T_bone65 Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 That has a severe drinking problem and needs help badly? My best friend, and he has been my best friend for 20 years, has really gotten bad with his drinking and it is going to cost him his relationship and possibly his job. He has been dating my wifes close friend and co-worker for almost 2 years now and she is fed up with his drinking. I am not talking about once a week getting too drunk here, if he doesn't have at least a 12 pack a day he can't function. I would do anything in the world for Todd and I have done a ton of things for him, and he would and has for me as well. A little background here: He is 38 years old and been married twice and has a daughter that is 14 that he only gets to see 2 times a year becuase he is in Md and she is in TN. He could take more time out to go and see her but it obviously isn't a priority to him. We used to talk a couple of times a day about everything, NASCAR, baseball, football or whatever else. We used to play softball together as well but my knees have given out so I had to give that up. He is a very good softball player, played on 1 national chapmionship team amongst others that have finished in the top 5. My wife and I hooked him up with his current G/F about 2 years ago and they used to get along great. He lives with her and her 2 kids and pays her nothing towards rent, or any other bills. She has an inheritance that she gets monthly, about 10-12K, on top of the 60K or so she gets from being a nurse. Her kids (17 and 13) can't stand him at all, they won't even come out of their rooms when he is home because he is always drunk and trying to talk logically with them making no sense at all whatsoever. He is totally blind to all of this, thinking he is "stepfather of the year" in his own mind. Enough of all of that and time to get to the bottom line. How do I talk to him and make him realize he really needs some help here? I tried talking to him on Sunday night when they came over for a cookout and all he day was deny everything and just get hammered. I took his keys and made him crash on the couch and now he won't even talk to me, says on I taking his G/F's side and can't believe I "turned on him". This really hurts me, since he is my best friend and I really don't know what to do from here. Thanks for any advice on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
untateve Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 bottom line, and you've likely heard this before--if he doesn't admit he has a problem there is nothing you can do for him. You cannot make someone change and you cannot make some admit a problem. Everyone has their "bottom." It sounds like your friend has not hit his. Until he does, you get to feel helpless, but that's only because you are. Sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T_bone65 Posted May 30, 2006 Author Share Posted May 30, 2006 bottom line, and you've likely heard this before--if he doesn't admit he has a problem there is nothing you can do for him. You cannot make someone change and you cannot make some admit a problem. Everyone has their "bottom." It sounds like your friend has not hit his. Until he does, you get to feel helpless, but that's only because you are. Sorry. 1491138[/snapback] That is pretty much what I thought and I thank you for your response. And helpless is exactly how I do feel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beaumont Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 I say you confront him again, but I agree with untateve it does no good until he is ready to admit to a problem ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 My dad is a long time alcoholic. I assure you until the alcoholic admits there is a problem no amount of pressure or discussion will amount to anything but hard feelings. For us that means we have basically cut Grandpa out of our lives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T_bone65 Posted May 30, 2006 Author Share Posted May 30, 2006 My dad is a long time alcoholic. I assure you until the alcoholic admits there is a problem no amount of pressure or discussion will amount to anything but hard feelings. For us that means we have basically cut Grandpa out of our lives. 1491144[/snapback] I know what you mean there, my father was the same way for many years until he had a bad accident after drinking and almost died. He quit drinking for the last 25 of years before he died 3 years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voltaire Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 (edited) Do something nice for him and make him owe you a favor. Then tell him you're taking him to an Alcoholics Anonymous meeting. This is they're website http://www.alcoholics-anonymous.org/?Media=PlayFlash You can get good advice here and can also find a branch near you. Edited May 30, 2006 by Voltaire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devilwoman Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 (edited) T, That is a tough position to be in. It seems Todd is a very unhappy individual who turns to alcohol to make himself feel better...which really makes him feel worse in the long run and adds to his drinking problem. I have a friend who is a functional alcoholic...and really you can talk to them until the cows come home and until they come to terms and feel their drinking is a problem and want help there is not much you can do. Usually something bad needs to happen before they will take responsibility for their drinking...and until they get help to fix the underlying problem of their drinking their behavior probably won't change. 