DMD Posted June 21, 2009 Share Posted June 21, 2009 It is fascinating to me to see Iran apparently teetering on a civil war and odd to feel sympathy towards the Iranian people. But what is earth-shattering to me is that we are witnessing history and a fundamental change in the world. No longer can a government shut down all sources of media from the world. Iran tried - Twitter has become the main source of info, along with other internet resouces. From the start of time up until about now, dictators could silence their country and have absolute control. That is no longer possible. I know that Iran shut down or slowed down access to the internet, barred all foreign correspondents and controlled their radio and TV. But they cannot stop guys recording video from their cell phones and mailing it out of the country. It's a change in the world for the good. And a fundamental change in how governments can expect to get away with things. There is a video on youtube of a young woman who was shot in the chest and you litterally watch her die - eyes roll back in the head and then blood streams from her mouth and nose because they are holding their hands over her chest wound. Just cannot get that picture out of my head and I will not link to it because it is so disturbing to me. The world is changing and it isn't pretty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Posted June 21, 2009 Share Posted June 21, 2009 (edited) I see a difference between the people and the government. About 70% are young and don't remember the revolution or the Iran/Iraq war. I've been watching too. Obama has been right in being cautious in what he says. In 1983 10 Bahai sunday school teachers were arrested because they believed in the wrong religion. President Reagan spoke up about it and we became the target. The 10 were hanged when they wouldn't go back to Islam. It can be a brutal country. I hope they take control of their country and become a real democracy. In Iran all the candidates have to be approved before they can run. None are true reformers, but the people could demand change. EDIT I forgot that in 89 George HW Bush was very careful in what he said regarding Eastern Europe. You don't want to allow the Ayatollah's to say the protesters are doing what America wants. That would result in a crackdown. These people are very nationalistic and need to solve their own problems. Everyone knows we are on the side of the protesters. Shouting it is just scoring political points. I decided to move my other post to keep this about Iran and the protests. Edited June 21, 2009 by Randall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebellab Posted June 21, 2009 Share Posted June 21, 2009 Some friends and I were talking last weekend, and you are spot on Randall. If the country comes out for a record turn out vote, and 40% of them want reform, that is more than ever before. No matter what the supreme leader says, when that many people want "reform" they will continue to strive for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big John Posted June 21, 2009 Share Posted June 21, 2009 I am surprised that this is getting through in Iran, yet is still completely blocked out in North Korea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Posted June 21, 2009 Share Posted June 21, 2009 I am surprised that this is getting through in Iran, yet is still completely blocked out in North Korea. There are a lot of educated young in Iran that probably know how to get around the controls. It would be nice if he same was true in Darfur and North Korea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
untateve Posted June 21, 2009 Share Posted June 21, 2009 And following from my previous discussion with Sky: The Iranian leadership may be an evil regime, but after watching these protests and realizing that many/most want the same basic freedoms we have, how does anyone advocate killing all of these people with nuclear strikes? I just don't think it is as simple or black and white as it is sometimes portrayed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Posted June 21, 2009 Share Posted June 21, 2009 This is interesting (from the Wa Post) Also Sunday, state-run news media reported the arrest of the eldest daughter and four other relatives of former president Ali Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani, a Athenae Muslim cleric who heads two powerful groups in Iran's theocratic governing system. Rafsanjani has emerged as a strong critic of Ahmadinejad. The whereabouts of Rafsanjani himself were unknown. Members of the pro-government Basij militia is asking for his daughter, Faezeh, who used to run a magazine promoting women's rights and who has supported Mousavi, and other members of the family to be put on trial for corruption. Mousavi made no public appearances Sunday and there were growing fears among his supporters that he could be arrested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted June 21, 2009 Share Posted June 21, 2009 There are a lot of educated young in Iran that probably know how to get around the controls. It would be nice if he same was true in Darfur and North Korea. Koreans are a big force in PC gaming, so I'm sure they can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackshi17 Posted June 21, 2009 Share Posted June 21, 2009 Is it really that difficult to understand that people who are the best in the world at certain PC games would be able to get a computer past firewalls/blocked ports? You do understand there are two Koreas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted June 21, 2009 Share Posted June 21, 2009 You do understand there are two Koreas? is it sort of like how there are two Carolina's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbimm Posted June 21, 2009 Share Posted June 21, 2009 It is fascinating to me to see Iran apparently teetering on a civil war and odd to feel sympathy towards the Iranian people. But what is earth-shattering to me is that we are witnessing history and a fundamental change in the world. No longer can a government shut down all sources of media from the world. Iran tried - Twitter has become the main source of info, along with other internet resouces. From the start of time up until about now, dictators could silence their country and have absolute control. That is no longer possible. I know that Iran shut down or slowed down access to the internet, barred all foreign correspondents and controlled their radio and TV. But they cannot stop guys recording video from their cell phones and mailing it out of the country. It's a change in the world for the good. And a fundamental change in how governments can expect to get away with things. There is a video on youtube of a young woman who was shot in the chest and you litterally watch her die - eyes roll back in the head and then blood streams from her mouth and nose because they are holding their hands over her chest wound. Just cannot get that picture out of my head and I will not link to it because it is so disturbing to me. The world is changing and it isn't pretty. They have now shown that video unedited on CNN. I agree it is disturbing! Neda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtomicCEO Posted June 21, 2009 Share Posted June 21, 2009 is it sort of like how there are two Carolina's? Yes, only more intense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted June 21, 2009 Share Posted June 21, 2009 You do understand there are two Koreas? yes, but if you are from either you are called Korean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Posted June 21, 2009 Share Posted June 21, 2009 yes, but if you are from either you are called Korean. How good are North Koreans at video games? Neda on Wikipedia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbimm Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 Neda on Wikipedia And to think just 2 days ago she was alive and nobody special in our eyes. I hope this all works out for the best for the young people over there who really believe that change is good for them and the rest of the world! