The Race for Johan

[whomper]

Where do you think he ends up ? I think the Yankees added Hughes at the request of the Twins today..Hughes, Kennedy and Melky is a nice package..Red Sox where in the mix as well . If he ends up a Yankee and they make Joba a starter thats a nasty 1-2 punch..Add in Wang and possibly Pettite and myabe Mussina as a 5th starter and thats a great rotation..Boston still has a great staff themselves..AL east will be a great race again next year..I wish my Orioles were still a franchise..All we are looking to do is move Bedard , our ace, Nice work O's

[SLAYER]

Where do you think he ends up ? I think the Yankees added Hughes at the request of the Twins today..Hughes, Kennedy and Melky is a nice package..Red Sox where in the mix as well . If he ends up a Yankee and they make Joba a starter thats a nasty 1-2 punch..Add in Wang and possibly Pettite and myabe Mussina as a 5th starter and thats a great rotation..Boston still has a great staff themselves..AL east will be a great race again next year..I wish my Orioles were still a franchise..All we are looking to do is move Bedard , our ace, Nice work O's

 

Yankees are not giving up Hughes & Kennedy, no way. Twins want Lester and Ellsbury(sp) from the Sox which they won't get. the thing in this scenerio is the loser gets Haren. which IMO is the better option. A great SP that is already signed for two more years at a cheap price. Besides Johan had a downslide last year, maybe all those innings are catching up to him. I think there is more upside with Haren than Johan for the long term. Plus they get to keep Hughes.

Pettite is retiring and Moose will be the fifth starter maybe, maybe not. the Joba thng is interesting yes he would be a great SP, but with Mariono at his end and mortal now Joba in the eighth and closing to give Mariano some rest is tempting also.

[Caveman_Nick]

Yankees are not giving up Hughes & Kennedy, no way. Twins want Lester and Ellsbury(sp) from the Sox which they won't get. the thing in this scenerio is the loser gets Haren. which IMO is the better option. A great SP that is already signed for two more years at a cheap price. Besides Johan had a downslide last year, maybe all those innings are catching up to him. I think there is more upside with Haren than Johan for the long term. Plus they get to keep Hughes.

Pettite is retiring and Moose will be the fifth starter maybe, maybe not. the Joba thng is interesting yes he would be a great SP, but with Mariono at his end and mortal now Joba in the eighth and closing to give Mariano some rest is tempting also.

 

 

I just wonder how much of Haren's great numbers come from pitching in Oakland. Zito, Hudson, and Mulder have not fared as well away from Oakland as they did when they were there.

 

This is a tough situation. On the one hand, I am sure we Red Sox fans feel (as I am sure the Yankee fans feel similarly about their young players) that our guys are going to turn into very good to great major league players. That makes it tough to give them up. Also, the Twins want a lot for Santana (obviously), and there is a concern about over spending on young talent and screwing up some other things by getting Santana.

 

The other side is that players like Santana are once in a lifetime acquisitions, and you can't get those players in free agency. The Red Sox and Yankees also have the scratch to find players to out around a dominant starter, so giving up young talent is less of an issue.

 

Whatever happens it will be interesting. But man....doesn't this just make me want a salary cap even more, and my team is one of the big spenders out there.

[whomper]

Yankees are not giving up Hughes & Kennedy, no way. Twins want Lester and Ellsbury(sp) from the Sox which they won't get. the thing in this scenerio is the loser gets Haren. which IMO is the better option. A great SP that is already signed for two more years at a cheap price. Besides Johan had a downslide last year, maybe all those innings are catching up to him. I think there is more upside with Haren than Johan for the long term. Plus they get to keep Hughes.

Pettite is retiring and Moose will be the fifth starter maybe, maybe not. the Joba thng is interesting yes he would be a great SP, but with Mariono at his end and mortal now Joba in the eighth and closing to give Mariano some rest is tempting also.

 

 

The local paper said that they were willing to throw in Hughes because that is what the Twins requested and that allegedly made them front runners

[SLAYER]

The local paper said that they were willing to throw in Hughes because that is what the Twins requested and that allegedly made them front runners

 

They swapped Hughes out for Kennedy. They are not giving up both along with Melky.

