Perchoutofwater Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 An armed uprising against better weapons and training? If they did it would probably be bloodier.That is probaby what the government would like. The motorcycle militia have over a million members and probably more powerful weapons. Then there are the police and army plus the Republican Guard. Guns didn't help the Iraqis when Saddam was in power. I think they're trying a Martin Luther King/Ghandi civil disobedience campaign. They are making the government look pretty brutal and that won't help their economy or the leaders in the future. I'm not saying there should be an armed rebellion, I was just asking a question. I also haven't seen anything that definitively states what Iraq's policy towards gun control was prior to Saddam getting the boot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 It's happened numerous times successfully, even in the 20th century. One example being Afghanistan in the '80s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yo mama Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 I'm not saying there should be an armed rebellion, I was just asking a question. I also haven't seen anything that definitively states what Iraq's policy towards gun control was prior to Saddam getting the boot. I'd assume gun control, like all things in Iran, would be very restrictive. FWIW, it is my understanding that there was virtually zero gun control in Iraq during Saddam's rule and that didn't seem to do the people a damn bit of good. Iraqis had AKs like the French have BO. It wasn't the inability to arm themselves that was the problem; it was that any attempt to organize or speak out against Saddam was brutally crushed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H8tank Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 I just don't think it is as simple or black and white as it is sometimes portrayed. It is for them. DUBAI (Reuters) - If it were in a position to do so, Al Qaeda would use Pakistan's nuclear weapons in its fight against the United States, a top leader of the group said in remarks aired Sunday. http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idU...eedName=topNews I am not advocating nuking anyone at this time... however the refusal to allow intercepting foreign calls and gitmo show they are not in it to win it. They simply want to bag the bodies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 Iran Charging Bullet Fee A family in Iran whose son was caught and killed in the protests' crossfire Saturday was asked to pay the equivalent of $3,000 for the bullet used by security forces, The Wall Street Journal reports. 19-year-old Kaveh Alipour, who was engaged to marry his fiancé next week, was leaving an acting class when he was shot in the head at an intersection in downtown Tehran. Alipour’s father reportedly told police all of his possessions wouldn’t amount to $3,000. The morgue agreed to waive the fee but ordered that Alipour not be buried in the city of Tehran as retribution. He is one of dozens killed in the violent protests in the last week. Read it at The Wall Street Journal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big John Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 Iran Charging Bullet Fee A family in Iran whose son was caught and killed in the protests' crossfire Saturday was asked to pay the equivalent of $3,000 for the bullet used by security forces, The Wall Street Journal reports. 19-year-old Kaveh Alipour, who was engaged to marry his fiancé next week, was leaving an acting class when he was shot in the head at an intersection in downtown Tehran. Alipour’s father reportedly told police all of his possessions wouldn’t amount to $3,000. The morgue agreed to waive the fee but ordered that Alipour not be buried in the city of Tehran as retribution. He is one of dozens killed in the violent protests in the last week. Read it at The Wall Street Journal China has a similar policy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 A Closer Look at Mousavi The writer of a Newsweek article profiling Iran's opposition presidential candidate has been detained without charge by Iranian authorities. Maziar Bahari’s article, entitled “Anyone but Ahmadinejad,” was published last month and contains rare personal details about Mir Hossein Mousavi. The leader was the prime minister after the Iranian Revolution, and clashed with current Supreme Leader Khamenei over Mousavi's more leftist views. But Khamenei visited the candidate's ailing father in May, which was seen as a sign he was willing to support a Mousavi victory. When a new regime abolished Mousavi's prime minister position in 1989, he returned to a private life of creating abstract art, his major passion, and completely dropped out of politics. Mousavi refers to himself as a “reformist principalist,” an ambiguous term in both English and Farsi. Bahari argued that at 68, Mousavi may not have the ability to modernize the Iranian government to the liking of voters, dubbed “logical principalists.” “‘I'm sure those young people in Milad Hall who were chanting idealistic slogans know in their heart of hearts that those ideals are not realizable at the moment,’” said Mohammad Khatami, President Ahmadinejad’s predecessor. Khatami was "furious" when Mousavi decided to run, and rescinded his candidacy. Bahari has not been heard from since he was arrested on Sunday. Read it at Newsweek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaP'N GRuNGe Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 Obama statement on Iran: First, I’d like to say a few words about the situation in Iran. The United States and the international community have been appalled and outraged by the threats, beatings, and imprisonments of the last few days. I strongly condemn these unjust actions, and I join with the American people in mourning each and every innocent life that is lost. I have made it clear that the United States respects the sovereignty of the Islamic Republic of Iran, and is not at all interfering in Iran’s affairs. But we must also bear witness to the courage and dignity of the Iranian people, and to a remarkable opening within Iranian society. And we deplore violence against innocent civilians anywhere that it takes place. The Iranian people are trying to have a debate about their future. Some in the Iranian government are trying to avoid that debate by accusing the United States and others outside of Iran of instigating protests over the elections. These accusations are patently false and absurd. They are an obvious attempt to distract people from what is truly taking place within Iran’s borders. This tired strategy of using old tensions to scapegoat other countries won’t work anymore in Iran. This is not about the United States and the West; this is about the people of Iran, and the future that they – and only they – will choose. The Iranian people can speak for themselves. That is precisely what has happened these last few days. In 2009, no iron fist is strong enough