9 times out of 10 the underlying problem is linked to how they feel about them selves and what they continually tell themselves daily. If you can get them to change their thinking then they will change their behavior. Most of the time Professional help is need in this area...but again in order for them to seek professional help they have to think they need it. It is a tough road to go down for both you and your friend. Perhaps on a night when you two are together and alcohol is not involved you could talk to him one on one...maybe a fishing trip or golfing...something you two use to like to do together. Even with guys a heart to heart at the right moment can work wonders. Not that he will rush out and seek help right away...just getting him to think about his situation whether he admits it or not (or likes it or not), often when you bring up a tough subject you can't help but think about what was said during the conversation later....think of the times someone talked to you about something you didn't like or didn't want to hear. I would bet you though about what they said later regardless of how it made you feel. Chances are he has already thought about his drinking and how he has gotten in the situation he is in. In the end be as supportive of them as you can be. Which does not mean supportive of their drinking. Just letting them know that you know they have a drinking problem and you are there to help them if they want it can be helpful to them. Anyway...just something to ponder. Edited May 30, 2006 by devilwoman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czarina Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 bottom line, and you've likely heard this before--if he doesn't admit he has a problem there is nothing you can do for him. You cannot make someone change and you cannot make some admit a problem. Everyone has their "bottom." It sounds like your friend has not hit his. Until he does, you get to feel helpless, but that's only because you are. Sorry. 1491138[/snapback] It's true that Tbone can't make him change, but by confronting his friend with the problem as he sees it, I do think he can sow the seeds of change. He can push him towards his "bottom" by refusing to support his current choices. This is what he started last night by taking his keys. Unfortunately, it's going to take a strong stomach to stick with it. Someday maybe Todd will thank you, Tbone, for taking a stand. Up til now, it sounds like people haven't really spoken up about the problem. While Todd may continue to be in denial about it, the rest of you don't have to be. You're taking the chance that he won't come around and listen to the fact that you're saying these things to him because you care but let's face it, you're at a crossroads already anyhow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T_bone65 Posted May 30, 2006 Author Share Posted May 30, 2006 T, That is a tough position to be in. It seems Todd is a very unhappy individual who turns to alcohol to make himself feel better...which really makes him feel worse in the long run and adds to his drinking problem. I have a friend who is a functional alcoholic...and really you can talk to them until the cows come home and until they come to terms and feel their drinking is a problem and want help there is not much you can do. Usually something bad needs to happen before they will take responsibility for their drinking...and until they get help to fix the underlying problem of their drinking their behavior probably won't change. 9 times out of 10 the underlying problem is linked to how they feel about them selves and what they continually tell themselves daily. If you can get them to change their thinking then they will change their behavior. Most of the time Professional help is need in this area...but again in order for them to seek professional help they have to think they need it. It is a tough road to go down for both you and your friend. Perhaps on a night when you two are together and alcohol is not involved you could talk to him one on one...maybe a fishing trip or golfing...something you two use to like to do together. Even with guys a heart to heart at the right moment can work wonders. Not that he will rush out and seek help right away...just getting him to think about his situation whether he admits it or not (or likes it or not), often when you bring up a tough subject you can't help but think about what was said during the conversation later....think of the times someone talked to you about something you didn't like or didn't want to hear. I would bet you though about what they said later regardless of how it made you feel. Chances are he has already thought about his drinking and how he has gotten in the situation he is in. Anyway...just something to ponder. 1491147[/snapback] I am hoping that the conversation we had on Sunday will help plant that seed, but then again he was already drunk at the point we talked. Things have changed so much for me in the last 2 years, marriage, new house, baby etc...... He actually asked me if I was crazy for going through another marriage, my 2nd, and then when he found out we were having a baby he about died, I already have a 15 y/o son. All of this repsonsiblity is just uncomprehendable(sp) to him, all of this just makes me take a hard look at myself since I used to be out with him all of the time and we used to have great times together. The more I look at it, everything we did centered around drinking, (golf, softball, pool, football games etc....) I am so happy I have changed how I am living and wouldn't trade my life with my wife and daughter for the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voltaire Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 (edited) Cut and paste from the AlAnon site. http://www.alcoholics-anonymous.org/en_inf...a.cfm?PageID=17 ***************** is there an Alcoholic in your Life? ... AA's message of Hope If someone you love has a drinking problem, this booklet will provide you with facts about a simple program of recovery. Through its help, over a million people who once drank too much are now living comfortable and productive lives without alcohol. For six decades, Alcoholics Anonymous has been working successfully for men and women from every kind of background. Before these people came to A.A., most of them had tried to control their drinking on their own and, only after repeated unsuccessful efforts at such control, finally admitted that they were powerless over alcohol. At first, they could not imagine life without it; they