detlef Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 It's 5pm, we open at 5:30. 6 people who are planning to eat dinner here tonight come by thinking that we open at 5:00. "Do you mind if we just have a drink or two at the bar until you're ready?" Obviously I don't mind. Nothing would make me happier, that's money in my pocket as well as pleasing a customer. However, doing so is against the law. In NC, it is not allowed for me to serve anyone alcohol if my kitchen is not open. Yes, that means that technically, if you come into the restaurant at 5 minutes until close, order and get your food and are the last ones in the restaurant, after the kitchen has closed, it is against the law for me to get you another glass of wine. If some d!ckhead from the ALE came in undercover and asked if it was too late to order dinner, and I said yes, and he saw the bartender pouring anything, I'd get busted. And yes, they do that very thing. A-holes. Once again, merchant is pitted against consumer. In either of the above examples, if I refuse service to someone, they're pissed at me. Do that to enough people and you lose customers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 That's even more asinine than Indiana's "no alcohol sold on Sunday" law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted July 3, 2007 Author Share Posted July 3, 2007 That's even more asinine than Indiana's "no alcohol sold on Sunday" law. At least you can get it after noon on Sundays here. In Idaho, it is against the law for distributors to give away wine openers, champagne buckets, or even hats and t-shirts to customers. Or at least that was the case when I was there in the early 90s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cre8tiff Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 Can you get around it by serving appetizers out of the kitchen? Chips, salsa, etc.? Something the bartend or waitress can get? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skilly Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 Can you get around it by serving appetizers out of the kitchen? Chips, salsa, etc.? Something the bartend or waitress can get? Yeah, maybe you could just have a microwave handy and some frozen cheese sticks or egg rolls you could heat up? There's got to be a loophole somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Controller Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 Can you get around it by serving appetizers out of the kitchen? Chips, salsa, etc.? Something the bartend or waitress can get? That was very creatiff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted July 3, 2007 Author Share Posted July 3, 2007 Can you get around it by serving appetizers out of the kitchen? Chips, salsa, etc.? Something the bartend or waitress can get? Well, I have to actually sell it. Frankly, that's not really the point. Probably once a month at most this sort of thing comes up, so it's not really worth having a policy around. The whole law is in place because, in order to just be a bar in NC, you need to get some special permit, be a private club, etc. The idea is that you could be a "restaurant" but just have your kitchen open 1 sec per day. Or, at least, that's what they sell us for their rationale. You'd like to think that they'd be able to look at it on a case by case basis. It just takes one look at my place, with the half dozen cooks milling around and the walk-in full of food and the stocked line with thousands of dollars worth of equipment and the 80 seat dining room with the relatively small 12 seat bar to realize that, if I'm really trying to pull one over on the state, I'm certainly doing a pretty convincing job. That and the fact that food sales and expenses (with canceled checks to prove it) make a rather convincing case that I am, in fact, a restaurant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted July 3, 2007 Author Share Posted July 3, 2007 (edited) Yeah, maybe you could just have a microwave handy and some frozen cheese sticks or egg rolls you could heat up? There's got to be a loophole somewhere. Well, I do have a reputation as one of the better restaurants in the area to uphold...But yes, I imagine that would work. I suppose that is part of my complaint. The law is there for a specific reason and that reason is not to force fine dining places to demean themselves by offering frozen mozzarella sticks if someone wants to come in and grab a drink before or after the main service. Edited July 3, 2007 by detlef Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codwagon Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 Congratulations. You have just edged out keggerz as the whiniest business owner in America. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bier Meister Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 very weak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whoopazz Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 My daughters orientation at UNC is next week. I might come check on your compliance.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Country Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 Are you not allowed to "serve", or just not allowed to "sell" if the kitchen is not open? You could always give it away for free when the kitchen is closed... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted July 3, 2007 Author Share Posted July 3, 2007 Are you not allowed to "serve", or just not allowed to "sell" if the kitchen is not open? You could always give it away for free when the kitchen is closed... Comping drinks is against the law as well. In fact, I'm not allowed to offer happy hour specials. You can have a special for the day, but whatever you sell it has to be the same price all day to everyone. So, that reminds me. In regards to the spilled drink issue. Technically, it might also be against the law to give a customer a free drink if they spilled the first one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted July 3, 2007 Author Share Posted July 3, 2007 Congratulations. You have just edged out keggerz as the whiniest business owner in America. What about this whole thing makes you happy? The fact that you might be refused service in NC or the fact that the guy who does might get fined? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Holy Roller Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 There are entirely too many laws. I have one in my classroom. DON'T PISS ME OFF!! No. Not really. My one rule is the Golden Rule. I don't know how small businesses do it. Hang in there, my friend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cre8tiff Posted July 4, 2007 Share Posted July 4, 2007 There are entirely too many laws. I have one in my classroom. DON'T PISS ME OFF!!No. Not really. My one rule is the Golden Rule. I don't know how small businesses do it. Hang in there, my friend. You forgot to mention your "I drink in my class anytime I want" rule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmarc117 Posted July 4, 2007 Share Posted July 4, 2007 hey det, is nc the same as sc in that bars use the airline bottles for booze? i was shocked when i saw that a few years ago. i guess it makes it harder for a tender to steal from the joint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted July 4, 2007 Author Share Posted July 4, 2007 hey det, is nc the same as sc in that bars use the airline bottles for booze? i was shocked when i saw that a few years ago. i guess it makes it harder for a tender to steal from the joint. No, and I think SC is done with that one as well (just last year if I recall). I hear you, crazy freaking law and really a shame from an eco standpoint. So much packaging. However, I did have a friend who was in management down there and he said it was great from that standpoint. Talk about portion control. "Well, it says here you sold 15 grey goose martinis last night but you're missing 20." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuke'em ttg Posted July 4, 2007 Share Posted July 4, 2007 Comping drinks is against the law as well. In fact, I'm not allowed to offer happy hour specials. You can have a special for the day, but whatever you sell it has to be the same price all day to everyone. So, that reminds me. In regards to the spilled drink issue. Technically, it might also be against the law to give a customer a free drink if they spilled the first one. What a joke............can't believe they can do that....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted July 4, 2007 Author Share Posted July 4, 2007 What a joke............can't believe they can do that....... Well, to be honest, there is some logic behind not allowing restaurants and bars to offer cheap drinks for a 2 hour window right about the time when everyone is going to drive home. People tend to order another round on top of the one they're drinking right before the special ends, etc. I can see why the powers that be don't want to encourage this. As a consumer I sure prefer it and as a merchant, I would like to be able to charge what I want when I want to. However, this one doesn't even break the top ten of stupid laws regarding selling booze. Of course, I'm not big on regulations of this sort at all, but I can at least see the logic behind some of these rules. The fact that you apparently can't buy cold beer in the store in Mississippi. I guess they don't want you drinking it on the way home. Annoying? certainly. But it achieves the intended goal to some extent. The rules that completely get me are ones like that I started this thread about. They simply don't make any sense at all. It's not a slippery slope to allow the ALE to simply inspect your establishment and recognize it as a legitimate restaurant that just happens to serve booze rather than a bar. Oh, here's another. Technically, if one of my employees wants to have a drink at the bar after work, they need to leave the restaurant and change their clothing. Then, once they've been served, if they so much as answer the phone or help another employee do anything like carry something back to the kitchen, or do anything that could possibly be considered work, that is a violation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuke'em ttg Posted July 4, 2007 Share Posted July 4, 2007 Well, to be honest, there is some logic behind not allowing restaurants and bars to offer cheap drinks for a 2 hour window right about the time when everyone is going to drive home. People tend to order another round on top of the one they're drinking right before the special ends, etc. I can see why the powers that be don't want to encourage this. As a consumer I sure prefer it and as a merchant, I would like to be able to charge what I want when I want to. However, this one doesn't even break the top ten of stupid laws regarding selling booze. .........Forgot how that worked.........haven't been in a Bar in 2 years .......because of tough laws....... Of course, I'm not big on regulations of this sort at all, but I can at least see the logic behind some of these rules. The fact that you apparently can't buy cold beer in the store in Mississippi. I guess they don't want you drinking it on the way home. Annoying? certainly. But it achieves the intended goal to some extent. The rules that completely get me are ones like that I started this thread about. They simply don't make any sense at all. It's not a slippery slope to allow the ALE to simply inspect your establishment and recognize it as a legitimate restaurant that just happens to serve booze rather than a bar. Oh, here's another. Technically, if one of my employees wants to have a drink at the bar after work, they need to leave the restaurant and change their clothing. Then, once they've been served, if they so much as answer the phone or help another employee do anything like carry something back to the kitchen, or do anything that could possibly be considered work, that is a violation. Glad that Meth problem is under control so Law Dogs can focus on the Evil Restrauant Cartell........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted July 4, 2007 Share Posted July 4, 2007 The fun police have taken over way too many aspects of our lives. I look at the crap I used to do when I was 18-25 and wonder how I've never been incarcerated once , let alone 20 times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Holy Roller Posted July 4, 2007 Share Posted July 4, 2007 The fun police have taken over way too many aspects of our lives. I look at the crap I used to do when I was 18-25 and wonder how I've never been incarcerated once , let alone 20 times. Oh don't worry. We're watching you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiegie Posted July 4, 2007 Share Posted July 4, 2007 How about this law from Allendale, Michigan: Me, "What do you have on tap?" Server: "I'm sorry, but we aren't allowed to serve beer on Sundays." Me, "OK, can I see a wine list?" Server, "I'm sorry, but we can't serve wine either." Me, "You mean I can't get anything to drink?" Server, "No, you can't have beer or wine, but you can order hard liquor." Me, "OK, I'll have a margarita." Server, "I'll bring that right out." (True story.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiegie Posted July 4, 2007 Share Posted July 4, 2007 Once again, merchant is pitted against consumer. In either of the above examples, if I refuse service to someone, they're pissed at me. Do that to enough people and you lose customers. Exactly how hard would it be for you to explain to the customer that the law prevents you from getting them a drink? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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