Homeschooling Poll

[Grits and Shins]

I believe this value you see is of greater import as kids get older.

 

IOW, it matters less that a 6yo has a private tutor (or is homeschooled) than it does that a 21yo is trying to get their bachelors degree from home (especially if the 21yo was not in a traditional school environment for their first 18yrs).

 

 

I'm not sure. The early years are VERY impressionable years. Learning to share and take turns happens during these years. Getting over seperation anxiety from the parent/home also occurs here.

Edited May 2, 2007 by Grits and Shins

[yo mama]

well, yo wasn't talking about just getting out of the house. i don't think piano lessons and museum trips really address what he was getting at.

 

Yeah, that's about right. Not that I have anything against piano lessons or mueseum trips.

[muck]

I'm not sure. The early years are VERY impressionable years. Learning to share and take turns happens during these years. Getting over seperation anxiety from the parent/home also occurs here.

 

 

It has been my experience with our three kids that those things happen when they are 0-4, not 5-12. Your mileage may vary.

[muck]

one undeniable trend we see in today's society is for people to withdraw from the society as a whole into more parochial, insulated sub-groups of people who are like they are. this is generally true across political lines, religious lines, socio-economic lines, racial lines. we are drawing the circles of who we trust and who we feel a sense of community with ever and ever closer in. i think the movement toward homeschooling is, in large part, both a symptom and a further catalyst to that development.

 

 

Yeah ... this is real. I think that the homeschooling trend is also a function of the general populace having less trust in the government and an increasing interest in having more areas of our lives that the government isn't controlling on a day-to-day basis.

[H8tank]

one undeniable trend we see in today's society is for people to withdraw from the society as a whole into more parochial, insulated sub-groups of people who are like they are.

 

What a load of otter bullschit, go eat some sand moran.

 

My kid goes to private school, she is learning how sign, spanish, arithmatic and everything... at 4 years old.

 

Her cousin, same age, colors all day basically at her 'kindergarten' gov't day care.

 

Public schools are a joke, I know, I went to one... and look how I turned out.

[CaP'N GRuNGe]

What a load of otter bullschit, go eat some sand moran.

 

My kid goes to private school, she is learning how sign, spanish, arithmatic and everything... at 4 years old.

 

Her cousin, same age, colors all day basically at her 'kindergarten' gov't day care.

Public schools are a joke, I know, I went to one... and look how I turned out.

 

 

 

Well, that's enough for me. Time to start researching private schools.

[Chavez]

one undeniable trend we see in today's society is for people to withdraw from the society as a whole into more parochial, insulated sub-groups of people who are like they are. this is generally true across political lines, religious lines, socio-economic lines, racial lines. we are drawing the circles of who we trust and who we feel a sense of community with ever and ever closer in. i think the movement toward homeschooling is, in large part, both a symptom and a further catalyst to that development.

 

Good info here.

[AtomicCEO]

Good info here.

 

 

Are you suggesting that the world is getting more impersonal, and that it is causing us to lose our morals?

[cre8tiff]

well, yo wasn't talking about just getting out of the house. i don't think piano lessons and museum trips really address what he was getting at.

 

 

I don't think any of you actually know what homeschooling is. I believe the position that you need to keep your kids in school so they can be threatened by bullies or experience whatever social interactions may come thier way, despite receiving a substandard education, is asinine.

 

As I have repeated several times, use of homeschooling co-ops exposes many homeschooled kids to diverse groups of kids, as well as parents. My children are outgoing, gregarious, and certainly no patsey in standing up for themselves. AND they have received a solid education, learned to think for themselves and adopted good study habits.

 

To assume homeschooling will result in a generation of wall flowers is surprisingly narrow minded from you, Yo.

[Grits and Shins]

I don't think any of you actually know what homeschooling is. I believe the position that you need to keep your kids in school so they can be threatened by bullies or experience whatever social interactions may come thier way, despite receiving a substandard education, is asinine.

 

As I have repeated several times, use of homeschooling co-ops exposes many homeschooled kids to diverse groups of kids, as well as parents. My children are outgoing, gregarious, and certainly no patsey in standing up for themselves. AND they have received a solid education, learned to think for themselves and adopted good study habits.

 

To assume homeschooling will result in a generation of wall flowers is surprisingly narrow minded from you, Yo.

