OAK Pass Defense

[Roo]

Is the OAK pass defense touted as being awesome because there is actually talent there or is it because teams find victory via the run (so why bother?).

 

I feel like that stat/rumor is misleading and sort of flukish. I might be wrong.

 

Thoughts on the pass-happy DET offense matchup?

Edited September 4, 2007 by Roo

[darin3]

Is the OAK pass defense touted as being awesome because there is actually talent there or is it because teams find victory via the run (so why bother?).

 

I feel like that stat/rumor is misleading and sort of flukish. I might be wrong.

 

Thoughts on the pass-happy DET offense matchup?

1. Little bit of both.

2. Your opinion.

3. Should allow at least 24 points, IMO.

[Roo]

To the point, I like it.

 

And your Chewy is dancing in perfect synch with my ol skool hip hop. He really cuts it up.

[kpholmes]

Definitely has to do with a little of both.

 

However, many are saying Asomuagh has come into his own and is now one of the elite corners in the NFL.

Fabian Washington has his bad moments but is capable enough to keep the #2 guy in check.

And the safeties are looking at a pretty good situation as well, with Huff and Schwiegert playing very well last year, they can only get better with Donavin Darius joining the backfield.

During the preseason the Raiders showed a few different defensive looks, but one of the most common I was noticing is that when Darius was in, Huff would play the nickel receiver, allowing all three of them to be on the field at the same time.

 

In addition to the secondary looking good, Kirk Morrison, Tommy Howard, Derek Burggess, and dare I say it... Warren Sapp... are also very solid players in that defense. Though they definitely have their weaknesses as well (Sam Williams, Tommy Kelly).

 

So yes, while it was definitely easier for them to look good because of being run on to kill the clock, the defense as a whole is very solid.

If the offense can stay on the field, Oakland has the potential to be a top ten defense.

[TitansFan]

they can only get better with Donavin Darius joining the backfield.

 

Didn't they just cut him?

[RaiderSteve]

Besides having good corner play you have to have a solid pass rush. I believe we have that although it could be a little better. Actually from being at the games this preseason I have noticed a great improvement in our run defense also. How that will hold up against LT and LJ that remains to be seen. But I can promise that Kitna will have his hands full come Sunday.

[RaiderSteve]

Didn't they just cut him?

 

Actually they did cut him KP. BJ Ward came on strong and took his spot. Also Darious was still fighting off a lot of injuries during camp.

[Mystykoekaki]

Talent.

[broncosn05]

Didn't they just cut him?

Indeed.

 

I'd agree a bit of both. I don't see Oakland being able to stop Martz.

[RaiderSteve]

Indeed.

 

I'd agree a bit of both. I don't see Oakland being able to stop Martz.

 

They may not be able to stop him. But it won't be a walk in the park either. I expect ok numbers from Kitna but nothing to awesome. The test will really come week 2 when we travel up to Bronco land.

[kpholmes]

Didn't they just cut him?

Spending so much time on my two IDP teams I haven't been keeping up with my real team.

 

My appologies.

[Square]

I agree with the 20 some points theory. While OAK has a good D, I'm not convinced that the Raiders O will keep the D off the field long enough. I think the Raiders will struggle and go 3 and out often. Give Martz enough time, he should be able to get a couple TDs on the board. I'd guess 2 TDs and a few field goals. I definitely could be wrong but that is my guess at this point.

[Chavez]

 

Team Defense		|---------- PASSING -----------||----- RUSHING -----|  TOTAL		  CMP  ATT   YD	YPA   TD INT  ATT   YD	YPA  TD	 YD		  245  410  2631   6.42  17  18  542  2144  3.96  15   4775NFL rank --->   1	1	1	  5	7  11   32   25	12   23	  3|---------- PASSING -----------||----- RUSHING -----|  TOTAL		  CMP  ATT   YD	YPA   TD INT  ATT   YD	YPA  TD	 YD		  266  414  2705   6.53  16  15  519  2768  5.33  20   5473NFL rank --->   3	2	2	  8	6  20   31   32	32   31	 17|---------- PASSING -----------||----- RUSHING -----|  TOTAL		  CMP  ATT   YD	YPA   TD INT  ATT   YD	YPA  TD	 YD		  253  430  2876   6.69  22  10  504  2010  3.99  10   4886NFL rank --->   2	2	1	 14   23  26   27   23	18	8	  6

 

 

One of these teams is the Raiders awesome d....the other two, not so much.

