justin Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 (edited) Goose Gossage was elected into the Hall of Fame today. Jim Rice missed election this year by 18 votes (410 was needed, he received 392). http://web.baseballhalloffame.org Election results Edited January 8, 2008 by justin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godtomsatan Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 Awesome for Goose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puddy Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 What about Jack Morris and Alan Trammell Sweet Lou Whitaker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godtomsatan Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 Also, when Tim Raines gets more votes than Mark McGwire (who got the same number of ballots as 2007), it is VERY interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godtomsatan Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 And who is the utter Megan Foxbag that put Todd Stottlemyre on his ballot? Or Shawon Dunston? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveman_Nick Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 Seriously....Jim Rice should be in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godtomsatan Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 Seriously....Jim Rice should be in there. I think they realize they will need to spread things out a bit over the next several years. Rice gets his in 2009. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin Posted January 8, 2008 Author Share Posted January 8, 2008 I think they realize they will need to spread things out a bit over the next several years. Rice gets his in 2009. Well, if he gets in on the regular ballot, that's his last chance. After 2009, he is not elegible and must be selected by the veterans committee (which rarely enshrines a player). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLAYER Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 Congrats to the Goose way overdue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darin3 Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 Seriously....Jim Rice should be in there. And Andre Dawson for that matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muck Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 Interesting stat in the local paper today on Goose: Of the five players he faced most often in his career, three are HOFers -- Robin Yount, George Brett and Rod Carew. Their combined batting average against Gossage was 0.209 (24-115)...and Brett was the only one who was anywhere near his career average (.289 vs. Gossage); the other two guys were sub-.200 against him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muck Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 (edited) I don't remember the full story, but my brain is telling me there is a reason I don't think that Dawson and Rice belong in the HOF. It's ok if nobody is elected for the HOF in a certain year; we don't always have to be enshrining people! Edited January 9, 2008 by muck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godtomsatan Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 Why does Andre Dawson need to be in there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darin3 Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 Why does Andre Dawson need to be in there? Opinion, mostly. Loved him as a Cub. Was on some horrible teams with no protection and still hammered the holy heck out of the ball on a regular basis. .279 career average (nothing to shake a stick at, really) but a .482 slugging percentage, 314 steals, 438 HRs (without 'roids) and 1591 RBI (those last three stats trump Rice's). Rookie of the year in 1977. MVP in 1987 and runner-up twice ('81 and '83). 8-time all-star (starter 7 times). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gopher Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 Opinion, mostly. Loved him as a Cub. Was on some horrible teams with no protection and still hammered the holy heck out of the ball on a regular basis. .279 career average (nothing to shake a stick at, really) but a .482 slugging percentage, 314 steals, 438 HRs (without 'roids) and 1591 RBI (those last three stats trump Rice's). Rookie of the year in 1977. MVP in 1987 and runner-up twice ('81 and '83). 8-time all-star (starter 7 times). And Dawson had a cannon for an arm, if I remember correctly. Blyleven should be in.... it's a shame that he is at a disadvantage because he played on bad/mediocre teams, so his winning percentage suffered and he only got one ring (Twins in '87). 287-250 career win/loss record, 3701 strikeouts, 242 complete games, 60 shutouts, almost 5000 innings (4970), a 3.31 career ERA and 1.19 WHIP. Had he played on DECENT teams, he would have won 300 games no problem. Something should be said for a starting pitcher's longevity in the pre-steroid era. Nonetheless, he was pretty dominant for stretches of his career as well... Averaged 15 wins per season from '70-79, and went on to pitch through 1992. Also topped 200 innings 17 times and 250 innings 10 times (300 once, which was coincidentally the year he also won 20 games), which would be unheard of today. More 4-man rotations back then, but he should still be in IMO..... You have to wonder how some of these other guys even were nominated.... Beck, Rod 2 0.4% Fryman, Travis 2 0.4% Nen, Robb 2 0.4% Dunston, Shawon 1 0.2% Finley, Chuck 1 