 

 

Guess what ... when you finally have to let your children out of the nest and they must make their own way in the world they WILL have to deal with bullies and WILL have to know how to interact with a diverse group of people, many of whom they not going to like. If you shelter your child from experiencing these activities when they are young when you can be around to offer guidance and support then they will have to attempt to learn how to interact with these people when they are adults.

 

As to homeschooling co-ops exposing homeschooled kids to a diverse group of kids ... do you really believe having your child participate in group activities a couple hours a week with other sheltered kids teaches them how to interact with a diverse group of people? No, your child still has that great big security blanket called mom and dad and not having to go to public school every day where they have to learn to interact with people they like and don't like ... where they have to learn to learn from a variety of instructors, some which they will like, and some they won't.

 

I am not arguing the point that the actual education received is sub-par. I have already said that I am sure in some, but not all, cases the home schooled child is getting a better education ... when you only consider what they are learning from books. So you will have a very well educated graduate very naive in the ways of the world.

[cre8tiff]

Guess what ... when you finally have to let your children out of the nest and they must make their own way in the world they WILL have to deal with bullies and WILL have to know how to interact with a diverse group of people, many of whom they not going to like. If you shelter your child from experiencing these activities when they are young when you can be around to offer guidance and support then they will have to attempt to learn how to interact with these people when they are adults.

 

As to homeschooling co-ops exposing homeschooled kids to a diverse group of kids ... do you really believe having your child participate in group activities a couple hours a week with other sheltered kids teaches them how to interact with a diverse group of people? No, your child still has that great big security blanket called mom and dad and not having to go to public school every day where they have to learn to interact with people they like and don't like ... where they have to learn to learn from a variety of instructors, some which they will like, and some they won't.

 

I am not arguing the point that the actual education received is sub-par. I have already said that I am sure in some, but not all, cases the home schooled child is getting a better education ... when you only consider what they are learning from books. So you will have a very well educated graduate very naive in the ways of the world.

 

 

As I said before, we educated our kids until they were in junior high.

 

When they got into public school, not only were they excellent student (A honor roll), but also student leaders, involved in sports, theater, scholar bowl, the school paper and debate. They stood up to bullies and idiots alike. Maggie has ticked off quite a few African American girls because her exposure to the diversity of homeschooling and our own adoption of my son Bryant taught her to see through thier BS, and defuse the situation.

 

My homeschooled girls have continued to excel in all they attempt, not necessarily due to innate ability, but because they WORK at it. You all haven't hear much about my middle daughter, but she recently placed second in the state of Illinios in the Lincoln-Douglas form of debate, is a first year starter in one of the top drama teams in Illinois, an elected leader of the debate team and serves in model UN, aspiring to go into Law as a career.

 

I don't doubt there are some homeschooling parents out there that coddle thier kids as you guys are saying, but my point is that is a gross generalization and not applicable to all homeschoolers. I may be reacting a bit defensively here, but I will put my homeschooled girls up against any product of public school.

[Azazello1313]

exhibit A

[yo mama]

I don't think any of you actually know what homeschooling is. I believe the position that you need to keep your kids in school so they can be threatened by bullies or experience whatever social interactions may come thier way, despite receiving a substandard education, is asinine.

 

As I have repeated several times, use of homeschooling co-ops exposes many homeschooled kids to diverse groups of kids, as well as parents. My children are outgoing, gregarious, and certainly no patsey in standing up for themselves. AND they have received a solid education, learned to think for themselves and adopted good study habits.

 

To assume homeschooling will result in a generation of wall flowers is surprisingly narrow minded from you, Yo.

 

Woah, there. First off, I don't know much about home schooling and I said as much. I invited you to educate me on why my *admitted* assumptions might be wrong. You seem to have interpreted my comments as some sort of attack or put-down, rather than a genuine invitation to broaden my horizons on the subject. So perhaps we need a change of tack here.

 

Second, how presumptious of *you* to assume that I (or any parent) would send their kid to a public or private school environment where their child would receive a "substandard education" merely so they could be exposed to a diverse population of kids and experiences. You seem to be operating under the (IMO) erroneous presumption that homeschooling is the only quality educational experience a child can get these days. For the purposes of our discussion here, you should assume that whatever choice I'd subject my kid to would involve a solid education.

 

Third, as far as your wall flower comment goes, what can I say. I've yet to meet a home schooled kid who was socially well adjusted outside of their controlled environment. I'm sure there are well adjusted, home school kids running around; perhaps your children are sterling examples. But that's not the point... at least, its not *my* point. My point was that if a child can learn to succed within the population at large, in an environment that is not controlled by mom and dad, that's good training for real life. I simply believe that there's a fine line between "protecting" ones child and issolating them from reality.

