skins Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 Been through this with a number of friends--once they decided they wanted to go I have taken three to AA meetings myself. Only stuck with one of them. Do you have any mutual friends who have been through it and gotten sober? Those people will be able to explain what needs to happen best. And even then, as everyone has pointed out, unless he is ready it will mean nothing. Sadly, I expect that the best thing that could happen for your friend now is for his girlfriend to toss him so that he gets a quick wakeup call. And there is nothing wrong with facing your friends about a problem. How they react is on them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bier Meister Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 bottom line, and you've likely heard this before--if he doesn't admit he has a problem there is nothing you can do for him. You cannot make someone change and you cannot make some admit a problem. Everyone has their "bottom." It sounds like your friend has not hit his. Until he does, you get to feel helpless, but that's only because you are. Sorry. 1491138[/snapback] how many therapists does it take to change a lightbulb- just one, but the light bulb has to want to change. tough situation when your buddy is in denial and can't see what is obvious to other..... as many have said, your buddy needs some salient moments and revelation that something needs to change and that most, if not all, are related to his drinking..... my best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clubfoothead Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 I don't care for AA as a program. I've been to about 6 meetings over the past 69 days. The meetings are helpful as far as having a place to go biitch about having to be sober. As an agnostic it felt pretty intellectually dishonest to be there and having really good Josh Gordon as my higher power. Supposedly there's like a 3% chance of staying sober for a year or more in the program as opposed to 1% outside the program. It seems very helpful to some of the people there. He's your friend and you know him better than we do. Nobody will react positively to any discussion about them being an alcoholic. That being said some people deep down want a push. It is a tough call. I had no catastrophic event that lead to my decision to stop drinking. I realized that I had a wife and a handful of friends stressing out about the same conversation that you are agonizing over. That was enough for me. If you have any person in your group of friends that are actively in the process of not doing something, drinking, smoking, gambling and so on, you might want to talk to that person instead. They'd probably know best how your friend will react and they are probably the ones that need to step-up and say something if it need be said. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clownshoe Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 (edited) bottom line, and you've likely heard this before--if he doesn't admit he has a problem there is nothing you can do for him. You cannot make someone change and you cannot make some admit a problem. Everyone has their "bottom." It sounds like your friend has not hit his. Until he does, you get to feel helpless, but that's only because you are. Sorry. 1491138[/snapback] Agreed My dad is a long time alcoholic. I assure you until the alcoholic admits there is a problem no amount of pressure or discussion will amount to anything but hard feelings. For us that means we have basically cut Grandpa out of our lives. 1491144[/snapback] My dad is a recovering alcoholic and there was nothing anyone could do for him until he admitted he had a problem. The alcoholism made it a rough childhood for me and my brothers Edited May 30, 2006 by clownshoe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 He's your friend and you know him better than we do. Nobody will react positively to any discussion about them being an alcoholic. That being said some people deep down want a push. It is a tough call. 1491370[/snapback] I'd say you're better off pushing the issue - lay it on the line, "is alcohol more important to you than a)Tbone; b)your girlfriend; c)your job?" I consider being a friend to be a commitment to make the tough decisions and ride out the bad times as much as the good ones. If he decides to cut you loose because you're on his ass about the drinking, well, you did what you could. Make sure to be there if/when he decides he DOES need some help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perchoutofwater Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 Supposedly there's like a 3% chance of staying sober for a year or more in the program as opposed to 1% outside the program. It seems very helpful to some of the people there. 1491370[/snapback] Hi, my name is Perch, and I'm an alcoholic. I haven't had a drink in over 10 years. Nobody is going to quit drinking unitl they want to quit. Club your percentages are way off. About 10% of those that try to quit on their own are successful, and 30% of those that quit using AA are successful. I'd also add that while 30% might sound low, you have to consider how many people the courts send to AA who have no desire to quite, but go to stay out of jail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
untateve Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 I'd say you're better off pushing the issue - lay it on the line, "is alcohol more important to you than a)Tbone; b)your girlfriend; c)your job?" I consider being a friend to be a commitment to make the tough decisions and ride out the bad times as much as the good ones. If he decides to cut you loose because you're on his ass about the drinking, well, you did what you could. Make sure to be there if/when he decides he DOES need some help. 1492014[/snapback] You can certainly try but unless he admits there's a problem AND wants to quit, he'll dump you as a friend. Of course, that's likely to happen anyway. I just did an evaluation about a month ago. The guy was on probation and knew that he was going to be drug tested. He still used cocaine, got caught, and is now facing a couple of years in prison. If facing prison is not enough to make someone quit, I'm pretty convinced there are no external factors that are going to make a person quit. However, in agreement with Chavez, if/when he decides to quit, be there for him. That is when he is going to need (and accept) as much support as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 Club your percentages are way off. About 10% of those that try to quit on their own are successful, and 30% of those that quit using AA are successful. I'd also add that while 30% might sound low, you have to consider how many people the courts send to AA who have no desire to quite, but go to stay out of jail. 1492072[/snapback] Slightly off-topic, but I read a study some time ago that took issue with court-mandated AA - it may not be effective treatment for agnostics/atheists, for one, since "surrendering to a higher power" is such a big part of their program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perchoutofwater Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 (edited) Slightly off-topic, but I read a study some time ago that took issue with court-mandated AA - it may not be effective treatment for agnostics/atheists, for one, since "surrendering to a higher power" is such a big part of their program. 