certainly did not want to admit that they were alcoholics. But, with the help of other A.A. members, they learned that they did not have to drink. They discovered that life without alcohol not only was possible, but could be happy and deeply rewarding. Often those closest to an alcoholic find it hardest to see and admit that someone they care about can be an alcoholic. Such a thing just can't be true, it seems. In their eagerness to deny the depth of the problem, they may for a time believe the alcoholic's promises. But the repeated breaking of these promises and the increasing difficulties finally force those living with the alcoholic to acknowledge the truth. Then a desperate search for a solution begins. Feeling that all their love and well-intended attempts to help have been wasted, they become deeply discouraged. If you have felt like this, take hope from the experience of A.A. members' spouses, relatives, lovers, and friends who once felt the same way, but have seen the problem drinkers they care about freed from the compulsion to drink. In this booklet, you will find answers to many questions that people asked both before and after the alcoholic in their lives joined A.A. If the problem drinkers laugh at the idea that they are in trouble with alcohol, or if they resent any such suggestions, the following pages may help explain what you can and cannot do. If the alcoholic has already joined A.A., the information that follows will help you o understand the A.A. way of life. Perhaps the best brief description of what A.A. is and what it does is this short "Preamble," usually read at the beginning of every A.A. meeting: Alcoholics Anonymous is a fellowship of men and women who share their experience, strength and hope with each other that they may solve their common problem and help others to recover from alcoholism. The only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking. There are no dues or fees for A.A. membership; we are self-supporting through our own contributions. A.A. is not allied with any sect, denomination, politics, organization or institution; does not wish to engage in any controversy; neither endorses nor opposes any causes. Our primary purpose is to stay sober and help other alcoholics to achieve sobriety. *************************** They talk about a booklet, it's too big and in too many pieces to cut and paste, it's here... http://www.aa.org/bigbookonline/en_tableofcnt.cfm Edited May 30, 2006 by Voltaire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devilwoman Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 I am hoping that the conversation we had on Sunday will help plant that seed, but then again he was already drunk at the point we talked. Things have changed so much for me in the last 2 years, marriage, new house, baby etc...... He actually asked me if I was crazy for going through another marriage, my 2nd, and then when he found out we were having a baby he about died, I already have a 15 y/o son. All of this repsonsiblity is just uncomprehendable(sp) to him, all of this just makes me take a hard look at myself since I used to be out with him all of the time and we used to have great times together. The more I look at it, everything we did centered around drinking, (golf, softball, pool, football games etc....) I am so happy I have changed how I am living and wouldn't trade my life with my wife and daughter for the world. 1491151[/snapback] This is probably not his underlying problem, but I am sure he looks at you and sees something he wish he had. Again the underlying problem is how he feels about himself...he may seem like life is passing him by and he is missing out on all the great stuff, a great marriage, kids who love him etc and wishes he could be as happy as you....again...you are right planting the seed is important. Your behavior around him is important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuke'em ttg Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 You're not alone T, i have the exact same friend/story, the bar is his family and he's not kidding when he says everyday that he's going home to the one he loves,Budweiser .... the only thing that got through to me when i was drinkin like that was some real tough talk from my wife and dad, my friends didn't step in, no real answers, but when my wife and dad gave up and HATED me, i got better.....good-luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cliaz Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 (edited) I have a friend that I’ve known since 1984. He began drinking very heavy during our early and mid 20’s. Nothing out of the norm there. He would smoke pot and drop acid, basically a party guy. He started dating my best friend Cindy and they were all set to get married. Once we all turn around 28 everyone started to calm down and get ready to settle down in life. He didn't. He would still go out partying, doing drugs and hanging around people that a 28 year old man should be hanging around. Fast forward, he started smoking crack. Let me give you some advice: No matter how good of friends he is with you and his wife to your wife it is none of your business to get involved in. I’m not saying that to be mean but when I tried to play the hero and help my friend out, he would just brush it off, sell all of his stuff he ever owned just to get high, show up at my house begging for money and blame his problems on me. He almost cost me my job by showing up at my work in his crack gear begging everyone that walked in the door for money and then to go get me so he could talk to me. He almost cost me my relationship with my wife because she got tired of phone calls in the early morning hours from people (his family and friends) looking for him and for his family to stop by our house at 4am banging on the door looking for him AND because he was breaking into our house and stealing stuff from us. He then robbed a gas station using my name and address (he was filling out some repair form at the counter using my information while waiting for the cashier to open the cash reg. door then pulled a