 4. Colts D - the Colts have a terrible D that can't stop anyone at all. Do you see the weak link there? Do you see why the Colts lost? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turf Boy Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 One guy in this thread seems awfully emotional. So giantsfan, how much did you lose on the Colts yesterday? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giantsfan Posted January 17, 2005 Author Share Posted January 17, 2005 It truly amazes me. Manning doesn't get it done in big spots time and time again yet people NEVER want to call him on it. Again this is not about just yesterday and he did NOT cost his team the game yesterday, but he did NOT do ANYTHING to win it. And they dropped 3 passes and had 2 fumbles so give me a break lets not act like they had 600 TO 's and dropped 10 passes. The Colts are bullies and when someone calls them on it they back down time and time again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patsfan04 Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 According to Polian (on WEEI in Boston on Thursday), the defense is much improved (he was giving stats, rankings, etc.) and there is no way in the world the salaries for Manning, Harrison, and possibly James will impact what they will do on defense. This is a team game, and the offense scoring in 2 minutes doesn't really help the defense much. If the Indy offense was changed slightly, to try to gear towards more ball control, that would actually help the defense. The problem is that the offense doesn't care about the defense. This is about putting up touchdown after touchdown so Manning's can capture MVPs and records. I will take Superbowls. Take a look at Miami, do you think Miami fans talk more about Superbowl wins and the perfect season, or do they talk about Marino? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giantsfan Posted January 17, 2005 Author Share Posted January 17, 2005 One guy in this thread seems awfully emotional. So giantsfan, how much did you lose on the Colts yesterday? 658124[/snapback] Actually I don't bet on games. That's my point I have NO horse in this race and just call them like I see them. Like Manning dislike Manning has ZERO to do with it. I see him come up small time and time again against good D's and I say it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menudo Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 Or perhaps that NO QB has really done well vs the Pats in the last few years? 658063[/snapback] Ben Roethlisberger 18/24, 196 Yards, 2 TD, 0 INTS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 (edited) It truly amazes me. Manning doesn't get it done in big spots time and time again yet people NEVER want to call him on it. Again this is not about just yesterday and he did NOT cost his team the game yesterday, but he did NOT do ANYTHING to win it. And they dropped 3 passes and had 2 fumbles so give me a break lets not act like they had 600 TO 's and dropped 10 passes. The Colts are bullies and when someone calls them on it they back down time and time again. 658129[/snapback] Good idea moving away from your "he never does anything against good defenses" theme. Edited January 17, 2005 by CaptainHook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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