Menudo Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 The blog buzz up here in Seattle is that the M's may be on the verge trading the ever under-performing and recently demoted Yuniesky Betancourt in a packaged deal for Freddy Sanchez. Betancourt was a late scratch with the triple A team and its reported Pirate Scouts were in the seats at one of the M's games. :fingerscrossed: I do not want the Pirates to trade Freddy Sanchez unless they get proper value in return. Shortstop is a big area of need for the future they are trying to build, however, if I remember correctly, Bentancourt is in his late 20's, so, this wouldn't make a whole lot of sense. With the old regime of the Pirates, that would make me think it will happen, however, I have more confidence in this group and hope that they wouldn't do something like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 I do not want the Pirates to trade Freddy Sanchez unless they get proper value in return. Shortstop is a big area of need for the future they are trying to build, however, if I remember correctly, Bentancourt is in his late 20's, so, this wouldn't make a whole lot of sense. With the old regime of the Pirates, that would make me think it will happen, however, I have more confidence in this group and hope that they wouldn't do something like that. Yuniesky Betancourt was traded to KC for 2 minor league pitchers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Do Work Son Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 Phillies sweep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menudo Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Phillies sweep I was at the Saturday and Sunday with two friends. There is no denying that the Phillies lineup is phenomenal. I'd hate to pitch against them. From a Pirates fan perspective, the two young guys I wanted to see, McCutchen and Garrett Jones certainly didn't disappoint. McCutchen is gong to be a superstar and Garrett Jones is showing tremendous power. He homered in all three games this weekend, and all three were shots. If the Phillies do add Holiday, they are going to be tough to beat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaxfactor Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 Phillies sweep And you're celebrating what exactly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whomper Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 I was at the Saturday and Sunday with two friends. There is no denying that the Phillies lineup is phenomenal. I'd hate to pitch against them. From a Pirates fan perspective, the two young guys I wanted to see, McCutchen and Garrett Jones certainly didn't disappoint. McCutchen is gong to be a superstar and Garrett Jones is showing tremendous power. He homered in all three games this weekend, and all three were shots. If the Phillies do add Holiday, they are going to be tough to beat. I think Cashman was at the game too . The Pirates are the good teams farm system. Bay, McClouth the list goes on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Do Work Son Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 And you're celebrating what exactly? Steelers-Superbowl Champs Pens- Stanley Cup Champs I can finally celebrate beating a pittsburgh team Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menudo Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 I think Cashman was at the game too . The Pirates are the good teams farm system. Bay, McClouth the list goes on. That is a problem with baseball, not the Pirates. Now, previously, the Pirates weren't getting enough return on their trades and were afraid to spend even what they could afford to, but, this new group has changed that. Baseball is always going to be ridiculously unfair, with no salary cap, but, there are teams that have been able to compete with the system of building a solid minor league corps, having them come up together (assuming they work out as hoped), take your shots for a few years, rinse, repeat. The Marlins used this system for a couple of championships. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timmypg Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 We might keep Wilson & Sanchez. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4335845 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menudo Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 We might keep Wilson & Sanchez. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4335845 We have nothing behind Wilson at SS and 2B isn't are strongest position either. Although, I think they might consider eventually moving Andy LaRoche there, with two of our best prospects being 3rd baseman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wolf Posted July 18, 2009 Share Posted July 18, 2009 At least y'inz have the Stilers and Pens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowboutthemCowboys Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 (edited) We have nothing behind Wilson at SS and 2B isn't are strongest position either. Although, I think they might consider eventually moving Andy LaRoche gone to the Red Sox for prospects per ESPN ETA: for a couple minor leaguers Edited July 22, 2009 by HowboutthemCowboys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darin3 Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 gone to the Red Sox for prospects per ESPN ETA: for a couple minor leaguers At least they got something for him. Definitely helps the Sox and gives the Bucs a couple prospects. Was surprised to see the Sox let their SS prospect go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 gone to the Red Sox for prospects per ESPN ETA: for a couple minor leaguers It was Adam LaRoche 1B, not Andy. Apparently, the Pirates had a deal with another team that supposedly would have provided better players but wouldn't take Adam LaRoche's entire contract (reported on a Pgh sports radio show) but the Sox agreed to take his entire contract and still give a couple players. On the plus side, the trades the last month or two have stocked up the Bucs