Dr. Rock Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 Ben Roethlisberger 18/24, 196 Yards, 2 TD, 0 INTS 658136[/snapback] Fair enough. Though I will say that was the game where they had first lost both Law and Poole and hadn't yet adapted, and where they had lost Dillon and had no sustainable rushing attack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Rock Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 Good idea moving away from your "he never does anything against good defenses" theme. 658137[/snapback] He never really answered to me asking how he thought AJ Feely had "torn up" the D, either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giantsfan Posted January 17, 2005 Author Share Posted January 17, 2005 According to Polian (on WEEI in Boston on Thursday), the defense is much improved (he was giving stats, rankings, etc.) and there is no way in the world the salaries for Manning, Harrison, and possibly James will impact what they will do on defense. This is a team game, and the offense scoring in 2 minutes doesn't really help the defense much. If the Indy offense was changed slightly, to try to gear towards more ball control, that would actually help the defense. The problem is that the offense doesn't care about the defense. This is about putting up touchdown after touchdown so Manning's can capture MVPs and records. I will take Superbowls. Take a look at Miami, do you think Miami fans talk more about Superbowl wins and the perfect season, or do they talk about Marino? 658130[/snapback] That is basically what I said ALL year long about the Colts. Here's the bottom line. There are enough bad teams in the NFL that the Colts can win regualr season games and some early playoff games playing the way they do. But against GOOD D's and more importantly physical D's they will not win with their style of play. They need to become more balanced and not be a scoring machine. They need to be able to learn how to grind it out in games like this where big plays WON'T be available, and right now the Colts have ZERO ability to grind it out on O. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 Hey Bill, I keep seeing this from you. It is true, but I have to ask, has Manning ever not made the playoffs? Does it prove anything?. 658105[/snapback] So, let's see. In seven seasons, Manning's taken his team to the playoffs five times. In only one of those seasons has he had a defense that ranked in the Top 10 in points allowed. In those five other seasons, his defenses have ranked in the lower half of the league in points allowed. If defense wins playoff games, the Colts had no business being in the playoffs in four of five of those seasons. They got their because of their offense. Yes, Tom Brady benefits from having a good defense. I would not call it dominant, I would call it efficient. I would call it dominant. 2004: 2nd in points allowed 2003: 1st in points allowed 2001: 6th in points allowed In 2002, the Pats D was a mere 17th in points allowed (i.e., they were "Colts-like"). They also failed to make the playoffs that year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giantsfan Posted January 17, 2005 Author Share Posted January 17, 2005 Good idea moving away from your "he never does anything against good defenses" theme. 658137[/snapback] Actually I'm not. He doesn't, but how long can we go back and forth on that one. You want to think the Denver D is good go right ahead. I can name about 5 games down the stretch where they got rolled, but why should we go back and forth on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 Actually I'm not. He doesn't, but how long can we go back and forth on that one. You want to think the Denver D is good go right ahead. I can name about 5 games down the stretch where they got rolled, but why should we go back and forth on this. 658149[/snapback] So what's the excuse for last year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveman_Nick Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 (edited) In 2002, the Pats D was a mere 17th in points allowed (i.e., they were "Colts-like"). They also failed to make the playoffs that year. 658143[/snapback] Right. 9-7 that year. Missed the playoffs on a tiebreaker. The Colts wer 10-6. You act like NE went 2-11. The Pats were a good team and in playoff contention until the end of the week 17 games. EDIT: And again...I am just not sure what this proves, either way. Edited January 17, 2005 by Caveman_Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexgaddis Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 Bottom line is this... Colts fans, enjoy your Great QB and all the personal records he will amass in his career... He will have a great Marino-like career... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 It truly amazes me. Manning doesn't get it done in big spots time and time again yet people NEVER want to call him on it. 658129[/snapback] You're dead wrong... January, 2004 vs. DEN: 22/26, 377 yds, 5 TDs, 0 INTs (Colts win 41-10) January, 2004 @ KC: 22/30, 304 yds, 3 TDs, 0 INTs (Colts win 38-31) January, 2005 vs. DEN: 27/33, 457 yds, 4 TDs, 1 INT, 1 rushing TD (Colts win 49-24) It is correct to say that Manning has not played well in Foxboro in January. Outside of that, Manning certainly HAS done VERY WELL in "big spots." Career playoff numbers... 171/284 (60%), 2171 yds, 14 TDs, 8 INTs, 32 rushing yds, 2 rushing TDs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Rock Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 Bottom line is this... Colts fans, enjoy your Great QB and all the personal records he will amass in his career... He will have a great Marino-like career... 658154[/snapback] Right. Because like Marino, he does not have a Defense. If the Colts get a defense, they will get some rings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patsfan04 Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 So, let's see. In seven seasons, Manning's taken his team to the playoffs five times. In only one of those seasons has he had a defense that ranked in the Top 10 in points allowed. In those five other seasons, his defenses have ranked in the lower half of the league in points allowed. 