0.2% Justice, David 1 0.2% Knoblauch, Chuck 1 0.2% Stottlemyre, Todd 1 0.2% Anderson, Brady 0 0.0% Rijo, Jose 0 0.0% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gopher Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 Dawson also had 8 gold gloves... should be in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muck Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 Rice was huge for about four or five years (off the top of my head) ... but that's not worthy of the HOF. He also only played for 13 or 14 years (if my memory serves me correctly). Dawson was huge for one season and really good for a bunch of others ... but, I'm not sure that's worthy of the HOF either. And, how long did Dawson play? 15 years or so? If he hadn't had so many injuries, I could absolutely see him in, but his productivity was cut short by injuries. Blyleven has a much better case (imo) than either Rice or Dawson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gopher Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 Rice was huge for about four or five years (off the top of my head) ... but that's not worthy of the HOF. He also only played for 13 or 14 years (if my memory serves me correctly). Dawson was huge for one season and really good for a bunch of others ... but, I'm not sure that's worthy of the HOF either. And, how long did Dawson play? 15 years or so? If he hadn't had so many injuries, I could absolutely see him in, but his productivity was cut short by injuries. Blyleven has a much better case (imo) than either Rice or Dawson. I agree with your Blyleven comment (obviously, based on my earlier statments). If I'm not mistaken, I believe Dawson was one of only 3-4 players to hit 400+ homers and have 300+ steals. That, combined with the 8 GG's, should justify him being in, IMO. I get what you're saying about having only one truly "dominant" season, though. The one thing that is hard to keep in perspective, though, is that the definition of a dominant season power-wise has changed a lot in the last 20 years. Dawson's MVP season of 1987 (49 HR, 137 RBI) was one of the best individual season's of the entire 80's, not just that year. He hit 20+ homers 12 other times, and topped 30 three times. He played for 21 seasons total, Rice played 16. The defense and the 300 steals is what puts Dawson SLIGHTLY ahead of Rice in my mind. Just to put some things in perspective regarding Blyleven... Comparing him to Jack Morris (another top starting pitcher on the list), Blyleven pitched 5 more seasons than Morris (23 - 18), pitched 1000 more innings (4970 - 3874), had over 1200 more strikeouts (3701 - 2478), over TWICE as many shutouts (60-28), and a significantly better ERA (3.31 - 3.90) and WHIP (1.19 - 1.29). Not saying anything against Morris, but Blyleven should have been in a long time ago, and it will be a shame if he gets left out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muck Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 I didn't realize Dawson played that long... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darin3 Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 Dawson also had 8 gold gloves... should be in. I agree with your Blyleven comment (obviously, based on my earlier statments). If I'm not mistaken, I believe Dawson was one of only 3-4 players to hit 400+ homers and have 300+ steals. That, combined with the 8 GG's, should justify him being in, IMO. I get what you're saying about having only one truly "dominant" season, though. The one thing that is hard to keep in perspective, though, is that the definition of a dominant season power-wise has changed a lot in the last 20 years. Dawson's MVP season of 1987 (49 HR, 137 RBI) was one of the best individual season's of the entire 80's, not just that year. He hit 20+ homers 12 other times, and topped 30 three times. He played for 21 seasons total, Rice played 16. The defense and the 300 steals is what puts Dawson SLIGHTLY ahead of Rice in my mind. Right I totally forgot about the defense / Gold Gloves. And again, he played on some bad, bad Cub teams and he was basically all they had. Everyone talks about what a travesty it is that Rice isn't in. While I don't disagree with those general sentiments, if you make them... you best be making the same ones - if not louder ones - for The Hawk. Thanks for the stats, Gopher! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donutrun Jellies Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 I didn't realize Dawson played that long... Only about 7 of us ever went to his games in Montreal, so I'm not surprised ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gopher Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 You also have to take into account who they played with.... Rice was protected by a lot of other good/great hitters in his lineup... Dwight Evans, Boggs, Buckner, Burks (I think towards the end of Rice's career, anyway), etc. Dawson played on teams for the majority of his 20+ year career that didn't have nearly the supporting cast Boston did, which is probably the reason Dawson was intentionally walked five times in one game.... Makes his numbers that much more impressive, if you ask me. Like I said, though, I'm not bashing Rice OR Morris.... both great players. Just using them as a comparison to help solidify why Blyleven and the Hawk should get in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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