SheikYerbuti Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 Wait a minute. . . .Seattle has a football team??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 Some people can't be taught. If you were to ever watch some football, you would have seen both Julius Jones and TJ Duckett play by now. It is absolutely impossible to watch the two of them play and come to the conclusion that Duckett is the better football player. Duckett is slower to the hole than Alexander was. Again, who cares about your freakin' numbers. Watch football. It isn't that difficult, papi. Okay, I want to clarify your position: So even though Jones has averaged 3.9 ypc in his career behind a superior DAL O-line, and that Duckett has averaged 4.0 ypc in his career - and a lot of his carries have been as a short yardage RB where the line is stacked against the run - behind predominantly crappy ATL and DET O-lines, that Jones has shown any intelligent football fan that he is a substantially better RB than Duckett. Is that an accurate depiction of your position? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hat Trick Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 Predicting JJ to be the next coming in Seattle is like me predicting the Chiefs to win the AFC West this year, sure its possible, but only a homer would even think it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS Miscreant Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 Predicting JJ to be the next coming in Seattle is like me predicting the Chiefs to win the AFC West this year, sure its possible, but only a homer would even think it. This is a prime example of the thing I like least about forum discussions. Without a great deal of explanation, I'll simply say this... nobody in this thread said anything remotely resembling "Predicting JJ to be the next coming in Seattle". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godtomsatan Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 What opportunity is that? Another RBBC? Frankly, yeah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godtomsatan Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 Predicting JJ to be the next coming in Seattle is like me predicting the Chiefs to win the AFC West this year, sure its possible, but only a homer would even think it. I think the nature of the discussion is whether or not Jones is going be the main carrier or whether it's an RBBC with Morris/Duckett (or Weaver). Further, some (homers, perhaps) have suggested that Jones is going to be a good fit in the Seattle system and I believe the exact phrase bandied about was "tier 2". Hardly the next coming, however, that probably more than exceeds what anyone expects out of him. And the Chiefs aren't going to win the AFC West. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS Miscreant Posted July 29, 2008 Share Posted July 29, 2008 I think the nature of the discussion is whether or not Jones is going be the main carrier or whether it's an RBBC with Morris/Duckett (or Weaver). Further, some (homers, perhaps) have suggested that Jones is going to be a good fit in the Seattle system and I believe the exact phrase bandied about was "tier 2". Hardly the next coming, however, that probably more than exceeds what anyone expects out of him. And the Chiefs aren't going to win the AFC West. Thanks. You put that much more eloquently than I did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTSuper7 Posted July 29, 2008 Share Posted July 29, 2008 Seahawks21 - Your logic regarding why Julius Jones is better than T.J. Duckett is flawed. Your only evidence supporting that claim is that JJ hits the hole faster. Since when is that the one and only trait of a successful RB in the NFL? What about field vision? Shaking tackles? I wonder what your opinion is on Jeff George... He's got one hell of an arm, you know! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hat Trick Posted July 29, 2008 Share Posted July 29, 2008 And the Chiefs aren't going to win the AFC West. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted July 29, 2008 Share Posted July 29, 2008 And the Chiefs aren't going to win the AFC West. Water is wet. The Pope is Catholic. Bears take dumps in the woods. This is the "post overwhelmingly obvious facts" thread, isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted July 29, 2008 Share Posted July 29, 2008 you cannot use the word stud and Julius Jones in the same sentence. JJ won't last.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawks21 Posted July 29, 2008 Share Posted July 29, 2008 Seahawks21 - Your logic regarding why Julius Jones is better than T.J. Duckett is flawed. Your only evidence supporting that claim is that JJ hits the hole faster. Since when is that the one and only trait of a successful RB in the NFL? What about field vision? Shaking tackles? I wonder what your opinion is on Jeff George... He's got one hell of an arm, you know! Seriously? You're coming at me with the Jeff George comparison?? Really? Disappointing. In this offense, as well as most offenses in the NFL, the most important thing a RB has to do is get up in the hole. Without being able to do so, all of the vision and "tackle shaking" in the world is going to be absolutely worthless to said RB and his team. TJ Duckett can not get his slow butt up in the hole consistently. This offense, even more so than probably any other, features the quick-hitter, as opposed to draws and counters ran by a lot of the pure zone scheme teams. If you can't get your butt in the hole in this offense, you will become the Shaun Alexander of the past few years. However, Jones' biggest strenght is hitting the hole quickly. After that, he has a hard time with vision and "tackle shaking". In this offense, more so than any other, he has the ability have success without possessing those traits. At the same time, Duckett will not have success here, because the one trait you need in this offense, he does not possess. Furthermore, TJ Duckett simply doesn't have a lot of talent. I was watching some tape of him even in '05 a few weeks ago. When the defense knows he is going to run, he can never find a way to get his wheels started. When he gets a huge hole, he looks fine. Once he gets his steam up, he's nimble for his size and consistently falls forward. THe problem is that this is the NFL and you