farm teams. The down side is, their major league team still sucks. Hopefully, these moves can turn into something good in the upcoming years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menudo Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 I can't believe they got anything for Adam LaRoche. All he was doing was blocking good young players from getting at-bats. The Pirates lineup is better this year with LaRoche out of here, and we got a decent SS prospect from the Sox, which was a big position of need. Garrett Jones is simply knocking the cover off the ball. He has 9 HR's in 66 At-Bats since coming up. Unfortunately, he was a late bloomer and is 28 years old, but, it is still nice to see. The Pirates will move him to be our permanent 1st Baseman, and now they can get more of their outfielders in the lineup, including Delwyn Young, who has hit well all year and Brandon Moss, who has been swinging a hot bat of late. Believe it or not, I can finally see good things coming. They won't do as bad as people think the rest of the year with this lineup and decent pitching: 1. McCutchen - REAL DEAL, this guy is going to be great for years to come. 2. Sanchez - Freddy is a solid bat 3. Jones - Mentioned above 4. Doumit - Solid power, RBI guy. Nice to have him back. 2 homers yesterday. 5. Young - Mentioned above...has hit well all year 6. Moss - Heating up lately........finally showing the potential we expected 7. Andy LaRoche - Decent bat for a #7 8. Wilson - Jack is Jack....never great numbers, but, comes through with big hits Does this lineup compare to some of the best in the league, absolutely not, but, there is potential. Trading McLouth made room for McCutchen and added valuable minor league depth. Trading LaRoche was a no brainer, as it clears the way for Jones and a crowded outfield. If Lasting Milledge gets his attitude together and becomes the player many think he is capable of (I have my doubts) the Pirates could have a solid lineup as early as next year. Once again, for the first time in many, many years......... I really like the direction this new group has this team going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowboutthemCowboys Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 It was Adam LaRoche 1B, not Andy. Too many LaRoches. My fault. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max Posted July 24, 2009 Share Posted July 24, 2009 Too many LaRoches. My fault. I know the feeling. At first, I thought it was Andy too and was mad about the trade. Then I saw it was Adam and didn't mind at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whomper Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 what do you guys think of yesterdays trades ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menudo Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 what do you guys think of yesterdays trades ? Absolutely LOVE, LOVE, LOVE the Jack Wilson trade. Clement is a big-time power prospect. I can't even believe we were able to get him for Jack & Snell. I love Jack and what he has done for this team, but, when you start doing what the Pirates are doing, you can't go half-way. It isn't pretty, but, it is a strategy and they had to go through with it completely. The Freddy trade, I'm o.k. with, because we got a guy who is supposed to be 'can't miss' as a SP (yes, I know how that sometimes turns out). As I noted before, they started the plan of getting younger talent, and they continued to do it. I would have been o.k. not trading Freddy, but, I do understand why they did it. Fact is, the Pirates weren't winning anything anytime soon, and they weren't even going to sniff .500 with the group they stated with. They made the decision to completely blow this thing up and start with a young corps and that is what they are doing. They've loaded with enough young talent through the trades the last two years, that they can afford some misses, and as long as some hit, they will have some time to compete before contracts come up and guys go to the Red Sox & Yankees. It isn't pretty or popular, but, I strongly believe that in two years, we will see the method to the madness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 (edited) Absolutely LOVE, LOVE, LOVE the Jack Wilson trade. Clement is a big-time power prospect. The thought on the left coast is contradictory. Clements isn't near the valuable prospect he was in the years past. Clements fell out of favor here big time in the last year to the point he isn't even the best prospect at catcher position (even though he probably will never play catcher) within the Mariner organization. A trade to the NL is kind of puzzling because his only potential future here seemed to be DH. Edited July 30, 2009 by bushwacked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildcat2334 Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Absolutely LOVE, LOVE, LOVE the Jack Wilson trade. Clement is a big-time power prospect. I can't even believe we were able to get him for Jack & Snell. I love Jack and what he has done for this team, but, when you start doing what the Pirates are doing, you can't go half-way. It isn't pretty, but, it is a strategy and they had to go through with it completely. The Freddy trade, I'm o.k. with, because we got a guy who is supposed to be 'can't miss' as a SP (yes, I know how that sometimes turns out). As I noted before, they started the plan of getting younger talent, and they continued to do it. I would have been o.k. not trading Freddy, but, I do understand why they did it. Fact is, the Pirates weren't winning anything anytime soon, and they weren't even going to sniff .500 with the group they stated with. They made the decision to completely blow this thing up and start with a young corps and that is what they are doing. They've loaded with enough young talent through the trades the last two years, that they can afford some misses, and as long as some hit, they will have some time to compete before contracts come up and guys go to the Red Sox & Yankees. It isn't pretty or popular, but, I