MTSuper7 Posted February 4, 2008 Share Posted February 4, 2008 (edited) I haven't seen this on the boards yet, but it certiainly deserves to be mentioned. If these tapes are incriminating, any Patriot fan that still defends Belichick is wearing blinders and/or condones the whole "if you ain't cheatin', you ain't tryin" mantra. Edited February 4, 2008 by MTSuper7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big John Posted February 4, 2008 Share Posted February 4, 2008 I haven't seen this on the boards yet, Buried in this thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted February 4, 2008 Share Posted February 4, 2008 I don't see how a walk-through tape would've drastically influenced the outcome of that game, but that would be two black eyes on this organization in six months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTSuper7 Posted February 4, 2008 Author Share Posted February 4, 2008 I don't see how a walk-through tape would've drastically influenced the outcome of that game, but that would be two black eyes on this organization in six months. It makes you wonder what else might be uncovered with enough digging... Then again, I'm sure BB isn't the only one with skeleton's in his closet (he just might have the most). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted February 4, 2008 Share Posted February 4, 2008 (edited) I don't see how a walk-through tape would've drastically influenced the outcome of that game, but that would be two black eyes on this organization in six months. knowing the formations the Rams had installed for that game would be a huge advantage, especially with the amount of formations and shifting they did. Edited February 4, 2008 by CaptainHook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbpfan1231 Posted February 4, 2008 Share Posted February 4, 2008 I don't see how a walk-through tape would've drastically influenced the outcome of that game, but that would be two black eyes on this organization in six months. Why do you think seeing a walk through would not help? It would give the opposition a free look at your formations and what the play actually will be from that formation. I don't know what goes into a walk through but a lot of coaches script there first X number of plays. You don't think that would be helpful to the opposition? I am not sure taping a walk through would be beneficial but I could see how it is possible that it could help tremendously. On another note - if it is not helpful then why tape it? Why risk getting caught doing something wrong if you don't get anything from it??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LooGie Posted February 4, 2008 Share Posted February 4, 2008 this is do have a problem with. Stealing signals, and using a camera to do it, DURING A GAME, is a tad different, then recording practices and walk-throughs days before (and maybe even longer). This is straight up, no holds barred, CHEATING. It's the same as sending in a spy in an organization, or listening in on play calls, although, not nearly as helpful. There is no 2 ways about this one. I defend BB (as much as I despise the cry baby) for attempting to gain info on defensive play call signals, but this...this is atrocious. This is...well another note on why no one associated with this organization, except for Robert Kraft, has any class at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bring Back Pat!!! Posted February 4, 2008 Share Posted February 4, 2008 Why do you think seeing a walk through would not help? It would give the opposition a free look at your formations and what the play actually will be from that formation. I don't know what goes into a walk through but a lot of coaches script there first X number of plays. You don't think that would be helpful to the opposition? I am not sure taping a walk through would be beneficial but I could see how it is possible that it could help tremendously. On another note - if it is not helpful then why tape it? Why risk getting caught doing something wrong if you don't get anything from it??? I've never seen a walk through before, but I did see the Fox pre-game yesterday. And JJ laughed and said there was absolutely nothing a team could learn from watching a walk through. He even said his oponents could have watched every walk through of his entire coaching career and it wouldn't have changed the outcome of one game. He's the only coach I've seen comment on it, but I'd think they'd know as well as anyone what could be learned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted February 4, 2008 Share Posted February 4, 2008 I've never seen a walk through before, but I did see the Fox pre-game yesterday. And JJ laughed and said there was absolutely nothing a team could learn from watching a walk through. He even said his oponents could have watched every walk through of his entire coaching career and it wouldn't have changed the outcome of one game. He's the only coach I've seen comment on it, but I'd think they'd know as well as anyone what could be learned. then why tape it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted February 4, 2008 Share Posted February 4, 2008 knowing the formations the Rams had installed for that game would be a huge advantage, especially with the amount of formations and shifting they did. Possibly, but do you think that Martz's arrogant ass bothered to change what he did over the course of the season? His lack of use of the running game with 7 Pats dropping into coverage speaks volumes. That said, I'm sick of Belicheat's win-at-all-costs crap. If he's guilty of this, I want him suspended for a year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbpfan1231 Posted February 4, 2008 Share Posted February 4, 2008 then why tape it? Exactly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bring Back Pat!!! Posted February 4, 2008 Share Posted February 4, 2008 then why tape it? Don't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#1 Niners Fan Posted February 4, 2008 Share Posted February 4, 2008 I've never seen a walk through before, but I did see the Fox pre-game yesterday. And JJ laughed and said there was absolutely nothing a team could learn from watching a walk through. He even said his oponents could have watched every walk through of his entire coaching career and it wouldn't have changed the outcome of one game. He's the only coach I've seen comment on it, but I'd think they'd know as well as anyone what could be learned. Its still cheating even if it didnt help... If you are in school and make a cheat sheet for a test, but put a bunch of items that are not tested on that sheet, can you just say, "well it didnt help me because it didnt have helpful information". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bring Back Pat!!! Posted February 4, 2008 Share Posted February 4, 2008 Its still cheating even if it didnt help... If you are in school and make a cheat sheet for a test, but put a bunch of items that are not tested on that sheet, can you just say, "well it didnt help me because it didnt have helpful information". Didn't say anything about whether it was cheating or not. The discusion was whether seeing a walk-through tape would help or not. I was offering an ex-coaches opinion on that topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted February 4, 2008 Share Posted February 4, 2008 I don't see how a walk-through tape would've drastically influenced the outcome of that game, but that would be two black eyes on this organization in six months. You're kidding, right? Martz was the reason that STL lost that game, but a walk through would absolutely give NE information regarding the STL gameplan on both O & D that they otherwise would not have access to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted February 4, 2008 Share Posted February 4, 2008 And JJ laughed and said there was absolutely nothing a team could learn from watching a walk through. That's patently assinine for most football teams. Maybe JJ didn't use walkthroughs as a final go-through of the gameplan. I know for a fact we did this on the Thursday before every Friday game at the high school level, reiterating points of emphasis in the game plan on both sides of the ball, as well as run-throughs of any trick plays that required timing/disguise. I'd find it hard to believe that a walk through would have any value at all - in other words, teams wouldn't use them - if that weren't the case for most teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bring Back Pat!!! Posted February 4, 2008 Share Posted February 4, 2008 That's patently assinine for most football teams. Maybe JJ didn't use walkthroughs as a final go-through of the gameplan. I know for a fact we did this on the Thursday before every Friday game at the high school level, reiterating points of emphasis in the game plan on both sides of the ball, as well as run-throughs of any trick plays that required timing/disguise. I'd find it hard to believe that a walk through would have any value at all - in other words, teams wouldn't use them - if that weren't the case for most teams. What he said was, especially at the Super Bowl, guys are just standing around in suits taking in the scene and he didn't 'show' anything because he always assumed the other team was watching, even if they weren't filming. He said there would be no way to know if someone from the other team was in a press box or luxury box, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted February 4, 2008 Share Posted February 4, 2008 You're kidding, right? Martz was the reason that STL lost that game, but a walk through would absolutely give NE information regarding the STL gameplan on both O & D that they otherwise would not have access to. I confused the pre-game warmups (where some of the formations are utilized) with the full Friday walk-through. In the latter case, yes, a videotape could give a lot of information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Posted February 11, 2008 Share Posted February 11, 2008 NFL sources tell the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette that Patriots coach Bill Belichick "cheated long before last year's game against the Jets." This story doesn't appear to be going away. A field of reporters caught up with former Patriots videotape assistant Matt Walsh on Saturday, but he wouldn't comment on anything. The league is probably going to try to deal with the story as fast as possible. Source: Pittsburgh Post-Gazette Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarryTheRock Posted February 11, 2008 Share Posted February 11, 2008 knowing the formations the Rams had installed for that game would be a huge advantage, especially with the amount of formations and shifting they did. It was amazing how they seemed to have the answer for that offense in that game. Not saying that it was just taping but it sure as hell could not hurt. Knowing the formations that are going to be thrown at you gives you a heads up on your own audibles (for those that question how it would help) among other things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted February 11, 2008 Share Posted February 11, 2008 It was amazing how they seemed to have the answer for that offense in that game. Not saying that it was just taping but it sure as hell could not hurt. Knowing the formations that are going to be thrown at you gives you a heads up on your own audibles (for those that question how it would help) among other things. Teams also have tendencies and proclivity to run certain plays out of certain formations. It's not just knowing the formations that gives a team an edge in this situation - its also having a good idea of what kind of play, and possibly what play will be run. It takes away almost the entire advantage that an offense has with the exception of the snap count and can change the balance of a game dramatically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patriots Posted February 11, 2008 Share Posted February 11, 2008 The guy that says he has the tapes also put on his resume that he played on the college golf team which he did not. Until this "credible" source provides the tapes than I think its safe to say that he is just looking for his time in the spotlight. If Belichick is found guilty of cheating than it is what it is. Then we were all duped. Until then I think its still specuation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted February 11, 2008 Share Posted February 11, 2008 Until this "credible" source provides the tapes than I think its safe to say that he is just looking for his time in the spotlight. He's been busted at least twice taping teams - once by the Jets this past season and by GB in GB the year before. That he taped illegally for NE & Belichek is unquestioned - the NFL already penalized NE a first round pick for his actions on behalf of NE. What this is coming down to is just how far reaching this is. If anyone has zero credibility in this matter, It's Belichek & the Pats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteteacher2001 Posted February 11, 2008 Share Posted February 11, 2008 To quote a guy named Keller Williams which really kind of just fits so well into this years superbowl: "Karma is a serious thing, and a force to be reckoned with." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikesVikes Posted February 11, 2008 Share Posted February 11, 2008 Is the walk through closed to the media? Why should they have any private practice sessions if it isn't going to be cheating to tape them? It is cheating at it's worst, imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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