If we really think the Pats, Belichick and Brady succeeded unfairly...

[MothAudio]

Ok, everyone steals signs in sports but weren't the Pats specifically told my the NFl not to use video for this purpose? Not sure... just asking. If so then they clearly went outside the rules. Their coach is a Megan Fox not for that so much but the way he "p$ssy-footed" around the subject in his news conference.

Edited September 15, 2007 by MothAudio

[SMF]

Ok, everyone steals signs in sports but weren't the Pats specifically told my the NFl not to use video for this purpose? Not sure... just asking. If so then they clearly went outside the rules. Their coach is a Megan Fox not for that so much but the way he "p$ssy-footed" around the subject in his news conference.

 

It was not the Pats specifically it was the entire NFL, but everyone believes it got brought up because of the pats

[Pope Flick]

...we should be able to gauge how good they all are by what happens going forward, no? I mean even if every victory they've had the last few years was because of a video camera, it won't help them the rest of this year, next year, etc. So even their most outspoken critic would have to admit they are good if their success continues, right? Right?

 

 

So because Barry Bonds continued to hit home runs after coming off the juice his record should be considered untarnished?

 

C'mon.

[chinatown dragons]

Brees?

 

my bad....fixed it....

[SMF]

I am still waiting for Vet

[Savage Beatings]

Unless of course videotaping signals was just one of many methods of cheating which they have employed...

 

[Perchoutofwater]

Anyone that thinks that this does not tarnish BB and the Pats and all that they have done is a mindless homer. This is every bit as bad as Bonds juicing, if not worse because the whole team was involved in one way or another. Before you Pat homers start calling me envious, I'll go ahead and tell you my team has more rings than yours so it is not envy, it is just an objective opinion from an NFL fan.

[SMF]

Anyone that thinks that this does not tarnish BB and the Pats and all that they have done is a mindless homer. This is every bit as bad as Bonds juicing, if not worse because the whole team was involved in one way or another. Before you Pat homers start calling me envious, I'll go ahead and tell you my team has more rings than yours so it is not envy, it is just an objective opinion from an NFL fan.

 

Not for long

[Puddy]

So because Barry Bonds continued to hit home runs after coming off the juice his record should be considered untarnished?

 

C'mon.

 

Now you're just twisting my words. Some have claimed that maybe the reason Brady et al. have been so good is because of the cheating. The tarnish stays. I'm just asking if they continue to be successful AFTER they stop cheating, don't we have to admit they are good without the video

Edited September 15, 2007 by Puddy

[Chavez]

IMO the worst part is now those douchebag coaches who cover their mouths when calling in plays, or have a phalanx of players standing around holding towels up while they signal in plays (no joke, saw the Eagles doing this against GB last week) will feel justified in doing so.

 

Of course, just going back to shuttling plays in with PLAYERS wouldn't be the worst thing ever. It's pretty impossible to crack as well, and these days, teams substitute darn near every play anyhow.

[Vet]

...we should be able to gauge how good they all are by what happens going forward, no? I mean even if every victory they've had the last few years was because of a video camera, it won't help them the rest of this year, next year, etc. So even their most outspoken critic would have to admit they are good if their success continues, right? Right?

I think you'll be able to judge them by their record on the road from now on.

 

Obviously, they won't have someone standing on the sideline filming the opposing coaches this week at home. I'm sure they already have hidden cameras dispersed throughtout Gillette Stadium to film the opposing sideline. I'm sure they've already bugged the opposing lockerroom too, and clearly the'll be tapped into the Chargers' radio frequencies so they can steal the plays being radioed into Rivers. So, they'll be stealing plays tomorrow no doubt. They may lose anyway, but I'm sure they'll be cheating.

 

The true test will come when their on the road and they can't rig things up quite as easily. So, unless they come up with a new scam to use in the opponent's stadium, I think you'll be able to judge them by their road record from here on out. Unless, of course they come up with a new way to cheat.

[SMF]

Vet I just have to say you are absolutely incredible and I missed you all day buddy

[Skippy]

Teams change their signals anyway, of course they will now. The Pats are good regardless. They also deserve to be punished, I think a 3 game suspension for belicheck should have also been part of the deal.

Fixed.

[bushwacked]

Got it.

 

 

Over half the league does it... Shannahan came out and said he has guys trying to steal the signals as well...

You guys have serious ring envy.

 

 

Well, of course, every team tries to steal signals...although the buzz (and the hard evidence for that matter) is that New England was more proactive and willing to bend (break) the rules for an advantage relative to the rest of the NFL. Matt Millen (former NFL QB) was on KJR Friday stating that the Patriots deviant ways were widely speculated throughout the NFL. He stated that visiting coaches were always suspicious of the Pats...to the point where they would always leave a couple guys sleeping in the visiting locker room overnight and a bunch of coaches think it was more than a pure coincidence that there communication equipment would give out in the 2nd half during key drives.

 

Take it for what it is worth, but having a complete blase' attitude towards a team being caught videotaping another team's signals is pretty F'n retarted, IMO.

[Bill Swerski]

Well, of course, every team tries to steal signals...although the buzz (and the hard evidence for that matter) is that New England was more proactive and willing to bend (break) the rules for an advantage relative to the rest of the NFL. Matt Millen (former NFL QB) was on KJR Friday stating that the Patriots deviant ways were widely speculated throughout the NFL. He stated that visiting coaches were always suspicious of the Pats...to the point where they would always leave a couple guys sleeping in the visiting locker room overnight and a bunch of coaches think it was more than a pure coincidence that there communication equipment would give out in the 2nd half during key drives.