[RaiderSteve]

I agree with the 20 some points theory. While OAK has a good D, I'm not convinced that the Raiders O will keep the D off the field long enough. I think the Raiders will struggle and go 3 and out often. Give Martz enough time, he should be able to get a couple TDs on the board. I'd guess 2 TDs and a few field goals. I definitely could be wrong but that is my guess at this point.

 

 

Trust me we won't be going 3 and out against that Detroit D very often. If Culpepper can hold on to his snaps we should do fine. If McCown should somehow get the starting nod then you might have a valid point.

[Roo]

Thank you Huddle.

 

Match Against the Defense: The Raiders defense was stout against the pass last year but hidden within those low numbers was one fact - the Raiders defended against fewer passes than any other NFL team. They only won two games all season and opponents were hardly forced to throw in any game. When Roethlisberger had to throw in their loss in Oakland, he had 301 passing yards and a score. The other win was when Arizona was using Leinart in his first NFL game. This is not to say the OAK defense was really bad, but that they were not nearly as tested as any other NFL defense when it came to the pass. Their low ranking against the run reinforces this - teams just ran to win and get the game over with.

[Bronco Billy]

One of these teams is the Raiders awesome d....the other two, not so much.

 

Uh-oh! Now you've done it. You've dissed the World Champs & the Colt homers are going to put you squarely in the crosshairs for having the temerity to criticize them in any manner whatsoever. You better start apologizing right now & beg for fogiveness before it's too late.

 

Funny how an incredibly crappy run D can be confused as a very tough pass D, isn't it? If a team can run on a D at will, the HC would be a fool to throw the ball any more than absolutely necessary.

Edited September 5, 2007 by Bronco Billy

[Locness_Monster]

The Raiders were:

 

25th in rushing D

18th in PPG

1st in passing D, but 23rd in sacks.

22nd in time of possession

 

That tells me:

 

1. Teams ran against them.

2. Teams scored and built up leads against them.

3. Teams ran the clock out and had no need to throw.

 

Compare that with the Ravens.

 

2nd in rushing D

6th in passing D

1st in PPG

1st in sacks

[McBoog]

Thank you Huddle.

 

Match Against the Defense: The Raiders defense was stout against the pass last year but hidden within those low numbers was one fact - the Raiders defended against fewer passes than any other NFL team. They only won two games all season and opponents were hardly forced to throw in any game. When Roethlisberger had to throw in their loss in Oakland, he had 301 passing yards and a score. The other win was when Arizona was using Leinart in his first NFL game. This is not to say the OAK defense was really bad, but that they were not nearly as tested as any other NFL defense when it came to the pass. Their low ranking against the run reinforces this - teams just ran to win and get the game over with.

 

 

What is missing here also os that the Raiders had more rushing attempts against them that any team in the NFL last year

 

Teams did not have to pass beacause their run D sucked! Run the ball, shorten the game against a team that can's score anyway, walk away with the win. The whole thing is smoke and mirrors! #1 ranked pass D and #25th rank rushing D is NOT a good defense! The whole "the offense stunk" thingy is an excuse. They make you go three and out, force them three and out. A great D would do this right? losing 6-0 is better than 20-3 . At least you can point to a "great defensive effort" if you lose a bunch of 9-3 ballgames.

 

Now the two teams with the SECOND best yards per attempt at 6.4 allowed were the Raiders and the Bills (Chicago #1 @ 5.8 PA). The Bills however maintained this average while facing 103 more passing attempts during the season than the Faidahs. Both teams were horrific against the run, and drive sustaining passes generally did not have to be big gainers to move the chains (which also helps hold both yardage and yards per completion down)!

 

What it really boils down to is that opposing offenses did not have to put up big yards and were able to sustain long drives, especially against an exhausted Raider D in the second half (if they were truly great, they would not have been so tired if they forced more three and outs). Score, play keep away, don't take chances, go home. The Chargers on opening day, won 27-0 on the arm of noob starter Rivers who passed for 108 yards and was 8/11 for a 73% comp. FIVE of these passes were for first downs and ONE was for a TD. Six of the eight completed passes either scored or extended drives. THAT my friends is indicative of the Raider D last year and NOT the sign of a very good Pass D, IMO.

 

They gave up 332 points and over 20 points a game! That put them at #18, and given the fact they faced fewer passing plays and gave up "so little yardage" shows that they were not very good at stopping their opponents from scoring. I don't know if there is a stat for points per possession, but I would speculate based on the numbers and from what I saw of the team, they would rank in the lower 1/4.

 

Now when you look at the Best PPG team in the league and the best in their own Division. The numbers are startling.