to shut off the world from bearing witness to the peaceful pursuit of justice. Despite the Iranian government’s efforts to expel journalists and isolate itself, powerful images and poignant words have made their way to us through cell phones and computers, and so we have watched what the Iranian people are doing. This is what we have witnessed. We have seen the timeless dignity of tens of thousands Iranians marching in silence. We have seen people of all ages risk everything to insist that their votes are counted and their voices heard. Above all, we have seen courageous women stand up to brutality and threats, and we have experienced the searing image of a woman bleeding to death on the streets. While this loss is raw and painful, we also know this: those who stand up for justice are always on the right side of history. As I said in Cairo, suppressing ideas never succeeds in making them go away. The Iranian people have a universal right to assembly and free speech. If the Iranian government seeks the respect of the international community, it must respect those rights, and heed the will of its own people. It must govern through consent, not coercion. That is what Iran’s own people are calling for, and the Iranian people will ultimately judge the actions of their own government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westvirginia Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 Obama statement on Iran: First, I'd like to say a few words about the situation in Iran. The United States and the international community have been appalled and outraged by the threats, beatings, and imprisonments of the last few days. I strongly condemn these unjust actions, and I join with the American people in mourning each and every innocent life that is lost. I have made it clear that the United States respects the sovereignty of the Islamic Republic of Iran, and is not at all interfering in Iran's affairs. But we must also bear witness to the courage and dignity of the Iranian people, and to a remarkable opening within Iranian society. And we deplore violence against innocent civilians anywhere that it takes place. The Iranian people are trying to have a debate about their future. Some in the Iranian government are trying to avoid that debate by accusing the United States and others outside of Iran of instigating protests over the elections. These accusations are patently false and absurd. They are an obvious attempt to distract people from what is truly taking place within Iran's borders. This tired strategy of using old tensions to scapegoat other countries won't work anymore in Iran. This is not about the United States and the West; this is about the people of Iran, and the future that they – and only they – will choose. The Iranian people can speak for themselves. That is precisely what has happened these last few days. In 2009, no iron fist is strong enough to shut off the world from bearing witness to the peaceful pursuit of justice. Despite the Iranian government's efforts to expel journalists and isolate itself, powerful images and poignant words have made their way to us through cell phones and computers, and so we have watched what the Iranian people are doing. This is what we have witnessed. We have seen the timeless dignity of tens of thousands Iranians marching in silence. We have seen people of all ages risk everything to insist that their votes are counted and their voices heard. Above all, we have seen courageous women stand up to brutality and threats, and we have experienced the searing image of a woman bleeding to death on the streets. While this loss is raw and painful, we also know this: those who stand up for justice are always on the right side of history. As I said in Cairo, suppressing ideas never succeeds in making them go away. The Iranian people have a universal right to assembly and free speech. If the Iranian government seeks the respect of the international community, it must respect those rights, and heed the will of its own people. It must govern through consent, not coercion. That is what Iran's own people are calling for, and the Iranian people will ultimately judge the actions of their own government. That is actually a great speech. It even mentioned the rights of man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 That is actually a great speech. It even mentioned the rights of man. Will the person who has accessed westvirginia's account please cease and desist? Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 Obama statement on Iran: First, I’d like to say a few words about the situation in Iran. The United States and the international community have been appalled and outraged by the threats, beatings, and imprisonments of the last few days. I strongly condemn these unjust actions, and I join with the American people in mourning each and every innocent life that is lost. I have made it clear that the United States respects the sovereignty of the Islamic Republic of Iran, and is not at all interfering in Iran’s affairs. But we must also bear witness to the courage and dignity of the Iranian people, and to a remarkable opening within Iranian society. And we deplore violence against innocent civilians anywhere that it takes place. The Iranian people are trying to have a debate about their future. Some in the Iranian government are trying to avoid that debate by accusing the United States and others outside of Iran of instigating protests over the elections. These accusations are patently false and absurd. They are an obvious attempt to distract people from what is truly taking place within Iran’s borders. This tired strategy of using old tensions to scapegoat other countries won’t work anymore in Iran. This is not about the United States and the West; this is about the people of Iran, and the future that they – and only they – will choose. The Iranian people can speak for themselves. That is precisely what has happened these last few days. In 2009, no iron fist is strong enough to shut off the world from bearing witness to the peaceful pursuit of justice. Despite the Iranian government’s efforts to expel journalists and isolate itself, powerful images and poignant words have made their way to us through cell phones and computers, and so we have watched what the Iranian people are doing. This is what we have witnessed. We have seen the timeless dignity of tens of thousands Iranians marching in silence. We have seen people of all ages risk everything to insist that their votes are counted and their voices heard. Above all, we have seen courageous women stand up to brutality and threats, and we have experienced the searing image of a woman bleeding to death on the streets. While this loss is raw and painful, we also know this: those who stand up for justice are always on the right side of history. As I said in Cairo, suppressing ideas never succeeds in making them go away. The Iranian people have a universal right to assembly and free speech. If the Iranian government seeks the respect of the international