need to be able to get yards without big holes. He is a suffecient 3rd RB in case of disaster, but that is about it. I have never been quoted as saying that I think Julius Jones is particularly talented. All I"m saying is that the Seahawks offense is a lot better fit for his style than the Cowboys power game, and I expect him to surprise a lot of people because of it. I don't know how much stock to put into training camp, but my "source" with the Seahawks says Jones looks really explosive both running the ball and catching out of the backfield. My guess is that once he gets comfortable with the scheme, Mo's plays will be significantly lessened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westvirginia Posted July 29, 2008 Share Posted July 29, 2008 Seriously? You're coming at me with the Jeff George comparison?? Really? Disappointing. In this offense, as well as most offenses in the NFL, the most important thing a RB has to do is get up in the hole. Without being able to do so, all of the vision and "tackle shaking" in the world is going to be absolutely worthless to said RB and his team. TJ Duckett can not get his slow butt up in the hole consistently. This offense, even more so than probably any other, features the quick-hitter, as opposed to draws and counters ran by a lot of the pure zone scheme teams. If you can't get your butt in the hole in this offense, you will become the Shaun Alexander of the past few years. However, Jones' biggest strenght is hitting the hole quickly. After that, he has a hard time with vision and "tackle shaking". In this offense, more so than any other, he has the ability have success without possessing those traits. At the same time, Duckett will not have success here, because the one trait you need in this offense, he does not possess. Furthermore, TJ Duckett simply doesn't have a lot of talent. I was watching some tape of him even in '05 a few weeks ago. When the defense knows he is going to run, he can never find a way to get his wheels started. When he gets a huge hole, he looks fine. Once he gets his steam up, he's nimble for his size and consistently falls forward. THe problem is that this is the NFL and you need to be able to get yards without big holes. He is a suffecient 3rd RB in case of disaster, but that is about it. I have never been quoted as saying that I think Julius Jones is particularly talented. All I"m saying is that the Seahawks offense is a lot better fit for his style than the Cowboys power game, and I expect him to surprise a lot of people because of it. I don't know how much stock to put into training camp, but my "source" with the Seahawks says Jones looks really explosive both running the ball and catching out of the backfield. My guess is that once he gets comfortable with the scheme, Mo's plays will be significantly lessened. I, for one, have thought JJ's problem was impatience. That he knows the hole is supposed to be between C and LG, and he is in too big of a hurry to grab the ball and boom straight at his spot. MBIII, comparatively, has mucho patience in waiting for his blocking. I'm just using this comparison because they've been together the last three years. Duckett actually is more patient than JJ, according to my viewing of both players. I thought he did really well in the ZB scheme Atlanta used, but BOTH players need the holes open before they can make anything of it. I don't think either one will create much on his own. I'm really worried about Jones intelligence if he can't get the "patience" thing after a couple years under Parcells. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawks21 Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 I, for one, have thought JJ's problem was impatience. That he knows the hole is supposed to be between C and LG, and he is in too big of a hurry to grab the ball and boom straight at his spot. MBIII, comparatively, has mucho patience in waiting for his blocking. I'm just using this comparison because they've been together the last three years. Duckett actually is more patient than JJ, according to my viewing of both players. I thought he did really well in the ZB scheme Atlanta used, but BOTH players need the holes open before they can make anything of it. I don't think either one will create much on his own. I'm really worried about Jones intelligence if he can't get the "patience" thing after a couple years under Parcells. That was exactly my point! His impatience could actually benefit him in the Seattle offense. Because the defense spends so much time in the nickel against the Seahawks, there are opportunities for the backs to get to the safeties. In order for this to happen, the back needs to get up in the hole before the linebackers can cut him off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 Mo Morris is no Marion Barber and will not be able to steal a large number of carries from Julius. For most teams, I would not predict great success for Julius, but I think he fits in absolutely perfectly with the Seahawks quick-hitting running scheme. Julius hits the hole quickly, which is EXACTLY the type of player that should have success in this offense. And Marion Barber is no feature back...he has no outside speed and showed no energy in the Giants playoff game last year (his only true start). Julius Jones tiptoes at the line and is the opposite of Barber. Anyone in Dallas would have stolen those carries from TippyToes Jones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowboutthemCowboys Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 Julius hits the hole quickly, which is EXACTLY the type of player that should have success in this offense. Ummm, no he does'nt. He runs into an offensive lineman or two then falls down. Morris is gonna play some and so is Duckett. JJ has no FF value whatsoever. I would'nt take him in the last round of a draft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darin3 Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 Ummm, no he does'nt. He runs into an offensive lineman or two then falls down. Morris is gonna play some and so is Duckett. JJ has no FF value whatsoever. I would'nt take him in the last round of a draft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowboutthemCowboys Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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