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pope Flick Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 I'm worried about the traceability of all of these uploads, should the hard-liners crack down. It might seem like the equivalent of putting a flyer on a post and walking away, but you can bet that each upload has a trail and the authorities will be able to trace much of it should they choose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbimm Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 I'm worried about the traceability of all of these uploads, should the hard-liners crack down. It might seem like the equivalent of putting a flyer on a post and walking away, but you can bet that each upload has a trail and the authorities will be able to trace much of it should they choose. The people, mostly younger, have more guts than many of us have ever been forced to have. It seems to me that they are going to do whatever they can to get the word out to the rest of the world. I wonder how long they will be able to keep it up. I am guessing the providers will quickly be shut down and word will slowly trickle out from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 The people, mostly younger, have more guts than many of us have ever been forced to have. It seems to me that they are going to do whatever they can to get the word out to the rest of the world. I wonder how long they will be able to keep it up. I am guessing the providers will quickly be shut down and word will slowly trickle out from there. Many on twitter outide Iran are saying they are from Tehran and CNN aren't using user names so that could help. These guys are gunning protesters down from rooftops and breaking into houses at night to arrest leaders. It may not help but these guys are showing the world what cowards they are. Hopefully decent Iranians will fight back. This Ayatollah is a man of God? What a joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMD Posted June 22, 2009 Author Share Posted June 22, 2009 Wow... Iran's election authority has rejected claims of voting irregularities by a defeated presidential candidate, while acknowledging that the number of ballots cast in dozens cities exceeded the number of eligible voters in those areas, state-run TV reported Monday Unbelieveable. I wonder if they actually counted anything there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 Wow... Unbelieveable. I wonder if they actually counted anything there? All the ballots were paper ballots and to count them all in 3 hours was deemed impossible. Groups have analyzed the results and in the home towns of the candidates they got 3-10% of the vote. This election was a sham. Instead of shooting girls from rooftops maybe they could have counted all the votes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 Quoting then (not-yet-Ayatollah) Hojatol-Islam Seyed Ali Khamanei, the current Supreme Leader at a speech in Qom: When illiteracy, poverty, hunger, injustice, and inequality have been uprooted, the Revolution has borne fruit. The Shah’s sin was that he used to say whatever I say [goes], not what the nation says. Today anyone who repeats this behavior, it not acceptable; he is condemnable.” “Once illiteracy, poverty, hunger, oppression and inequality are wiped away from society, the revolution will have been successful.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 It is fascinating to me to see Iran apparently teetering on a civil war and odd to feel sympathy towards the Iranian people. But what is earth-shattering to me is that we are witnessing history and a fundamental change in the world. No longer can a government shut down all sources of media from the world. Iran tried - Twitter has become the main source of info, along with other internet resouces. From the start of time up until about now, dictators could silence their country and have absolute control. That is no longer possible. I know that Iran shut down or slowed down access to the internet, barred all foreign correspondents and controlled their radio and TV. But they cannot stop guys recording video from their cell phones and mailing it out of the country. It's a change in the world for the good. And a fundamental change in how governments can expect to get away with things. There is a video on youtube of a young woman who was shot in the chest and you litterally watch her die - eyes roll back in the head and then blood streams from her mouth and nose because they are holding their hands over her chest wound. Just cannot get that picture out of my head and I will not link to it because it is so disturbing to me. The world is changing and it isn't pretty. you know, we actually had a pretty good thread going about this but it seems to have been deleted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perchoutofwater Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 Just out of curiosity, does anyone know if the average Iranian is allowed to own a gun? As the people of Iran protest this obviously fraudulent election, I've noticed protesters throwing rocks at armed security fores, and starting fires. I have not seen any protesters that have guns, nor have I heard of any state officials being shot. I was just wondering if anyone knows if Iran has gun control, and how tight the restrictions are if they do. I find it hard to believe these protesters wouldn't be bringing their arms to bear if they had arms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 Just out of curiosity, does anyone know if the average Iranian is allowed to own a gun? As the people of Iran protest this obviously fraudulent election, I've noticed protesters throwing rocks at armed security fores, and starting fires. I have not seen any protesters that have guns, nor have I heard of any state officials being shot. I was just wondering if anyone knows if Iran has gun control, and how tight the restrictions are if they do. I find it hard to believe these protesters wouldn't be bringing their arms to bear if they had arms. An armed uprising against better weapons and training? If they did it would probably be bloodier.That is probaby what the government would like. The motorcycle militia have over a million members and probably more powerful weapons. Then there are the police and army plus the Republican Guard. Guns didn't help the Iraqis when Saddam was in power. I think they're trying a Martin Luther King/Ghandi civil disobedience campaign. They are making the government look pretty brutal and that won't help their economy or the leaders in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westvirginia Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 An armed uprising against better weapons and training? If they did it would probably be bloodier.That is probaby what the government would like. The motorcycle militia have over a million members and probably more powerful weapons. Then there are the police and army plus the Republican Guard. Guns didn't help the Iraqis when Saddam was in power. I think they're trying a Martin Luther King/Ghandi civil disobedience campaign. They are making the government look pretty brutal and that won't help their economy or the leaders in the future. It's happened numerous times successfully, even in the 20th century. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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