[godtomsatan]

The Mariners have the best package to offer, but Santana doesn't want to play on the West Coast.

 

If the Yankees or Red Sox get him, I may seriously swear off baseball.

[budlitebrad]

It looks like the Yankees blew their chance with that deadline BS, leaving the Red Sox as the leading contender. That's gonna be one hell of a starting rotation...

[Azazello1313]

It looks like the Yankees blew their chance with that deadline BS, leaving the Red Sox as the leading contender. That's gonna be one hell of a starting rotation...

 

the fact that this is all over the news tells me one thing...the yankees are the real frontrunners, the twinkies are just trying to bleed a little more out of them. if the red sox were really the frontrunners, it wouldnt make sense for the twins to come out and say the yankees are basically out of it, it basically takes away all of their leverage.

[whomper]

Deal for Santana 'Probably Off'

By RONALD BLUM,AP

Posted: 2007-12-04 10:40:54

Filed Under: MLB

NASHVILLE, Tenn. (Dec. 4) - Hank Steinbrenner's deadline for a Johan Santana trade with Minnesota passed without an agreement.

 

 

 

Minnesota came off its demand that the Yankees include pitcher Ian Kennedy along with pitcher Phil Hughes and center fielder Melky Cabrera, but the Twins still were asking for more than the Yankees were willing to offer.

 

"It's still something that we can't do," Steinbrenner said Tuesday morning. "As far as I'm concerned, it's probably off."

 

Steinbrenner, a senior vice president and son of owner George Steinbrenner, planned to speak with general manager Brian Cashman later Tuesday to assess the team's stance.

 

New Twins general manager Bill Smith didn't seem concerned about the deadline. Of course, baseball teams let deadlines pass all the time only to resume talks later.

 

"We've got good players. We have players that maybe other clubs would like to acquire," he said. "We've had a lot of years where we keep going over and picking up the phone receiver to make sure the dial tone was still (there). We couldn't get the phone to ring."

 

Boston is thought to have offered Jon Lester, Clay Buchholz or Jacoby Ellsbury - but only one of them - as part of a deal.

 

Santana's agent, Peter Greenberg, said his client was angered by a report that he has told the Twins to only trade him to the Yankees or Red Sox. Santana has made no such request, Greenberg said, and also hasn't ruled out returning to the Twins next season.

 

"He was very adamant about that. He wanted to make sure we clarified that. That upset him," Greenberg said. "He's been very clear all along that he wants Bill to make the best deal possible."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Hendricks said Yankees captain Derek Jeter and catcher Jorge Posada had lobbied Pettitte to return, and the pitcher consulted his wife.

 

"Players such as Jeter and Posada told him how much they needed him back, as did Brian Cashman and manager Joe Girardi," Hendricks said. "Andy decided this weekend that he didn't want to keep the Yankees on hold as they sought to determine their team for next year."

 

After Pettitte declined his $16 million option last month, wanting more time for his decision, the Yankees left him a standing $16 million offer.

 

"Sure, I'm happy," Steinbrenner said. "There's still a couple details to work out there."

Edited December 5, 2007 by whomper

[Azazello1313]

hey whomp, you think you could go ahead and paste the entire business section while you're at it?

[SLAYER]

Thanks for the hockey updates Whomper.

[whomper]

 

Sorry fellas I was in a rush..

[SLAYER]

Now that the Yankees have pulled their deal off the table, the Twins are considering the Sox deal. would serve them right if no trade is made and they lose him to FA with only draft picks as compensation. seriously who would you rather have Melky and Hughes or Coco and Lester. Hughes/Lester is a wash both young, both will be good SP in the near future. Melky/Coco is not evev close. Melky is younger,cheaper and has more upside. Coco played part-time to a rookie at the end of last year and won't start this year unless an injury occurs or they use Ellsbury at DH.

