tbimm Posted January 24, 2005 Share Posted January 24, 2005 Mcnabb does. He is IMO a Chunky soup player. He gets the job done. Mcnabb does what he has to do to win. Doesn't always look good doing it but he is effective. He also didn't develop poise in the pocket until he got TO. Mcnabb was most effective running the ball to set up the pass.By the way did anyone notice how much time Mcnabb had to pass back there? He had all freaking day to read the defense. I can't think of one time where Vick could just sit back and set his feet.......... 668576[/snapback] I feel thats his own fault. His propensity to run leaves his linemen looking to shed their blocks to support him . He has time he just doesnt use it ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Score 1 Posted January 24, 2005 Share Posted January 24, 2005 Maybe I am the only one willing to say it, but I think his mother dresses him funny too.668574[/snapback] Yeah but at least she isn't shoveling that God awful Chunky Soup down his throat every chance she gets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgcoach Posted January 24, 2005 Author Share Posted January 24, 2005 Ironically, Cunningham became a much better QB after he got hurt and couldn't run as well anymore and was forced to become more aof a pocket passer. I think Vick will improve. He better, because he looked like a high school QB today. 668583[/snapback] I think you are right. Cunningham was a better QB when he was less a runner and more a passer. He still used his legs but, they were used to get away from pressure and find a rec. The happy feet were a thing of the past and made him more a complete QB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Score 1 Posted January 24, 2005 Share Posted January 24, 2005 My bad Sgt. Ryan, I just realized you meant early on in his career. 668587[/snapback] I knew you'd catch that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skrappy1 Posted January 24, 2005 Share Posted January 24, 2005 I still say Vick reminds me alot of Randall Cunningham, he's just not quite as good as Randall. Ironically, Cunningham became a much better QB after he got hurt and couldn't run as well anymore and was forced to become more aof a pocket passer. 668583[/snapback] True, but I think that even when he was young, Randall was always more effective throwing the ball than Vick has shown as of yet...and yes, I do realize that was partially your point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted January 24, 2005 Share Posted January 24, 2005 Looks like Blitz is:I could be wrong here, but somehow I get the impression that Blitz doesn't think too much of Vick. 668586[/snapback] I have never been much of a Vick fan ... he is a great athlete and is very fast ... but he doesn't have what it takes to be a good QB. When his legs give out his career is over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted January 24, 2005 Share Posted January 24, 2005 Mike Vick = Eric Crouch ... except Eric didn't get to go to the Falcons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Score 1 Posted January 24, 2005 Share Posted January 24, 2005 I have never been much of a Vick fan ... he is a great athlete and is very fast ... but he doesn't have what it takes to be a good QB. When his legs give out his career is over. 668596[/snapback] I corrected my post by editing in "Blitz doesn't think too much of Vick as a QB." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H8tank Posted January 24, 2005 Share Posted January 24, 2005 I can't beleive anyone is still on vick's sack/bandwagon after the way he played. The guy sucks. As said, when he can't run, he can't play. That offense is one dimensional, and the eagles showed how to beat it. What different is vick gonna do next year to win? Nothing, run around like an idiot, same ol same ol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgcoach Posted January 24, 2005 Author Share Posted January 24, 2005 They gotta get him to hang in the pocket until he makes all his reads. If he's pressured use his legs to get time but, don't try taking it downfield unless he's out of choices. Sure those long runs he makes are great but, when a team knows how to bottle him up he has nothing left to fall on because he doesn't take the time to find a rec. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Little Bit Special Posted January 24, 2005 Share Posted January 24, 2005 (edited) Just curious to see what some have to say about him now after seeing a good D. As I have said, shut the run down, make him throw the ball against a good D and here you have it. Many people say Manning will never be great because he can't win the big game. What's the deal on Vick. He has yet to win anything also but, we hear how he's the greatest athlete ever to hit the NFL. I would think the greatest athlete in the game today should be able to shake some things up - No? 11 of 24 for 136 and 1 int. 4 rushes for 26yds. What do you think? 668395[/snapback] I'm confused. I don't think anyone can deny that Vick is an incredible athlete. Is he a great QB yet? No I wouldn't say that, but he is exciting to watch. He can change/dominate a game with his legs at times, but yes he is still too one dimentional to do that against a good defense. Maybe it's just semantics, but I see big difference between a great athlete and great player. There have a been a lot of great players who weren't all that athletic and a lot of great athletes who never became great players. Edited January 24, 2005 by A Little Bit Special Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgcoach Posted January 24, 2005 Author Share Posted January 24, 2005 I'm confused. I don't think anyone can deny that Vick is an incredible athlete. Is he a great QB yet? No I wouldn't say that, but he is exciting to watch. He can change/dominate a game with his legs at times, but yes he is still too one dimentional to do that against a good defense. Maybe it's just semantics, but I see big difference between a great athlete and great player. There have a been a lot of great players who weren't all that athletic and a lot of great athletes who never became great players. 