community, it must respect those rights, and heed the will of its own people. It must govern through consent, not coercion. That is what Iran’s own people are calling for, and the Iranian people will ultimately judge the actions of their own government. that's about the right note to strike, I think. my only gripes would be, 1) it's coming a little late, so that it's more like a "OK, I have to say something about this now" gesture than anything else; and 2) he should have specifically mentioned something about the reported "irregularities" in the election, about the threats sham elections pose to democratic governance, etc. the events taking place are about a lot MORE than just the regime's heavy-handed crackdown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaP'N GRuNGe Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 (edited) that's about the right note to strike, I think. my only gripes would be, 1) it's coming a little late, so that it's more like a "OK, I have to say something about this now" gesture than anything else; and 2) he should have specifically mentioned something about the reported "irregularities" in the election, about the threats sham elections pose to democratic governance, etc. the events taking place are about a lot MORE than just the regime's heavy-handed crackdown. 1) I agree...he should have came out sooner. 2) I don't know if coming out and saying elections are a sham wouldn't exactly undermine what he was saying in that the unrest in Iran is homegrown and not some western attempt to influence local power. Edited June 23, 2009 by CaP'N GRuNGe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 2) I don't know if coming out and saying elections are a sham wouldn't exactly undermine what he was saying in that the unrest in Iran is homegrown and not some western attempt to influence local power. I think obama is capable of speaking a little more artfully than, "your elections are a sham." he could take some more cues here from the french president. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 In what appeared to be a coordinated exchange, President Obama called on the Huffington Post's Nico Pitney near the start of his press conference and requested a question directly about Iran. “Nico, I know you and all across the Internet, we've been seeing a lot of reports coming out of Iran,” Obama said, addressing Pitney. “I know there may actually be questions from people in Iran who are communicating through the Internet. Do you have a question?” Pitney, as if ignoring what Obama had just said, said: “I wanted to use this opportunity to ask you a question directly from an Iranian.” good grief. may as well just start having the teleprompter ask the questions but I did just see an AP article indicating that he did question the legitimacy of the election results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaP'N GRuNGe Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 good grief. may as well just start having the teleprompter ask the questions but I did just see an AP article indicating that he did question the legitimacy of the election results. http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/j...-pecking-order/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westvirginia Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 Will the person who has accessed westvirginia's account please cease and desist? Thank you. Because I think he's a statist doesn't mean I won't give him his due when he gets it right. Az is right on both his counts, but my first impression was that it was eloquent and said most of what needed said. I think the second point is debatable though, since it's self-evident the elections were a sham from all the protests and news. It's like someone else said, the challenger would be no friend to us. And as bad as the Iranian gov't is we can't really get involved at this point. No use to waste political or human capital on a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" outcome. FWIW, I think this mess has been handled about right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/j...-pecking-order/ actually, I saw the link on politico Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polksalet Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 DMD, The world NEVER changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pope Flick Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 http://twitter.com/enricolabriola This is one of the Iranian twitter feeds they supposedly can still access. There are two reports saying al-aribiya states Khameni might have been deopsed by rafsanjani but any announcement has been delayed. Could be pure rumor mongering, and I have no way of knowing what the follow through rate is on ANY of the postings here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H8tank Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 The United States said Monday its invitations were still standing for Iranian diplomats to attend July 4 celebrations at US embassies despite the crackdown on opposition supporters. President Barack Obama's administration said earlier this month it would invite Iran to US embassy barbecues for the national holiday for the first time since the two nations severed relations following the 1979 Islamic revolution. "There's no thought to rescinding the invitations to Iranian diplomats," State Department spokesman Ian Kelly told reporters. "We have made a strategic decision to engage on a number of fronts with Iran," Kelly said. "We tried many years of isolation, and we're pursuing a different path now." Birds of a feather... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westvirginia Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 Birds of a feather... I really don't see the problem here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtomicCEO Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 good grief. may as well just start having the teleprompter ask the questions Or maybe hire a gay prostitute to carry a fake press pass and ask scripted questions. That would be ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmarc117 Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 Or maybe hire a gay prostitute to carry a fake press pass and ask scripted questions. That would be ridiculous. no kidding In what appeared to be a coordinated exchange, President Obama called on the Huffington Post's Nico Pitney near the start of his press conference and requested a question directly about Iran. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaP'N GRuNGe Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 no kidding This is the exact same thing as Jeff Gannon and the Talon News Agency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H8tank Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 I really don't see the problem here? Giving them a forum gives the m00luhs legitimacy. Course, dumocrats love them some dictators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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