658143[/snapback] That is the point, it has been 7 years, and you would think the Colts would have learned by now. So when Manning is back in Louisiana, or the offensive coordinator for whatever team Eli is playing for, and he owns every single passing record in history of football, what good does that do the Indianapolis Colts if they have no championships????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 EDIT: And again...I am just not sure what this proves, either way. 658153[/snapback] It strongly supports the notion that great defense carries more weight in the playoffs than anything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giantsfan Posted January 17, 2005 Author Share Posted January 17, 2005 Palmer 18-24 201 yards 2 TD's and a 110 QB rating (left game early injured) Feeley 22-35 198 yards 1 TD and a 87.6 QB rating Green 27-42 381 yards 2 TD's and a 99.4 QB rating Manning 27-42 238 yards 0 TD's and a 69.3 QB rating There you go black and white. All had better games than Manning and his greatness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 Look it up, a$$wipe. I've blamed him for last year's AFC Championship, but there is plenty of blame to go around for yesterday. 658101[/snapback] But if Manning won, it would have been his win. Not Vanderjerk's or Freeney's if they made the game winning play. But since they lost, it's a team loss right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whomper Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 Gee .... here's an idea ... how about I start another thread about Manning and the Pats. 658041[/snapback] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 That is the point, it has been 7 years, and you would think the Colts would have learned by now. 658160[/snapback] Yeah, you'd think that they would've put together a solid defense by now. I'm with you on that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 Palmer 18-24 201 yards 2 TD's and a 110 QB rating (left game early injured)Feeley 22-35 198 yards 1 TD and a 87.6 QB rating Green 27-42 381 yards 2 TD's and a 99.4 QB rating Manning 27-42 238 yards 0 TD's and a 69.3 QB rating There you go black and white. All had better games than Manning and his greatness. 658162[/snapback] LOL! Green and Feeley were at HOME! NO SNOW! Why didn't you put Manning's WEEK ONE numbers up there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Rock Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 It is correct to say that Manning has not played well in Foxboro in January. Outside of that, Manning certainly HAS done VERY WELL in "big spots." 658156[/snapback] And who DOES play well in Foxboro in January? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giantsfan Posted January 17, 2005 Author Share Posted January 17, 2005 So what's the excuse for last year? 658152[/snapback] Wait you think Denver's D last year was good. GIVE ME A BREAK. That's why they got Bailey and Lynch because they were awful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 And who DOES play well in Foxboro in January? 658170[/snapback] Nobody over the past four years. But, hey, why let the facts get in the way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 Wait you think Denver's D last year was good. GIVE ME A BREAK. That's why they got Bailey and Lynch because they were awful. 658171[/snapback] OK, I will check with you from now on on whether a defense is good. Apparently, NFL rankings don't mean anything. Only your opinion on whether a defense is good or not does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Rock Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 But if Manning won, it would have been his win. Not Vanderjerk's or Freeney's if they made the game winning play. But since they lost, it's a team loss right? 658164[/snapback] If he won it with 380 yards and 4 scores, yes. If he had won playing the way he did yesterday, then its a team win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patsfan04 Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 You're dead wrong... January, 2004 vs. DEN: 22/26, 377 yds, 5 TDs, 0 INTs (Colts win 41-10) January, 2004 @ KC: 22/30, 304 yds, 3 TDs, 0 INTs (Colts win 38-31) January, 2005 vs. DEN: 27/33, 457 yds, 4 TDs, 1 INT, 1 rushing TD (Colts win 49-24) It is correct to say that Manning has not played well in Foxboro in January. Outside of that, Manning certainly HAS done VERY WELL in "big spots." Career playoff numbers... 171/284 (60%), 2171 yds, 14 TDs, 8 INTs, 32 rushing yds, 2 rushing TDs 658156[/snapback] Incredible numbers in the wins, no doubt. Put up the numbers from his playoff losses, though. His lowest qb rating of the year usually comes in the playoffs, look it up. Playoffs how a player is defined in a "big game", thus the point of discussion in this thread. When you look at those lines from the 2004 and 2005 playoffs, it makes the Pats performances stand out that much more. I am so sick of hearing about the snow, I wish it was sunny and freaking 40 yesterday, because the results would be the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Rock Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 LOL! Green and Feeley were at HOME! NO SNOW! Why didn't you put Manning's WEEK ONE numbers up there? 658169[/snapback] What, you think AJ Feeley playing at home in Florida in a meaningless game isn't comparable to playing in New England in frigid, snowing conditions in a playoff game? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giantsfan Posted January 17, 2005 Author Share Posted January 17, 2005 LOL! Green and Feeley were at HOME! NO SNOW! Why didn't you put Manning's WEEK ONE numbers up there? 658169[/snapback] 16-29 256 yards 2 TD's a 93.5 QB rating Better than Feeley, but again WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY below what we expect from the great best QB in the league better than anyone ever right now QB Manning. Compare his game in game out numbers to this game and it's NO WHERE close. Compare Feeley, or Green's, or Palmer's numbers to their game in game out numbers and they are way better. See the difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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