Still think Dallas won't move up for McFadden?

[Bronco Billy]

BB -- The correct answer is: Nobody should get "upset" in either situation. A player gets cut? I'm not crying for him. A player holds out? I'm not crying for the team or its owner.

 

EVERYthing is in the "contract" -- including the penalties incurred if a player holds out. So, in essence, nobody is violating the agreement. It's all factored into the financial decision-making.

 

By holding out, the player has breached the contract. It's why they don't get paid a dime for the time they miss. More importantly, by withholding their services from the team while still being under contract, they create a deficit for the team at that position (assuming they have value to the team, of course) that the team has no choice but to cure by the spending of additional resources in some manner - or to harm the team by being shorthanded at that position. The only reason players can get away with a hold out is because of the unique set of skills/talent that they have. And because football is so inherently reliant on the entirety of the team for its success, the hold out damages the team without question.

[Sooner Nation]

In theory, if the "perfect" players fell to them at those two spots, I might agree they'd be better off. But Campbell and Phillips? I'd take Jake Long over them in a heartbeat. And you're forgetting that most of the guaranteed money they'd be saving by trading down is the same money they'd have to give to Barber...when they already have a great starting RB, and a couple of good backups.

 

Miami would not do that deal, Sarge.

 

This has nothing to do with spending money, but overpaying 1 player who may prove to be the next Robert Gallery, when Miami wants to draft Gholston or Chris Long, not Jake Long. The Jake Long is a smokescreen imo to get KC to flinch and move up. Miami gets one of the players they covet, and extra picks to move down, while KC gets the player they think they need most.

 

BTW, You are right about one thing, the deal wont get done, but it has nothing to do with Miami not doing it, but instead Jerry Jones not doing it. You obviously dont know the history of Parcells and Ireland in Dallas. It was rumored here that Jerry Jones wouldnt ask for compensation for Ireland leaving before the NFL draft, because of a rumored handshake deal for the #1 pick involving Barber and 2 1s. But the public got wind of this, and the media and fans would crucify Jerry for doing it. This has more to do with why it wont get done, not because Jerry doesnt want Mcfadden or this deal.

Edited April 21, 2008 by Sooner Nation

[Bronco Billy]

This has nothing to do with spending money, but overpaying 1 player who may prove to be the next Robert Gallery, when Miami wants to draft Gholston or Chris Long, not Jake Long. The Jake Long is a smokescreen imo to get KC to flinch and move up. Miami gets one of the players they covet, and extra picks to move down, while KC gets the player they think they need most.

 

BTW, You are right about one thing, the deal wont get done, but it has nothing to do with Miami not doing it, but instead Jerry Jones not doing it. You obviously dont know the history of Parcells and Ireland in Dallas. It was rumored here that Jerry Jones wouldnt ask for compensation for Ireland by allowing him to leave before the draft, because they may be a handshake deal for the #1 pick involving Barber and 2 1s. But the public got wind of this, and the media and fans would crucify Jerry for doing it. This has more to do with why it wont get done, not because Jerry doesnt want Mcfadden or this deal.

 

I have to agree with Sarge, except fopr one thing - I do think that Jones would be willing to do the deal.

[Swiss Cheezhead]

This has nothing to do with spending money, but overpaying 1 player who may prove to be the next Robert Gallery, when Miami wants to draft Gholston or Chris Long, not Jake Long. The Jake Long is a smokescreen imo to get KC to flinch and move up. Miami gets one of the players they covet, and extra picks to move down, while KC gets the player they think they need most.

 

BTW, You are right about one thing, the deal wont get done, but it has nothing to do with Miami not doing it, but instead Jerry Jones not doing it. You obviously dont know the history of Parcells and Ireland in Dallas. It was rumored here that Jerry Jones wouldnt ask for compensation for Ireland leaving before the NFL draft, because of a rumored handshake deal for the #1 pick involving Barber and 2 1s. But the public got wind of this, and the media and fans would crucify Jerry for doing it. This has more to do with why it wont get done, not because Jerry doesnt want Mcfadden or this deal.

 

So you're going on record saying the Dolphins won't take Jake Long?