 

I was listening to ESPN Radio on the way home from work on Friday and they were talking about how Belichick would have his players in spamshirts without numbers during training camp when he was in Cleveland. BB's explanation was that he "couldn't trust the media" or something , but it was reported that he actually did that so that he could carry extra players on his roster without anybody outside of the organization noticing. He would allegedly carry up to five extra players before cuts. I don't know how true that is, but I can't imagine a more logical justification for not numbering one's players during practice.

 

They also talked about coaches not staying at the same hotel twice when playing the Pats on the road because they feared that playbooks would get stolen or that the rooms would actually be bugged. I don't know about the latter, but stealing playbooks happens more often that we hear about.

Edited September 16, 2007 by Bill Swerski

[bushwacked]

I was listening to ESPN Radio on the way home from work on Friday and they were talking about how Belichick would have his players in spamshirts without numbers during training camp when he was in Cleveland. BB's explanation was that he "couldn't trust the media" or something , but it was reported that he actually did that so that he could carry extra players on his roster without anybody outside of the organization noticing. He would allegedly carry up to five extra players before cuts. I don't know how true that is, but I can't imagine a more logical justification for not numbering one's players during practice.

 

NFL coaches and players seem to be a pretty tight group. Despite the incredible competition, it seems that there is a deep sense of brotherhood, good ol boys network...etc. Is Bellichechick despised more than other coaches? Almost certainly. But this 'ratting out' of cheating seems like it was more than one isolated incident. My gut feeling is that the Pats, crossed the ethical line one too many times, and someone finally said something. At least that is what I read into it.

[Bill Swerski]

NFL coaches and players seem to be a pretty tight group. Despite the incredible competition, it seems that there is a deep sense of brotherhood, good ol boys network...etc. Is Bellichechick despised more than other coaches? Almost certainly. But this 'ratting out' of cheating seems like it was more than one isolated incident. My gut feeling is that the Pats, crossed the ethical line one too many times, and someone finally said something. At least that is what I read into it.

 

I definitely think there's truth to that. There is certainly a contingent in the league that is prepared to win at all costs (Belichick, Shanahan, Al Davis, etc.). I'm sure that Belichick has pissed off a ton of coaches with antics like this in the past, but you don't hear many of them throwing him under the bus. Mangini probably thought long and hard about blowing the whistle on the man who is single-handedly responsible for his career.

 

Then again, despite the brotherhood factor, this is a lot of nastiness in the league as well. The hatred between George Halas and Curly Lambeau/Vince Lombardi is legendary. And that sentiment is still well and alive today (Bill Polian/Patriots, Mike Shanahan/Al Davis). I read Tony Dungy's book this morning and he talked about an incident in Jacksonville in 2003 where Wayne Weaver sent a security guard to tell Dungy that his son couldn't be on the sideline. Dungy threatened to take his team back into the locker room (which would've likely incited a riot) and told the guard to tell Wayne to be prepared to give everybody their money back. That most likely ignited the current (albeit one-sided) rivalry between those two division rivals. Polian took a shot at them through the media not too long ago: (paraphrasing: "I know that they think that we're their Hatfields, but I'm just not sure that they're our McCoys.")

 

Come to think of it, I'll bet that somebody in the Jets front office tipped off the league. There's been quite a bit of back-and-forth between those two organizations over the past 7 years (Bill's surprise resignation, the Pats charging the Jets with tampering last year, etc.).

Edited September 16, 2007 by Bill Swerski

[derenault]

I'll speak out as a resident New England-er.

 

"If you ain't cheatin', you ain't winnin'" This should be the Pats locker room slogan from now on. To think they could beat a team like Indy without cheating; absolute nonsense. Don't think for a minute this hasn't been going on for years.

 

You'll see a different team for the rest of this year, now that they're out of the other team's defensive huddles. Belichick should be coaching middle school football for the rest of his life.

[Chavez]

To think they could beat a team like Indy without cheating; absolute nonsense.

 

This just in - the Pats are a pretty good team WITHOUT cheating. I doubt some NFL teams could beat the Colts if they lined up shaved gorillas on D and had spies on the Indy sideline.

[Vet]

 

This just in - the Pats are a pretty good team WITHOUT cheating.

 

 

We can speculate that they might be good without cheating, but we'll never know for sure.

[nhoops]

I think you'll be able to judge them by their record on the road from now on.

 

Obviously, they won't have someone standing on the sideline filming the opposing coaches this week at home. I'm sure they already have hidden cameras dispersed throughtout Gillette Stadium to film the opposing sideline. I'm sure they've already bugged the opposing lockerroom too, and clearly the'll be tapped into the Chargers' radio frequencies so they can steal the plays being radioed into Rivers. So, they'll be stealing plays tomorrow no doubt. They may lose anyway, but I'm sure they'll be cheating.

 

The true test will come when their on the road and they can't rig things up quite as easily. So, unless they come up with a new scam to use in the opponent's stadium, I think you'll be able to judge them by their road record from here on out. Unless, of course they come up with a new way to cheat.

 

Typical....

 

Why don't you spend more time speaking positive about your team, post some inj. updates (Pennington, TJones) and how they'll do this week rather than this constant bashing agenda you have? (check out PantherDave's recent post) Just a suggestion.

[AtomicCEO]

 

This just in - the Pats are a pretty good team WITHOUT cheating.

 

How do you quantify that? What game are you sure they didn't illegally acquire a competitive advantage in?

[Puddy]

24-0 at the half. How did they do it without cheating

[uglytuna]

Belichick predicted PAIN !!!!

 

And the Chargers are feeling that.....

 

ugly tuna

[Brentastic]

I agree with Vet - we will only be able to gauge the Pats based on their road games moving forward.