 

Keep in mind, if there were zero quality educational facilities in my area I'd totally explore homeschooling my kids. But assuming my kids can get an equivilient education from a more traditional school, I simply don't see any benefit to going the home school route. I can't see how that makes me "narrow minded," but I've been wrong before.

Edited May 3, 2007 by yo mama

[muck]

A couple of quick points:

 

1) People learn best in different forms (some people need to learn how an internal combustion engine works by taking it apart, while others need to see the formulas on a blackboard).

 

2) Traditional classroom settings involve quite a bit of "crowd control" as they do "imparting knowledge and developing skills" ... occasionally more crowd control than imparting knowledge and developing skills.

 

3) When is the right age to allow your kids to really experience the "mean people" and "nasty things" that are out floating around in the general public? As newborns? When they are two? Maybe six? Or eleven?

 

...

 

Regarding point #1, the 'traditional classroom setting' is really only geared to teach one type of learner. Homeschooling can be geared to teach each kid in whatever unique manner that may work best for them. Once they learn how they learn best, they will be able to overcome the difficiencies of other teachers / professors the rest of their life so that they can learn whatever the subject matter is.

 

And, on point #2 ... if your kid can do the classroom work in 30-90 minutes, why should they have to sit around while other kids are out of control? I had mono for six weeks when I was in 8th grade ... and, I'd get my school work done in about three or four hours per WEEK. I remember asking my mom why I had to go back to school to waste all that time...

 

Lastly, on point #3 ... to take an extreme position, if you want your kids out in the world experiencing it for all its nastiness, why do you give them a roof over their head and food to eat? Why not make them scrounge around and fend for themselves? Why? Because it's not how you raise a kid! So, backing off of that ... when is it the right age to start allowing your kid to see the veil pulled back from the "crap that is the rest of the world" pulled back? I'd argue that some of this stuff can happen when they're real little (like sharing toys or dealing with rougher kids) when they're as young as 6 months to three years. Other stuff (like the impact of gang rapes, child prostitution, suicide, drunk driving, etc) will have to wait until their older. How old? Depends on the kid and their maturity level. For me, I don't want someone else revealing this kind of crap to my kids without providing a context. I'm pretty sure that anyone that has had a kid get sexually molested will give me an "amen" to this.

[wiegie]

One main thing about sending your kids to school is that it forces them to deal with problems on their own without the luxury (and potential future harm) of consulting with their parents. I can still quite clearly remember my first week of first grade when I wore tennis shoes to school for gym class instead of bringing them in a bag like I was supposed to do. I still don't remember my teaching telling me not to wear tennis shoes to school, but I can clearly remember Sister Josephita (real name) yelling at me. I had nowhere to turn to for help, so I had to deal with it on my own. I see way too many college kids today who don't know how to deal with problems on their own and it worries me. (I will note that I did not deal with it the way another child dealt with Sister Josephita yelling at her three years later by climbing onto the nun's desk and peeing on it.)

 

On the other hand, one nice thing about about home-schooling is that parents can take advantage of cool stuff that happens as it is happening. (For instance, I remember having to sneak outside during third grade so that I could go observe a partial solar eclipse. (In retrospect, I think my teacher knew what I was doing, but at the time I didn't know that and I had to weigh the expected costs of punishment with the expected benefits of furthering my scientific studies. ))

Edited May 4, 2007 by wiegie

[Grits and Shins]

A couple of quick points:

 

1) People learn best in different forms (some people need to learn how an internal combustion engine works by taking it apart, while others need to see the formulas on a blackboard).

 

2) Traditional classroom settings involve quite a bit of "crowd control" as they do "imparting knowledge and developing skills" ... occasionally more crowd control than imparting knowledge and developing skills.

 

3) When is the right age to allow your kids to really experience the "mean people" and "nasty things" that are out floating around in the general public? As newborns? When they are two? Maybe six? Or eleven?

 

...

 

Regarding point #1, the 'traditional classroom setting' is really only geared to teach one type of learner. Homeschooling can be geared to teach each kid in whatever unique manner that may work best for them. Once they learn how they learn best, they will be able to overcome the difficiencies of other teachers / professors the rest of their life so that they can learn whatever the subject matter is.