[Sooner Nation]

I have to agree with Sarge, except fopr one thing - I do think that Jones would be willing to do the deal.

 

Read the last line of the post you replyed to. Jerry Jones would do the deal, if it hadnt leaked already. I still think he is trying to get another team involved and still someway get Mcfadden. But I dont think it WILL happen. And personally, as good as Mcfadden may prove to be, he isnt worth 2 1s and Barber to this team. Dallas clearly needs DB help, could use a OT, and their WR are getting long in the tooth. Dallas could help itself tremendously by keeping Barber and addressing those needs, plus a 2nd RB in this yrs draft. By making this trade, they virtually are replacing Barber with McFadden, still need a backup RB, and wont get the other help that could give this franchise its first playoff win in 11 seasons.

[Sooner Nation]

So you're going on record saying the Dolphins won't take Jake Long?

 

 

Not that my opinion should be going on the record. But yea, I think in the end Jake Long doesnt end up in Miami.

[loyalboyd]

I have. It's why I know that you don't understand the way the NFL works with its labor pool. I do know that you have regularly shown your lack of understanding by hijacking threads like this one to post your lack of understanding because of your feeling that NFL players get screwed over and it's "unfair".

 

 

 

 

This isn't the NBA. I'm not sure why you'd bring up a league that has shot itself in the foot and is now in almost total control by its players (much to its detriment), and also puts out an almost unwatchable product.

 

 

 

 

You continue to show your complete misunderstanding by completely ignoring the concept of the signing bonus, which is guaranteed money paid up front to players before they ever play a down for the team. Regardless of the player's performance, they get to keep the signing bonus (and now with the new extension to the CBA, teams can't even recover in the event of a player violating their contract with the team). You don't seem to have any concept that the players are bound by a contract they they willingly sign and accept the signing bonus. How often do you see players wanting to renegotiate their contract when they underperform? They don't. The team does and the only leverage they have is the ability to cut the player if they won't negotiate downward for poor performance. And even then, the signing bonus paid by the team is long gone and can never be recovered. Players accept the signing bonus as an offset that they are contracted to the team by the term of the contract. Teams pay the signing bonus because they are willing to accept its risk for the opportunity to have the player bound to the team for a set number of years - predetermined by a mutual agreement between the team and the player. That's mutually beneficial and fair despite your undereducated opinion on the matter.

 

And teams that want to cut players who have been injured have to reach an injury agreement with them to cut that player - in essence, they have to buy out the remainder of the contract, because the CBA doesn't allow for injured players with time left on their contacts to be cut without compensation.

 

I've asked you before, and I'll ask you again. Please get some kind of understanding of what you are talking about before you go off on these asides. I've tried to provide some information for you so that you can get up to speed on these matters in the past, and you repeatedly refuse to learn anything from it.

 

Why are you so steadfastly locked into a position that can't be rationally defended?

 

 

I have a greater and deeper understanding than I will type on here and leave it at that. Its no need to show how much I know or who I know. Just the general basics is all that is need. But I didn't start this though. You stated two things. One Drew is the Antichrist. The second is that i need to understand the legal concept of the NFL. I do have a concept but to think sign bonus makes things better is hilarious. All I am saying that that a 100 million dollar contract with a long-term deal via length. Will in the avearge case never be seen. They will be cut before they ever see all that money. Yes the player knows this. But that contract is still broken one way or another. I know about injury settlements and what not. But what about those players that aren't injured and don't have nothing wrong with them and their performance just drops. Thats what I am talking about. Is this the NBA no. But when its all said and done at least they honor those contracts period. If it stated 100 million they get it. ala Grant Hill and we all knew his game dropped. I love football; but in reality its a business players are more than likely to have injures that ail them for the rest of their life. Thats why I stated if he is in a contract and ask for more money thats fine by me. Because as soon as they think he is too old, got to many miles on him, stay injured to much or just isn't performing. They cut them. Yeah he get that signing bonus. But what about the rest of the money he will never see. Its a crazy world we live in and we got one body. Once he is retired he own see that type of money coming in like that more than likely. Yes its other ways to make money. But a contract isn't binding in the NFL per say. They won't see every bit of that contract in many cases. That is why players are the way they are now.

 

Last thing.