1492085[/snapback] There is a whole chapter in the Alcoholics Annonymous book (the Big Book) entitled "To the Agnostic". It just says you have to have a higher power. I've know people who have mother earth as a higher power. I've also know people who use a group of people as a higher power. Hell, you can even use door knob as a higher power if you want to . The point is that you are not God. That you as an individual can not control everything. Edit to add: I did not mean to direct that at you Chavez, or at anyone else. Edited May 30, 2006 by Perchoutofwater Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perchoutofwater Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 Also, court mandated AA rarely works. I've only known two or three people in the last 10 years that were mandated by the court to be there that actually sobered up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 i guess i would say the best thing you can do is to keep confronting him about it until he either admits he has a problem and takes some steps, or he blows you off entirely to further sink into his own abyss. forget about hurting his feelings or rubbing him the wrong way or whatever. f*ck that. if he ever gets his chit straight, he'll look back on your prodding as the best thing you ever did for him as a friend. if he doesn't get his chit straight, well, at least you'll know you did everything you could. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 There is a whole chapter in the Alcoholics Annonymous book (the Big Book) entitled "To the Agnostic". It just says you have to have a higher power. I've know people who have mother earth as a higher power. I've also know people who use a group of people as a higher power. Hell, you can even use door knob as a higher power if you want to . The point is that you are not God. That you as an individual can not control everything. Edit to add: I did not mean to direct that at you Chavez, or at anyone else. 1492094[/snapback] No, that's very interesting. Club touched on it earlier - if I had to go, the whole "surrender to a higher power" would leave me a bit - "um, should I surrender to the Unified Field Theory?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perchoutofwater Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 No, that's very interesting. Club touched on it earlier - if I had to go, the whole "surrender to a higher power" would leave me a bit - "um, should I surrender to the Unified Field Theory?" 1492110[/snapback] Hey, what ever works for you man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 Hey, what ever works for you man. 1492112[/snapback] Booze works for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perchoutofwater Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 Booze works for me. 1492116[/snapback] It worked for me too at one time, and then it quit working. If it is still working for you, have fun with it, and hope than it always will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonorator Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 since he is not owning up to his problem, you need to shift the focus to your wife's close friend. if she truly is a close friend, you and your wife need to encourage her to get this man out of her house and away from her kids until he proves that he has straightened up, which may take years. i can't imagine any mother who would continually expose their kids to an alcoholic every single day. nor can i imagine putting someone in my house that my kids refuse (or are maybe afraid) to be around. she needs to realize that she is putting her kids in a bad, unhealthy position and fulfill her role as their mother by getting rid of the drunk. if she lacks the strength, then you should act as her friend to do what is best for the kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perchoutofwater Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 i can't imagine any mother who would continually expose their kids to an alcoholic every single day. nor can i imagine putting someone in my house that my kids refuse (or are maybe afraid) to be around. she needs to realize that she is putting her kids in a bad, unhealthy position and fulfill her role as their mother by getting rid of the drunk. if she lacks the strength, then you should act as her friend to do what is best for the kids. 1492130[/snapback] You shouldn't automatically assume that the guy is a threat to the kids. He may be nothing more than a bad example. Or, on the other hand he may be a good example of what not to become. If he is abusive in anyway then I would agree with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squeegiebo Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 You shouldn't automatically assume that the guy is a threat to the kids. He may be nothing more than a bad example. Or, on the other hand he may be a good example of what not to become. If he is abusive in anyway then I would agree with you. 1492139[/snapback] +1 I had an alcoholic stepfather for a while and didn't know he was an alcoholic - he was just fine with me and my brother. My mother, on the other hand, was a total pain in the ass to live with during that time, so I guess it did affect the kids indirectly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 You shouldn't automatically assume that the guy is a threat to the kids. He may be nothing more than a bad example. Or, on the other hand he may be a good example of what not to become. If he is abusive in anyway then I would agree with you. 1492139[/snapback] Good post - my uncle is an alcoholic, but he's not abusive in any way. Though his problem has given my aunt, who appears to have self-esteem issues, her share of problems. Which means that even if he ISN'T abusive, it can certainly lead to issues down the road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godtomsatan Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 I may be wrong here, but there is a difference between crack and alcohol. Not if you're a drunk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squeegiebo Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 Not if you're a drunk. 1492162[/snapback] I think I understand what you are saying, but crack is illegal, alcohol isn't, so there is a difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 I think I understand what you are saying, but crack is illegal, alcohol isn't, so there is a difference. 1492168[/snapback] I'd also add that a LARGE majority of people can and do use alcohol reasonably responsibly. With crack I think the "responsible users" are a small minority. But I think what gts is essentially saying is that alcohol, crack, whatever - once you're addicted, it's all the same. I'm not sure how the physiological effects of a crackhead quitting crack compare to those of an alcoholic putting down the bottle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squeegiebo Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 But I think what gts is essentially saying is that alcohol, crack, whatever - once you're addicted, it's all the same. 1492177[/snapback] Understood. But crack addiction does bring the possibilities of additional criminal problems, and I'd guess is more of a financial drain on the family. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perchoutofwater Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 Understood. But crack addiction does bring the possibilities of additional criminal problems, and I'd guess is more of a financial drain on the family. 1492183[/snapback] I'm not sure about the financial drain. I guess it really depneds on what you are drinking. I'd normally drink 5 cases of Shiner Bock and two 1.75 liter bottels of WL Weller a week. I've had bar bills over $250, just for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 I'm not sure about the financial drain. I guess it really depneds on what you are drinking. I'd normally drink 5 cases of Shiner Bock and two 1.75 liter bottels of WL Weller a week. I've had bar bills over $250, just for me. 1492200[/snapback] Man, I felt like a lush when I ran up $50 (meal included) once. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.