670060[/snapback] Well, there is some credibility to what you say. Let me ask this; how is a great athlete judged? Is it by his accomplishments in his respective sport, by what some commentator says, or by media hype? Let's say I've never seen the person play, how do I judge he's a great athlete? By his accomplishments and what he does on the field. Let's say he is a great athlete by your and or anyone's defination, that's great, my dog runs fast and jumps high, he's a great athlete also, big deal. Vick needs to get something done to go along with his great athlete tag because he sure as heck isn't a very good QB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Little Bit Special Posted January 24, 2005 Share Posted January 24, 2005 He gets hyped because you never know what might happen when he is on the field. The NFL is about making money and he puts fans in the seats and gets people to tune in on television. When he is doing what he does best, admittedly running, he can do some very special things. I agree he shouldn't have made the Pro Bowl, but you have to keep in mind that the Pro Bowl takes fan votes into account. The same fans who continually sent Alstott to the Pro Bowl instead of true fullbacks like Henderson, Griffith, Christian, etc. I'd venture to say most fans don't evaluate players the same way a bunch of guys who spend a large part of their day discussing football in an online forum do.l Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgcoach Posted January 24, 2005 Author Share Posted January 24, 2005 He gets hyped because you never know what might happen when he is on the field. The NFL is about making money and he puts fans in the seats and gets people to tune in on television. When he is doing what he does best, admittedly running, he can do some very special things. I agree he shouldn't have made the Pro Bowl, but you have to keep in mind that the Pro Bowl takes fan votes into account. The same fans who continually sent Alstott to the Pro Bowl instead of true fullbacks like Henderson, Griffith, Christian, etc. I'd venture to say most fans don't evaluate players the same way a bunch of guys who spend a large part of their day discussing football in an online forum do.l 670159[/snapback] Ya, I guess we have way too much time on our hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh 0ne Posted January 24, 2005 Share Posted January 24, 2005 By the way did anyone notice how much time Mcnabb had to pass back there? He had all freaking day to read the defense. I can't think of one time where Vick could just sit back and set his feet.......... 668576[/snapback] Two words for you: pocket presence. Or in Vick's case, lack thereof. I would also have to disagree that Vick is merely Kyle Boller with legs though, as I think Vick has a significantly stronger arm as well. He just has no idea that he should use to PASS THE BALL!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted January 24, 2005 Share Posted January 24, 2005 Give him some WRs for crying out loud. This was his 2nd real season, his first season in the WCO and under a new coach. I know everyone can't wait to jump on the overrated bandwagon since he doesn't produce Fantasy Football numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrick35 Posted January 24, 2005 Share Posted January 24, 2005 Well unless a duck can become a goose ... it's not presumptuous as much as it is obvious 668475[/snapback] I agree that Vick's passing numbers are sub-par but it is still very early in his career. Just look at Bree's in San Diego, his numbers were so bad that his team was involved in one of the goofiest off-season QB chases ever and yet this year Bree's lit it up. Or Gannon in Oakland, Rich was a journeyman QB that ended up with an MVP season in Oakland. Sometimes you find a QB who comes in and plays well from the jump but the more common is the QB that comes in plays for a few years and then starts to hit his stride. This may or may not happen for Vick I just think it's a little early to say he's never going to do it. And even if he never throws for the great stats it's hard to ignore his win/loss record. In 37 career starts through this weeks NFC Championship loss he has 24wins against 12 Losses with 1 Tie. That's roughly a .666 winning percentage which is dammed impressive for a QB that has had to learn & run a different system in each of his 1st two seasons as a full-time starter. And oh yeah, he led his team to the NFC CHampionship game this year as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Vatican Hitsquad Posted January 25, 2005 Share Posted January 25, 2005 He gets hyped because you never know what might happen when he is on the field. The NFL is about making money and he puts fans in the seats and gets people to tune in on television. When he is doing what he does best, admittedly running, he can do some very special things. I agree he shouldn't have made the Pro Bowl, but you have to keep in mind that the Pro Bowl takes fan votes into account. The same fans who continually sent Alstott to the Pro Bowl instead of true fullbacks like Henderson, Griffith, Christian, etc. I'd venture to say most fans don't evaluate players the same way a bunch of guys