I had no intention on high jack this thread. I am done with it and try to stick to the subject matter. So if you are done. I am too with this part of the thread.

[piratesownninjas]

Barber's asking price is comparable to deals given to Kansas City running back Larry Johnson (five years, $43.2 million), Washington's Clinton Portis (eight years, $50.5 million) and San Diego's LaDainian Tomlinson (six years, $60 million).

He's not in that class.

Barber is an excellent back, but he's not a workhorse. Evidence can be found in the Giants playoff game. He wears down due to his style. He runs so angry and fights for every inch, and I'm not so sure you can do that and carry the ball 20-25 times a game. Barber in my opinion, is best suited carrying the ball 15-18 times a game so he can be at his best.

I'm not at all knocking him, as he's a great player, but I don't think he's in the caliber of the Tomlinson's, Johnsons, and Jacksons of this league.

[Grits and Shins]

I have a greater and deeper understanding than I will type on here

 

And I guess we just have to accept this as true despite evidence that leads us to believe otherwise?

[loyalboyd]

And I guess we just have to accept this as true despite evidence that leads us to believe otherwise?

 

Does not really matter to me if u do or don't.

Edited April 22, 2008 by loyalboyd

[HowboutthemCowboys]

Sources: Marion Barber and Dallas Cowboys far apart on contract numbers

 

From Calvin Watkins at the DMN:

 

The Cowboys have held preliminary talks with the running back's agent, Drew Rosenhaus, according to multiple sources, and are offering a financial package in the $30 million range. Barber wants a package between $40 million and $60 million. [snip] Barber's asking price is comparable to deals given to Kansas City running back Larry Johnson (five years, $43.2 million), Washington's Clinton Portis (eight years, $50.5 million) and San Diego's LaDainian Tomlinson (six years, $60 million). The Cowboys, according to the sources, believe the deal that free agent running back Michael Turner signed with Atlanta in March (six years, $34.5 million with $15 million in guarantees) is close to what Barber is worth. Dallas is also willing to give Barber a contract close to what Baltimore gave Willis McGahee last year, a seven-year deal worth as much as $40.12 million, if the last two years of it are picked up. ...

 

Throw Portis contract out of this equation - and 8 year contract to a RB with his time in the league is most probably heavily backloaded to make it look large for ego purposes but is just a tool to spread the signing bonus across a large number of years (though I didn't research that & don't know it for a fact).

 

So Barber wants LT/LJ money, and DAL wants to pay him Turner/McGahee money? There's a very wide chasm beteen those two plateaus. If Barber is intent on playing hardball - and with Antichrist agent Drew Rosenhaus on board (remember what he did for Javon Walker in GB?) - I'm now am actually expecting a move that sends Barber packing with the 2 late first rounders for a pick in the top 3 on Saturday.

 

Keep your ears open...

 

Dallas had visits from Mendenhall, Stewart, Jones and Charles. McFadden was'nt invited. Don't you think if they had any inkling that this trade would take place they would have at least invited him to town for a visit?

Not a snowball's chance in hell this trade happens IMO.

[MikesVikes]

I think that the Cowboys should trade 5 players and 6 draft picks for McFadden, but that's just me.

[T_bone65]

I think that the Cowboys should trade 5 players and 6 draft picks for McFadden, but that's just me.

 

[Bronco Billy]

But that contract is still broken one way or another.

 

How can the contract be broken by cutting the player if the contract specifically addresses the team's ability to do this within the confines of the CBA? There is a hugh difference - and one that you apparently don't understand or don't want to understand - between terminating a contract as allowed for within the contract that is agreed upon by all parties; and unilateral failure to perform as designated by the contract.

[Bronco Billy]

Don't you think if they had any inkling that this trade would take place they would have at least invited him to town for a visit?

 

I think Jerrah understands exactly what the implications would have been if he had invited McFadden for a visit. At a very minimum he would have lost some leverage. The game is all about smokescreens right now.

 

 

Not a snowball's chance in hell this trade happens IMO.

 

You could very well be right. Something tells me Jerrah isn't sleeping very well these days, though.