knife and grab the cash.) Then he fled to florida to go meet this girl he knew but we had her call the police when he arrived down there and Jeff was arrested and served 18 months in jail where he would write and call my house daily asking for money. Bottom line: if it doesn’t not relate directly to your family it’s not your problem. It’s a shiiiity stand on the situation but not your problem. Edited May 30, 2006 by cliaz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T_bone65 Posted May 30, 2006 Author Share Posted May 30, 2006 I have a friend that I’ve known since 1984. He began drinking very heavy during our early and mid 20’s. Nothing out of the norm there. He would smoke pot and drop acid, basically a party guy. He started dating my best friend Cindy and they were all set to get married. Once we all turn around 28 everyone started to calm down and get ready to settle down in life. He didn't. He would still go out partying, doing drugs and hanging around people that a 28 year old man should be hanging around. Fast forward, he started smoking crack. Let me give you some advice: No matter how good of friends he is with you and his wife to your wife it is none of your business to get involved in. I’m not saying that to be mean but when I tried to play the hero and help my friend out, he would just brush it off, sell all of his stuff he ever owned just to get high, show up at my house begging for money and blame his problems on me. He almost cost me my job by showing up at my work in his crack gear begging everyone that walked in the door for money and then to go get me so he could talk to me. He almost cost me my relationship with my wife because she got tired of phone calls in the early morning hours from people (his family and friends) looking for him and for his family to stop by our house at 4am banging on the door looking for him AND because he was breaking into our house and stealing stuff from us. He then robbed a gas station using my name and address (he was filling out some repair form at the counter using my information while waiting for the cashier to open the cash reg. door then pulled a knife and grab the cash.) Then he fled to florida to go meet this girl he knew but we had her call the police when he arrived down there and Jeff was arrested and served 18 months in jail where he would write and call my house daily asking for money. Bottom line: if it doesn’t not relate directly to your family it’s not your problem. It’s a shiiiity stand on the situation but not your problem. 1491163[/snapback] I may be wrong here, but there is a difference between crack and alcohol. I have had friends die from crack, and I know their actions are totally different. I know he doesn't do any drugs, other then alcohol, and he would never steal from anyone or anything like that. That's not my concern here, my concern is for a friend that is more like a family member, and his well being. I see the path he is headed for, and I know for a fact that is is very close to losing things dear to him. He is always trying to be the life of the party and everybodys friend. You know he is bad off when he and the GF are in New Mexico at at bar and when he goes to the bathroom she has 2 different people come up to her and ask her why she is with that loser. I will do anything in the world to help him and I will continue too, whatelse are best friends for Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cliaz Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 I may be wrong here, but there is a difference between crack and alcohol. I have had friends die from crack, and I know their actions are totally different. I know he doesn't do any drugs, other then alcohol, and he would never steal from anyone or anything like that. That's not my concern here, my concern is for a friend that is more like a family member, and his well being. I see the path he is headed for, and I know for a fact that is is very close to losing things dear to him. He is always trying to be the life of the party and everybodys friend. You know he is bad off when he and the GF are in New Mexico at at bar and when he goes to the bathroom she has 2 different people come up to her and ask her why she is with that loser. I will do anything in the world to help him and I will continue too, whatelse are best friends for 1491173[/snapback] Oh no i understand where you re coming from, its the same thing I tried to do with my friend, I guess the point of my story was a little off. What I'm trying to say is unless your friend knows he has a problem, understands he needs help (which will not happen until he hits rock bottom.) there is nothing you can do. You would be wasting your time until he understands he needs help. My personal experience is it's not my problem and until you are ready for help, I cannot take cycles away from my personal life to help you out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voltaire Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 Cliaz, You sound too cold and bitter about this. I mean I see where you went through some cr@p with your friend, but you're friend spun deep out of control. And crack does that worse than anything. TBone is just trying to save his buddy while there's still something there for him to save. The guy hasn't lost his GF, he hasn't lost his job, but he's real close to losing both. Plus it's only alcohol. There's still time to salvedge something. TBone, I really think that you gotta look into AA or at least see if anybody there can help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T_bone65 Posted May 30, 2006 Author Share Posted May 30, 2006 Cliaz, You sound too cold and bitter about this. I mean I see where you went through some cr@p with your friend, but you're friend spun deep out of control. And crack does that worse than anything. TBone is just trying to save his buddy while there's still something there for him to save. The guy hasn't lost his GF, he hasn't lost his job, but he's real close to losing both. Plus it's only alcohol. There's still time to salvedge something. TBone, I really think that you gotta look into AA or at least see if anybody there can help. 1491187[/snapback] I agree about AA, I have been through that myself years ago with my father. I would be willing to go there again for my best friend as well, if/when he is willing to try and change himself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cliaz Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 Cliaz, You sound too cold and bitter about this. I mean I see where you went through some cr@p with your friend, but you're friend spun deep out of control. And crack does that worse than anything. TBone is just trying to save his buddy while there's still something there for him to save. The guy hasn't lost his GF, he hasn't lost his job, but he's real close to losing both. Plus it's only alcohol. There's still time to salvedge something. 