 

Broken into Rush Att Against / Pass Att Against / % Pass Plays Against / Yards Per Attempt

 

Ravens 367/509/58%/6.7

Chargers 386/538/58%/6.6

Raiders 542/410/43%/6.4

 

Both the Ravens and the Chargers faced nearly 60% pass plays, which tend to gain more yards than running plays, yet held opponents to nearly the same yards per attempt (.3 yards is about a foot) and held teams to fewer point scored (201 and 303). When you see what the Ravens accomplished, there is no comparison, and actually insulting to say the Raiders have a comparable D to the Ravens!

 

The Raiders faced 156 more rushing attempts than the Chargers and 175 more than the Ravens. Why? They could not stop the run. They could not stop tems from moving the chains on them.

 

Good Defense starts by stopping the run! The Raiders couldn't last year, I don't see them better this year. They are not a good D.

[Square]

Trust me we won't be going 3 and out against that Detroit D very often. If Culpepper can hold on to his snaps we should do fine. If McCown should somehow get the starting nod then you might have a valid point.

Heh...I forgot about Culpepper. Anybody know the over under on how many fumbles he will have?

[Roo]

Nice breakdown McBoog.

 

I guess most of us are on the same page then. It's more circumstance than it is skill. If the run works, which it almost always did, teams will not bother to throw [agressively]. And with the lead at half, the same applies - it's clock managment time.

 

This is why I find the Lions matchup so interesting (in an otherwise terrible game). Will Martz reveal the OAK defense for what it really is?

[byron2112]

The offense platyed a rather large part in opposing team's strategy and the defense's performance.

 

That offense scored 12 TD's all season, were worst in TOP, and I believe the Raiders gave opposing offenses the best starting field position in the league. Many opposing drives were started in Raider territory... they also had the worst coverage units in the league.

 

That said, It's pretty obvious that facing the smallest amount of passes in the league, they are definatly not the best pass defense. They were not an elite D last season, IMO they were top 1/3 rd.

 

What they are is very fast on all three levels. They have two corners that can run with anyone and steal plenty of passes, and a very fast safety tandem,. They can also rush the passer inside and out with Sapp and Burgess, although these two could definatly use more help on the line of scrimmage. Howard is a LB with the speed to cover backs and TE's and Morrison is an emerging star at MLB that makes plays in all fazes.

 

It's not a finished product becassue overall it's a real young defense, they're also thin at CB behind the starters and the safteys havn't made many plays on the ball to this point. They have to improve substantially to move into the elite, but I have no doubt they will be showing good improvment this season.

 

I'm sure they can play with what Detroit is putting out there, but if the offense leaves them out there for 35-40 minutes any D is going to fatigue chasing that offense around all day... i don't believ that'll happen becasue the offense is going to emphasize quick releases, dumpoffs and rollouts to help this O-line get going.

[Roo]

Sorry for rehashing, but this still seems relevant. DET showed OAK what happens if you actually test their pass D.

 

It's worth keeping in mind - we all know the "good Ds" shift (often heavily) from year to year, and my predicition is that we see OAK get torn up through the air this year.

[RaiderSteve]

Sorry for rehashing, but this still seems relevant. DET showed OAK what happens if you actually test their pass D.

 

It's worth keeping in mind - we all know the "good Ds" shift (often heavily) from year to year, and my predicition is that we see OAK get torn up through the air this year.

 

We still have a pretty good D. Hats off to Detroit. Martz and company threw at will. Their passing O will give even the toughest Defenses a run for their money! The thing that concerned me was the lack of pass rush on Kitna. It's very simple, no pass rush on the quarterback = Success for Detroit.

[McBoog]

We still have a pretty good D. Hats off to Detroit. Martz and company threw at will. Their passing O will give even the toughest Defenses a run for their money! The thing that concerned me was the lack of pass rush on Kitna. It's very simple, no pass rush on the quarterback = Success for Detroit.

 

Add this to the fact that Detroit has a BAD defense, and even against a BAD offense, they have to score, plenty and often. There was no opportunity for the Lions to slow the game down and play keep away. They are going to be in a shootout almost every week as bad as that D is.

 

I want to see what happens when the Faiduhs play Denver, San Diego, Jax and Chicago. It will be UGLY TOP (time of Possession).

 

IF the Raiders can muster some more offense this year against these teams, look for their defense to suffer since opposing Os will have to play more wide open. It is gonna be another long year for the Sliver and Hack!

[CD6405]

Warren Sapp is a beast on Madden.