[Menudo]

I seem to have a higher opinion about Barber than most. I don't think you can make the assumption that he can't handle the full load based upon the 2nd half of one game. He needs to be given the opportunity for several more games before that declaration can be made. All I know is that I hate the Cowboys, and when I see Barber run for them, I'm jealous that he plays for them. If the Cowboys don't appreciate his style and talent, I know one team where he would fit in perfectly to their historically physical running game.......

[piratesownninjas]

Don't you think if they had any inkling that this trade would take place they would have at least invited him to town for a visit?

Not a snowball's chance in hell this trade happens IMO.

Jay Cutler.

[HowboutthemCowboys]

Cowboys owner and general manager Jerry Jones gave a long pause, followed by a sigh - audible proof of his reticence to take on a top-10 rookie contract.

 

But when asked whether he'd consider trading up that high to select a player he covets - not Darren McFadden specifically, though that speculation is well-documented - Jones said, "I don't want to totally dismiss it . . .There are some conditions if it hit just right, the perfect storm and weigh a little bit of risk with it. If the rewards are good enough there, I could envision a situation where it's a possibility."

 

But Jones also said he'd be quite comfortable staying put at Nos. 22 and 28, where the salary cap hits are much friendlier and the Cowboys can still land two starting-quality players.

 

"It might be a little easier to run up there (to the top 10)," Jones said. "But where we are in this particular draft are good spots if we just stay right there because of the value, the hit on the cap and the fact that you can get probably about as good a player right there as you can even five or six spots up or 10 back

 

 

cowboys.com today

[Swiss Cheezhead]

This has nothing to do with spending money, but overpaying 1 player who may prove to be the next Robert Gallery, when Miami wants to draft Gholston or Chris Long, not Jake Long. The Jake Long is a smokescreen imo to get KC to flinch and move up. Miami gets one of the players they covet, and extra picks to move down, while KC gets the player they think they need most.

 

BTW, You are right about one thing, the deal wont get done, but it has nothing to do with Miami not doing it, but instead Jerry Jones not doing it. You obviously dont know the history of Parcells and Ireland in Dallas. It was rumored here that Jerry Jones wouldnt ask for compensation for Ireland leaving before the NFL draft, because of a rumored handshake deal for the #1 pick involving Barber and 2 1s. But the public got wind of this, and the media and fans would crucify Jerry for doing it. This has more to do with why it wont get done, not because Jerry doesnt want Mcfadden or this deal.

 

Tough to determine where the hogwash in this post ends and where any iota of truth begins.

Edited April 23, 2008 by Swiss Cheezhead

[JoJoTheWebToedBoy]

Just a couple of thoughts....

 

1. Barber isn't worth LT/LJ money. MAYBE someday, but not today

2. Two #1's and Barber for McFadden, way to much, no matter how good he was in college, it's still a crapshoot.

3. If Barber sits..... it will hurt him more then it will the Cowboys. But I am sure Drew has already convinced Barber it won't, he will point to TO and say see......

 

That said, only Jerry knows what Jerry is going to do Saturday.... I wouldn't put it pass him

[piratesownninjas]

Does the completion of the trade for Pacman Jones, along with Goodell's positive comments on him take care of the need to draft a corner early?

If so, does this paired with MB3's recent trade demands make it any more likely that MB3 and a 1st rounder could be on the move in order to get McFadden?

[Grits and Shins]

Does the completion of the trade for Pacman Jones, along with Goodell's positive comments on him take care of the need to draft a corner early?

If so, does this paired with MB3's recent trade demands make it any more likely that MB3 and a 1st rounder could be on the move in order to get McFadden?

 

No.

 

JJ doesn't want to pay top 10 money to anybody ... he is a bargain basement shopper unless talent is proven (TO, Romo, etc).

[HowboutthemCowboys]

does this paired with MB3's recent trade demands

link?

[Chief Dick]

I could see the Chiefs trading down with Dallas now so Dallas can grab McFaddin if he is there at 5.

[loyalboyd]

I could see the Chiefs trading down with Dallas now so Dallas can grab McFaddin if he is there at 5.

 

I would love to see that happen for the Chiefs. They need so many players its not even funny. And with 3 number 1's they could be on the up and coming a lot quicker with that trade. To be respectable.