 

And, on point #2 ... if your kid can do the classroom work in 30-90 minutes, why should they have to sit around while other kids are out of control? I had mono for six weeks when I was in 8th grade ... and, I'd get my school work done in about three or four hours per WEEK. I remember asking my mom why I had to go back to school to waste all that time...

 

Lastly, on point #3 ... to take an extreme position, if you want your kids out in the world experiencing it for all its nastiness, why do you give them a roof over their head and food to eat? Why not make them scrounge around and fend for themselves? Why? Because it's not how you raise a kid! So, backing off of that ... when is it the right age to start allowing your kid to see the veil pulled back from the "crap that is the rest of the world" pulled back? I'd argue that some of this stuff can happen when they're real little (like sharing toys or dealing with rougher kids) when they're as young as 6 months to three years. Other stuff (like the impact of gang rapes, child prostitution, suicide, drunk driving, etc) will have to wait until their older. How old? Depends on the kid and their maturity level. For me, I don't want someone else revealing this kind of crap to my kids without providing a context. I'm pretty sure that anyone that has had a kid get sexually molested will give me an "amen" to this.

 

 

Point #1 ... it is very true that there are several ways to learn something and some students learn better one way versus another. We should also not forget that most home schoolers are not professionally trained and may not be offering the best education possible either. As your child progresses through life things will not always be presented to them in the manner in which they prefer ... they will have to learn to process input as it is provided.

 

Point #2 ... It is also true that in some schools the teachers are becoming more concerned about exercising control versus teaching ... this is largely a function of the school district in which you live. I expect you, like me, are affleunt enough to live in a nice neighborhood and a good school district where crowd control is really not a factor ... especially at the earlier ages. I will certainly grant, however, that if the home schooler is sufficiently skilled in the art of teaching (and not everybody is) then it makes sense that an individualized one on one instruction format would be more educational in things that you can learn from books.

 

Point #3 ... Certainly I want to protect my child from all things bad, what parent doesn't. But I also want my child to learn how to deal with bad things while I am still in a position to offer guidance and support. Again I expect you, like me, are affluent enough to live in a nice neighborhood and good school district where schools are as "nasty" as you are making out in the extreme. Having said all that if I honestly felt my child's life was in danger or that they were suffering mental anquish from the environment at public school I'd pull them in a heart beat.

[muck]

Note ... the parents don't have to be the teachers in a "homeschool" ... one can hire outside tutors ... The phrase is meant to infer that much of the teaching occurs in a less institutionalized setting.

 

Next, the public and private school options here in KC are great. In fact the average ACT score for graduates from my daughters school over the last decade or so ranges from 27 to 29 (which equates to being around the 90th percentile).

[CaP'N GRuNGe]

As I said before, we educated our kids until they were in junior high.

 

When they got into public school, not only were they excellent student (A honor roll), but also student leaders, involved in sports, theater, scholar bowl, the school paper and debate. They stood up to bullies and idiots alike. Maggie has ticked off quite a few African American girls because her exposure to the diversity of homeschooling and our own adoption of my son Bryant taught her to see through thier BS, and defuse the situation.

 

My homeschooled girls have continued to excel in all they attempt, not necessarily due to innate ability, but because they WORK at it. You all haven't hear much about my middle daughter, but she recently placed second in the state of Illinios in the Lincoln-Douglas form of debate, is a first year starter in one of the top drama teams in Illinois, an elected leader of the debate team and serves in model UN, aspiring to go into Law as a career.

 

I don't doubt there are some homeschooling parents out there that coddle thier kids as you guys are saying, but my point is that is a gross generalization and not applicable to all homeschoolers. I may be reacting a bit defensively here, but I will put my homeschooled girls up against any product of public school.

 

 

Racist much?

[Azazello1313]

Lastly, on point #3 ... to take an extreme position, if you want your kids out in the world experiencing it for all its nastiness, why do you give them a roof over their head and food to eat? Why not make them scrounge around and fend for themselves? Why? Because it's not how you raise a kid! So, backing off of that ... when is it the right age to start allowing your kid to see the veil pulled back from the "crap that is the rest of the world" pulled back? I'd argue that some of this stuff can happen when they're real little (like sharing toys or dealing with rougher kids) when they're as young as 6 months to three years. Other stuff (like the impact of gang rapes, child prostitution, suicide, drunk driving, etc) will have to wait until their older. How old? Depends on the kid and their maturity level. For me, I don't want someone else revealing this kind of crap to my kids without providing a context. I'm pretty sure that anyone that has had a kid get sexually molested will give me an "amen" to this.