1491187[/snapback] Hey, I'm just speaking from experience. Unless he is understands he has a problem, there is no point in trying to help. And to say it's only alcohol just tells me that you haven't had much experience in this area (which is a good thing, trust me.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crispy Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 Everybody has their own personal rock bottom. Unfortunately for some it's death. Intervention or isolation. It's a b itch and nothing is worse than having someone you care for basically killing themselves in front of you. Admitting that he has a problem is the first step. You may have to intervene if they can't get there themselves. What's worse: A friend that doesn't talk to you anymore because they feel betrayed or because they are dead. I really hope it works out for your buddy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voltaire Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 Hey, I'm just speaking from experience. Unless he is understands he has a problem, there is no point in trying to help. And to say it's only alcohol just tells me that you haven't had much experience in this area (which is a good thing, trust me.) 1491195[/snapback] You're right, I barely drink myself and never touched drugs, not even pot. Don't have any friends like this. I'm pretty square, a guy who'd rather read a book than go to a party. I did get truely wasted on two occasions and they're both good stories though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveman_Nick Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 Enough of all of that and time to get to the bottom line. How do I talk to him and make him realize he really needs some help here? I tried talking to him on Sunday night when they came over for a cookout and all he day was deny everything and just get hammered. I took his keys and made him crash on the couch and now he won't even talk to me, says on I taking his G/F's side and can't believe I "turned on him". This really hurts me, since he is my best friend and I really don't know what to do from here. Thanks for any advice on this. 1491132[/snapback] I have a friend that is going to be 37 in a month or 2, and he's still bouncing from job to job waiting tables and getting fired because he can't handle having a boss. He's still partying every night, chasing 22 year old girls, smoking dope, and either living with his mom or avoiding paying rent to roommates. The point is that he refuses to get his life into any semblance of what regular people would deem 'together'. And to tell the truth it just drove us apart in the end. He and I have been close friends for a long time, but for the last year or so he's moved on to friends that fit his lifestyle more and that either don't judge him or that he don't illicit bad feelings within himself about his own life. I make an effort here and there, but mostly I have just left the situation alone. It's not my business, and trying to make it my business just drove a stake into the heart of the friendship. My best advice to you is to walk away. You can't help someone with that kind of problem unless they seek your help. Anything else can and probably will damage the relationship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Beatings Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 One of my close friends (have known him for 25 years) got himself hooked on crack. Nobody could say anything to get him to change his life. Finally he lost his business, his house, his wife, and his baby daughter. Now at age 36, he is living back with his parents wondering what the heck happened, but FINALLY getting the help he needs. You won't be able to tell him he has a problem. Just make sure he understands that you are a person that will be there for him through thick and thin... and do NOT be an enabler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveman_Nick Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 TBone, I really think that you gotta look into AA or at least see if anybody there can help. 1491187[/snapback] Voltaire, no offense but it doesn't sound like you have been that close to AA... The only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking AA is a support group for people trying to get control of their problem. It is not an outreach program perse. If people close to this guy wanted to try and stage an intervention and get him into a meeting, that would be one thing. But everyone considering getting involved needs to understand that doing such a thing is physically dangerous and could cost the relationship with the person they are trying to help. What happens then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voltaire Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 (edited) Voltaire, no offense but it doesn't sound like you have been that close to AA...AA is a support group for people trying to get control of their problem. It is not an outreach program perse. 1491217[/snapback] We use to play D&D in a corner at the Alano Club. The first few times I went, I wondered why there was no beer there, fortunatly I never asked. Edited May 30, 2006 by Voltaire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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