[Caveman_Nick]

Now that the Yankees have pulled their deal off the table, the Twins are considering the Sox deal. would serve them right if no trade is made and they lose him to FA with only draft picks as compensation. seriously who would you rather have Melky and Hughes or Coco and Lester. Hughes/Lester is a wash both young, both will be good SP in the near future. Melky/Coco is not evev close. Melky is younger,cheaper and has more upside. Coco played part-time to a rookie at the end of last year and won't start this year unless an injury occurs or they use Ellsbury at DH.

 

 

Jed Lowry and Justin Masterson are also being offered in the Coco/Lester deal. These are very attractive prospects, particularly Materson.

[Sgt. Ryan]

Now that the Yankees have pulled their deal off the table, the Twins are considering the Sox deal. would serve them right if no trade is made and they lose him to FA with only draft picks as compensation. seriously who would you rather have Melky and Hughes or Coco and Lester. Hughes/Lester is a wash both young, both will be good SP in the near future. Melky/Coco is not evev close. Melky is younger,cheaper and has more upside. Coco played part-time to a rookie at the end of last year and won't start this year unless an injury occurs or they use Ellsbury at DH.

 

 

Hughs by a long shot over Lester.

 

 

If Im Minnesota, Im wanting this from each team, or I end discussions with them, and take this to either LA team

 

 

Spankee's - Hughs, Melky and Joba

Boston - Ellsby and Bucholtz

LAD - Looney and one of their top SP prospects

LAA - Kendrick,Ervin Santana and their top prospect.

[Caveman_Nick]

Hughs by a long shot over Lester.

 

I think Lester could be really good, but I don't see how you could say differently than this with what we have seen out of Hughes. Lester needs to pitch some more with success at the major league level before he can be compared with Hughes.

[jackshi17]

Hughs by a long shot over Lester.

If Im Minnesota, Im wanting this from each team, or I end discussions with them, and take this to either LA team

Spankee's - Hughs, Melky and Joba

Boston - Ellsby and Bucholtz

LAD - Looney and one of their top SP prospects

LAA - Kendrick,Ervin Santana and their top prospect.

 

 

Chamberlain (Joba) is completely off the table it will never happen with the Yankees. If that's their final demand then bye!

[Ursa Majoris]

Chamberlain (Joba) is completely off the table it will never happen with the Yankees. If that's their final demand then bye!

As a Minny fan, I have to agree. The Wankees would be nuts to include Hughes AND Chamberlain.

[Sgt. Ryan]

As a Minny fan, I have to agree. The Wankees would be nuts to include Hughes AND Chamberlain.

 

Depends what they want to do. Be medicore for the next decade as they have been the last 7 yrs, or get Santana who can outduel any SP in the game twice in a 5 game series, and 3 times in a 7 game series.

 

Its really that simple. Yankees need Santana more than anyone. Boston could win the WS the next 3 seasons in a row, with what they have right now. NY clearly cant.

[SLAYER]

Depends what they want to do. Be medicore for the next decade as they have been the last 7 yrs, or get Santana who can outduel any SP in the game twice in a 5 game series, and 3 times in a 7 game series.

 

Its really that simple. Yankees need Santana more than anyone. Boston could win the WS the next 3 seasons in a row, with what they have right now. NY clearly cant.

 

 

Sarge you crack me up. The Yanks will not trade Joba Minny knows this and didn't even ask. As far as the Sox winning the WS for the next 3 yrs. Schilling is on his last legs, Manny may play 125 games, and to even think that Lowell and Drew will perform like last year is a dream they need Ellsbury bad, if they trade him then they need Coco to hit. trust me if they are such a lock they wouldn't be going after Johan.

[Sgt. Ryan]

Sarge you crack me up. The Yanks will not trade Joba Minny knows this and didn't even ask. As far as the Sox winning the WS for the next 3 yrs. Schilling is on his last legs, Manny may play 125 games, and to even think that Lowell and Drew will perform like last year is a dream they need Ellsbury bad, if they trade him then they need Coco to hit. trust me if they are such a lock they wouldn't be going after Johan.