who spend a large part of their day discussing football in an online forum do.l 670159[/snapback] Although I disagree with you about Vick, this statement is absolutely correct. Dan Patrick said today ESPN created him, he's a highlight reel and nothing more becuase he produces plays that are nice on Sportscenter, but outside of those runs he has no substance. So many excuses are made to try to explain away how BAD he was this season and in front of a national audience he was made to look VERY mediocre at best. He already has a great running game, look at their numbers. Price had a great season in Buff before coming to Atl, what happened in ATL? And even if they DID upgrade the WR position, do you think that WR would get many passes thrown to him? And if they did, would they actually reach their target? A bad WR doesn't throw an INT or cause the QB to fumble the ball, or get sacked. For a guy who "makes every player on his team play better", including the Defense, he sure didn't do much on either side of the ball. "Best athlete in the game" is the only way marketers can sell him, since he obviously isn't the best QB in the game. "Athlete' is a vague enough term that is impossible to define, yet sounds exciting when used. What does it mean? He's certainly not the fastest player in the league. He's not the most accurate. He does have some great moves, though. So is that it? Athlete=the ability to juke, like Barry Sanders? He's hype until he proves otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skrappy1 Posted January 25, 2005 Share Posted January 25, 2005 So is that it? Athlete=the ability to juke, like Barry Sanders? 671072[/snapback] Bite your tongue! As a Lion fan, and also a huge Barry Sanders fan, I take great offense at you comparing Vick to Barry. Barry was a top 5 all-time great player at his position...Vick isn't even close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Vatican Hitsquad Posted January 25, 2005 Share Posted January 25, 2005 I know your kidding, but I would only disagree with you to the extent of I think Sanders was the #3 RB behind Brown and Payton. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted January 25, 2005 Share Posted January 25, 2005 (edited) So many excuses are made to try to explain away how BAD he was this season and in front of a national audience he was made to look VERY mediocre at best. He already has a great running game, look at their numbers. Price had a great season in Buff before coming to Atl, what happened in ATL? And even if they DID upgrade the WR position, do you think that WR would get many passes thrown to him? And if they did, would they actually reach their target? A bad WR doesn't throw an INT or cause the QB to fumble the ball, or get sacked. For a guy who "makes every player on his team play better", including the Defense, he sure didn't do much on either side of the ball. 671072[/snapback] I'm so sick of listenting to the "Vick has no WRs" excuse. I'll take Price, Finneran, and Crumpler over the crap that McNabb has played with recently (Mitchell, Pinkston, Lewis/Smith) any day. Funny how McNabb got to four straight AFC title games and a SB with that sorry-ass crew (and put up significantly better regular-season passing stats). What's Vick's excuse? Edited January 25, 2005 by Bill Swerski Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Random Guy Posted January 25, 2005 Share Posted January 25, 2005 I'm so sick of listenting to the "Vick has no WRs" excuse. I'll take Price, Finneran, and Crumpler over the crap that McNabb has played with recently (Mitchell, Pinkston, Lewis/Smith) any day. Funny how McNabb got to four straight AFC title games and a SB with that sorry-ass crew (and put up significantly better regular-season passing stats). What's Vick's excuse? 671497[/snapback] Peyton Manning sucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kraftykraft Posted January 25, 2005 Share Posted January 25, 2005 I would agree with those who say that Vick has "happy feet" and that he dances around in the pocket and sets up poorly for his throws. He has a heck of an arm though. He's still young, but right now he is a poor throwing QB and an awesome running QB. That adds up to "not-so-great" overall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted January 25, 2005 Share Posted January 25, 2005 (edited) I'm so sick of listenting to the "Vick has no WRs" excuse. I'll take Price, Finneran, and Crumpler over the crap that McNabb has played with recently (Mitchell, Pinkston, Lewis/Smith) any day. Funny how McNabb got to four straight AFC title games and a SB with that sorry-ass crew (and put up significantly better regular-season passing stats). What's Vick's excuse? 671497[/snapback] Let's see: Vick has 2 real seasons as a starter and has made the playoffs twice, while making the NFC Championship game in one of those two years. Not bad eh? I'd take 4 players over 3 any day as well. Edited January 25, 2005 by WaterMan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skrappy1 Posted January 25, 2005 Share Posted January 25, 2005 He has a heck of an arm though.671514[/snapback] True, but so did guys like Kordell Stewart, Jeff George and Ryan Leaf...how did things work out for them? He's still young, but right now he is a poor throwing QB and an awesome running QB. That adds up to "not-so-great" overall. Exactly, the next 2 or 3 years will go a long way in deciding which category Vick will fit into...he'll either work his way into the company of guys like Randall Cunningham, McNabb, and Culpepper or he'll become Kordell redux. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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