strongly believe that in two years, we will see the method to the madness. couldn't disagree more on the Jack Wilson deal. Clement is a bust so far.......and the M's pretty much soured on him - didn't pan out as a catcher, and really is no longer a top tier prospect..........and a power hitting 1B, DH?? are not that special anymore - most teams are pretty loaded there Snell has good major league stuff, and a change of scenery and the confines of Safeco could be a big bonus for him. Wilson is a outstanding defensive SS with a few strong years left in him -move the AL could benefit him as well at the plate Cedeno is garbage and the P prospects are mediocre - nice trade for the M's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menudo Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 couldn't disagree more on the Jack Wilson deal. Clement is a bust so far.......and the M's pretty much soured on him - didn't pan out as a catcher, and really is no longer a top tier prospect..........and a power hitting 1B, DH?? are not that special anymore - most teams are pretty loaded there Snell has good major league stuff, and a change of scenery and the confines of Safeco could be a big bonus for him. Wilson is a outstanding defensive SS with a few strong years left in him -move the AL could benefit him as well at the plate Cedeno is garbage and the P prospects are mediocre - nice trade for the M's Snell definitely has potential, but, he is an inconsistent headcase. If he works out for the Mariners, good for them. The potential is definitely there. As for Jack, he is coming to an end of a solid career. He is a phenomenal clubhouse guy and a good defensive shortstop with a below average bat. Effort is never a problem for him. All of that said, I still love it from the Pirates side and what they are trying to do. Clements might be below expectations, but, like Snell, the potential is still there and he is young enough to still get there. If Cedeno or the young pitchers work-out, it is bonus for the Pirates. I do think this was a trade that makes sense for both teams, considering where they are at this moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godtomsatan Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Snell definitely has potential, but, he is an inconsistent headcase. If he works out for the Mariners, good for them. The potential is definitely there. As for Jack, he is coming to an end of a solid career. He is a phenomenal clubhouse guy and a good defensive shortstop with a below average bat. Effort is never a problem for him. All of that said, I still love it from the Pirates side and what they are trying to do. Clements might be below expectations, but, like Snell, the potential is still there and he is young enough to still get there. If Cedeno or the young pitchers work-out, it is bonus for the Pirates. I do think this was a trade that makes sense for both teams, considering where they are at this moment. I'll take the contrarian Seattle fan viewpoint and say that CLEMENT never got a fair shake with the big club for a variety of reasons (signing Johjima to a long-term deal; bringing in Griffey) that had very little to do with what kind of hitter he could become. He's only 25, but he's not going to catch. 2 knee surgeries will prevent that, and he's not really over the last one, which has effected his bat this season in Tacoma. He may not turn into anything, but again, he never really got a very decent chance to succeed here. Sorry Menudo, but Cedeno has a utility man's glove and an A-ball bat. Best hope is you can trade him for another piece at some other time. The pitchers are pretty intriguing players here. All raw, and all with reputedly solid stuff at the Class A level. I don't know how much of the $12.4 million in salary for 2010 the M's acquired the Pirates are picking up in the deal, but my overall impression is that it's an awful lot of prospects to be giving up for taking on some bad contracts another team doled out. While I don't think getting rid of the personnel is going to hurt the M's in any way long term, I'm not really sure what this does for them. They seem to be kind of out of a playoff race, but this deal neither makes them contenders nor is a sign they're giving up. For next year, they've added an expensive and aging glove for shortstop (note I didn't say bat), which doesn't excite me. If Ian Snell can turn his stuff into something that matched his early reputation (and AAA performance since being demoted), then maybe it works out with the M's adding another big righty to the rotation, but barring this, I guess I'm not really seeing a reason to be excited. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 I guess I'm not really seeing a reason to be excited. Exciting? No...but Two long shot throw in minor league pitchers, a journeyman utility guy who is barely a major league player, and an oft-injured young power hitter (who apparently isn't good enough to replace Griffey or Branyan next year) who may play everyday at some point in his career... for a short term upgrade at shortstop and a talented but sometimes under-performing starting pitcher who figures into the rotation short-term and maybe long term. I'll take this trade-off anyday Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godtomsatan Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Exciting? No...but Two long shot throw in minor league pitchers, a journeyman utility guy who is barely a major league player, and an oft-injured young power hitter (who apparently isn't good enough to replace Griffey or Branyan next year) who may play everyday at some point in his career... for a short term upgrade at shortstop and a talented but sometimes under-performing starting pitcher who figures into the rotation short-term and maybe long term. I'll take this trade-off anyday $12.5 million in salary for some mediocre veteran talent that requires a pitcher to turn things around to pay off? Meh.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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