 

 

well you know, dropping a kid off at school isn't exactly akin to dropping him off in the jungle with a pack of wolves or something. generally, school is a slow, gradual process whereby your kids are exposed to "life" at a pace they can usually handle. i'm sure every parent worries about their kid being exposed to something too quickly at school. but i would think if you give in to that worry too much you run a very high risk of being overprotective.

[cre8tiff]

Racist much?

 

 

 

Sorry thought everyone already knew we foster Afican-American kids all the time and my adopted son Bryant is also Africa-American. We don't play the race card game. That is what tends to piss some of these girls off, when thier "blackness" doesn't intimidate my kids. But this isn't a conversation about race relations, but homeschooling.

Edited May 4, 2007 by cre8tiff

[Coffeeman]

I didn't know this, cre8, and I'm sure others (incl. Grunge) didn't either. Cool....

 

And if I could convince my wife to homeschool our kids, we could save a ton of money on private. I think she would be great at it, but she doesn't think it would be best for her or our kids, so we pay the man. (I trust her judgement on this, even as I grumble each month paying the bill.)

 

Good luck on your chosen path...

Edited May 4, 2007 by Coffeeman

[muck]

well you know, dropping a kid off at school isn't exactly akin to dropping him off in the jungle with a pack of wolves or something. generally, school is a slow, gradual process whereby your kids are exposed to "life" at a pace they can usually handle. i'm sure every parent worries about their kid being exposed to something too quickly at school. but i would think if you give in to that worry too much you run a very high risk of being overprotective.

 

 

School is also a place where kids get exposed to all sorts of anti-social behavior (disrespect for authority and their peers, poor decision making, bad language, sloppy habits, etc) before they're really ready to understand what's happening in front of their eyes and how to develop a response that is appropriate for them (as oppose to a response that is appropriate for their peer, their teacher or me).

 

So, I guess that apparently one man's "overprotective" is another man's "thoughtful and forward looking parenting" ... just like one man's "you gonna just let the world raise your kid?" is another man's "thoughtful and forward looking parenting".

 

PS - Keep your kids away from mine!

[Azazello1313]

School is also a place where kids get exposed to all sorts of anti-social behavior (disrespect for authority and their peers, poor decision making, bad language, sloppy habits, etc) before they're really ready to understand what's happening in front of their eyes and how to develop a response that is appropriate for them (as oppose to a response that is appropriate for their peer, their teacher or me).

 

well that's where the parenting comes in. school gets your kids part of the day, and you get them the rest. it's up to you as a parent to help them come to grips with what they become exposed to, and to help them to process it in a way that is ultimately fruitful. i'm certainly not saying that everything a kid can be exposed to in the world is positive, but everything they are exposed to in the world is REAL. we probably agree that, as a parent, you definitely want to control the doseage of reality, so to speak. i guess we probably just disagree a bit on what that doseage should be.

[muck]

well that's where the parenting comes in. school gets your kids part of the day, and you get them the rest. it's up to you as a parent to help them come to grips with what they become exposed to, and to help them to process it in a way that is ultimately fruitful. i'm certainly not saying that everything a kid can be exposed to in the world is positive, but everything they are exposed to in the world is REAL. we probably agree that, as a parent, you definitely want to control the doseage of reality, so to speak. i guess we probably just disagree a bit on what that doseage should be.

 

 

Part of the gyst ... when is the right age to even expose your kids to this stuff?

 

Some decide that it's not long after birth (see day care) ... others at 4-5 (pre-school) ... others at 6 (kindergarten / 1st grade) ... others at some point thereafter ...

 

When is the "right time" is a function of what your family needs (requirement for income may necessitate day care when you may not choose that in an optimal situation) and the way your kids are wired. There is nothing written anywhere that you're nuts if you elect to put your kids in this type of environment at 2 months ... so, it's a little silly to say that you're nuts if you elect to wait to put your kids in this type of environment until they are, say, 14 (i.e., high school).

[Chief Dick]

D-

 

Your wife is more than qualified to teach your babies. And having met your children, I wouldn't worry about their social skills.

 

I know you have been thinking about this a long time, and I also know you have done your homework regarding this issue.

 

I would trust MY children with you and your wife.