 

 

Johan is the best SP in the game. Who wouldnt want him and Beckett going 1-2 and pitching 4-5 games a series. Those 2 alone could win a series with the Nationals lineup.

 

And the Yanks can hang onto Joba like the Lakers did Bynum and continue to fall when it matters. Santana is the best SP in the game, and the biggest difference maker in the game. He is worth more than prospects like Joba, Hughs, and Melky F'n Cabrera.

Edited December 6, 2007 by Sgt. Ryan

[Egret]

Johan is the best SP in the game. Who wouldnt want him and Beckett going 1-2 and pitching 4-5 games a series. Those 2 alone could win a series with the Nationals lineup.

Getting Johan also keeps him away from the Yankees.

[jackshi17]

Depends what they want to do. Be medicore for the next decade as they have been the last 7 yrs, or get Santana who can outduel any SP in the game twice in a 5 game series, and 3 times in a 7 game series.

 

Its really that simple. Yankees need Santana more than anyone. Boston could win the WS the next 3 seasons in a row, with what they have right now. NY clearly cant.

 

Yankees Boston

2001 95 - 82

2002 103 - 93

2003 101 - 95

2004 101 - 98

2005 95 - 95

2006 97 - 86

2007 94 - 96

 

Yeah I would say the Yankees medicore record (as shown above) for the last 7 years has really been terrible compared to any other team in baseball.

Now who can show me how many more games the Yanks would win with Santana this next year 10-20???????

If you don't know what your talking about Sarge then as I have told you before --awww forget it!

Edited December 6, 2007 by jackshi17

[Sgt. Ryan]

Yankees Boston

2001 95 - 82

2002 103 - 93

2003 101 - 95

2004 101 - 98

2005 95 - 95

2006 97 - 86

2007 94 - 96

 

Yeah I would say the Yankees medicore record (as shown above) for the last 7 years has really been terrible compared to any other team in baseball.

Now who can show me how many more games the Yanks would win with Santana this next year 10-20???????

If you don't know what your talking about Sarge then as I have told you before --awww forget it!

 

Re-Read my post, then re-read yours. I was crystal clear about what I said. The Yanks have been mediocre or worse in the last 7 years. How many titles have they won, how many times have they been bounced in the first round, with the largest payroll in North American team sports. George calls any season without a WS Championship a failure. What do you think he thinks of 1st round exits with that payroll. Mediocre or worse is probably a nicer way of putting it than the Spankees own owner would say it.

 

 

And a lil reminder to those who seem to want to post useless stats like regular season win totals. See Below.

 

 

1. The Yanks have 0 WS Championships this decade, the Red Sox have 2.

 

2. The Yanks can win all the regular season games in the world, but its the playoffs that matter, and the Yanks havent got out of the first round lately.

 

3. I cant believe I am having to defend the obvious here, to those calling me out. But the Yanks need Santana more than anyone, including Boston, and Santana alone may not even be enough to beat Boston in a 5 or 7 game series in the playoffs. But he certainly can give them a better shot to win. And if the Yanks are gonig to spend over 200 milion a year in payroll, the most in the league bar none, dont you think they should be competitive when it counts, the playoffs . Santana certainly is huge in that scenerio.

 

 

 

Santana obviously helps them tremendously in a 5 or 7 games series. If you cant understand that logic, dont bother responding. Unless you are apologizing for the spew above.

Edited December 6, 2007 by Sgt. Ryan

[whomper]

I gotta agree that if the Sox get Johan they will be extremely difficult to beat with that Johan/ Becket combo..The Yanks need johan much more then the Sox ISMHO..It might be nice for the Yanks though to see Hughes and Kennedy and Joba become big time pitchers and have the Yanks win from their farm a little bit as opposed to their fantasy baseball approach..I know they would still have the big name non farm yanks but it would be a shift in that direction..Id take Hughes and Melky over Lester and Ellsbury although Ellsbury looks like the real deal..You also have to factor in Lesters health..He is a great young pitcher though..Sox with Johan is pretty deadly though

Edited December 6, 2007 by whomper