i_am_the_swammi Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 Meh, I think it does both. A 4 mpg improvement is significant when the traded clunker was only getting 10-14, and auto makers can't begin to make new cars without moving inventory. These silly win-win programs have got to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perchoutofwater Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 My biggest problem with the program, aside for the fact that I don't think government should be involved in this kind of crap at all anyway is the wastefulness of it. I can understand how it could stimulate the car companies and possibly parts manufacturers (less likely), but why must the vehicles being traded in be destroyed? It seems like a horrible waste of resources, and will end up punishing the poor who can't afford new transportation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Beatings Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 What do you make of this? “This application provides access to the DOT CARS system. When logged on to the CARS system, your computer is considered a federal computer system and is the property of the United States Government. “Any or all uses of this system and all files on this system may be intercepted, monitored, recorded, copied, audited, inspected, and disclosed to authorized CARS, DoT, and law enforcement personnel, as well as authorized officials of other agencies, both domestic and foreign.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muck Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 The new vehicle must have a manufacturer's suggested retail price of not more than $45,000. That price appears on the window sticker on new vehicles. The new vehicle must also achieve minimum combined fuel economy levels. For passenger automobiles, the new vehicle must have a combined fuel economy value of at least 22 miles per gallon. For category 1 trucks, the new vehicle must have a combined fuel economy value of at least 18 miles per gallon. For category 2 trucks, the new vehicle must have a combined fuel economy value of at least 15 miles per gallon. Category 3 trucks have no minimum fuel economy requirement; however, there are special requirements that apply to the purchase of category 3 vehicles. Anyone know what a "category 1" truck is? What about a "category 2" or "category 3"? Could you trade in a passenger car at 18 mpg and get a category 2 truck at 15mpg? ...etc... PS - One benefit of something like this is that the $$ that was set aside as "stimulus money" actually went to the citizens and was spent quickly. Most of the other stimulus dough is still on the side lines and will have to go through 47 layers of beurocratic hands to get to where it was intended to go in the first place. So, on an absolute basis, I don't really like it much ... but on a comparative basis, it seems to me to be better than much of the other tripe that has been put forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 What do you make of this? probably bogus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Beatings Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 probably bogus I got it in an email from the Kim Komando show. She's not political at all (as far as I know), she does a nationally syndicated radio show on the weekends where they just discuss all things digital (computers, cameras, internet, security, etc.). I trust the source. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 I just went to cars.gov, and tried to sign up, log in whatever. never saw this message or anything like it. the only thing I saw is it lets you sign up for email updates. I signed up my junk yahoo account, clicked the confirm link, just like any other email list, never saw any such message. now if dealers themselves are logging into some sort of govt database system to enter and track this stuff, I don't doubt that they would see some kind of message like that, which is typical of any such government system. however, I don't see any sort of dealer log-in or sign up anywhere on the cars.gov site. this one just seems like a silly thing to get worked up over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiegie Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 The dealers DID receive that warning, but it has subsequently been taken down. Interestingly enough, even though the warning has been taken down, it's not clear if the government might still do what the warning talked about. Apparently the Patriot Act lets them do this sort of stuff. (Or at least that is what the Glenn Beck Show says.) Well, at least we are protecting ourselves from car dealing terrorists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perchoutofwater Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 Anyone know what a "category 1" truck is? What about a "category 2" or "category 3"? Category 1 Truck: * SUVs with a GVWR† of less than 8,500 pounds (Chevrolet Blazer, Ford Explorer, etc.) * Pickups with a GVWR† of less than 8,500 pounds and a wheelbase^ of 115 inches or less (Ford Ranger, Toyota Tacoma, etc.) * Passenger vans and cargo vans with a GVWR† of less than 8,500 pounds and wheelbase^ of 124 inches or less (Dodge Caravan, Honda Odyssey, etc. Category 2 Truck: * Pickups with a GVWR of 8,500 pounds or less and a wheelbase^ greater than 115 inches (Ford F-150, Chevy Silverado, etc.). * Passenger vans and cargo vans with a GVWR of 8,500 pounds or less and a wheelbase^ greater than 124 inches Category 3 Truck: * Very large vans, SUVs and pickup (cargo bed of 72 inches or more) trucks w/ GVWR† 8,500-10,000 pounds (Chevrolet C/K 3500, Ford F-450) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muck Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 Are there any SUVs considered "Catagory 2"? Ford Excursion? Chevy Suburban? Cadillac Escalade? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 Take the behemouths off the road by offering $$$. Good idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A.T.a.M Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 I know this sounds funny but I don't want my poor truck distroyed. My truck qualifys and I have been searching now for another car but the F'en car companies are more greedy right now. Because the money is coming in from the govt the car companies are hardly working with MSRP prices. F that I am all about no more than a couple hundy over invoice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 I know this sounds funny but I don't want my poor truck distroyed. My truck qualifys and I have been searching now for another car but the F'en car companies are more greedy right now. Because the money is coming in from the govt the car companies are hardly working with MSRP prices. F that I am all about no more than a couple hundy over invoice Car dealers around here are cutting MSRP in half and then taking the government money off it. They weren't doing any business before this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perchoutofwater Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 Are there any SUVs considered "Catagory 2"? Ford Excursion? Chevy Suburban? Cadillac Escalade? Pretty much all the full size SUV's fall into this class, with the exception of the Hummer, as it exceeds the GVWR requirement by 100 lbs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muck Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 Pretty much all the full size SUV's fall into this class, with the exception of the Hummer, as it exceeds the GVWR requirement by 100 lbs. Ok, so could someone turn in, say, a 2000 Honda Odessey (which gets pretty decent mileage, I'd expect) and get a Ford Excursion / Chevy Subruban / etc? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 Ok, so could someone turn in, say, a 2000 Honda Odessey (which gets pretty decent mileage, I'd expect) and get a Ford Excursion / Chevy Subruban / etc? don't believe so. I think there are several conditions, all of which must be met: 1) old car must get 18 mpg or less 2) new car must get 22 mpg for a car, and 15, 18, whatever for the different classes of trucks 3) new car must get at least 4 mpg better (for $3500), or 10 mpg better (for $4500) than old car so, maybe a 2000 odyssey qualifies on its end (though my guess is it gets better than 18 mpg, so it wouldn't), and maybe a suburban qualifies for its class or whatever on the new car end, but the suburban still has to get at least 4 mpg better than the odyssey for you to be able to trade in one toward the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perchoutofwater Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 (edited) The administration that promised transparancy is slow playing the release of results data for the cash for clunkers give away. From what little data that has been ferreted out, only 6 of the top 10 cars (I've heard only 1 of the top 5) is "American made". However "American made" cars do lead in one category, all of the top 10 models being turned in as clunkers are "American made". ETA: I wonder if they are going to try to slow play the release of the full report until after the senate votes on round 2. Edited August 5, 2009 by Perchoutofwater Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtomicCEO Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 However "American made" cars do lead in one category, all of the top 10 models being turned in as clunkers are "American made". Well... duh. Gass guzzling? Short life? Yeah... that's an American car alright. That's why I was against Bush's bailout. What crappy product are we going to bail out next? Necco Wafers? Worst candy ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Square Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 Alright, a quick vent on the part of this program "I don't get". Is it really cash for clunkers if I can trade in an SUV for a new one that gets 2mpg better gas mileage and call it "cash for clunkers". If I'm not mistaken I can trade in my wife's 2003 4WD Ford Escape for a brand new Mazda CX-7 (which is referred to as a gas guzler in reviews) but qualify for $3500 because it gets 2 mpg better gas mileage. I think the program might help the economy and the oil dependency issues but I'd like to see people make a little larger strides than that. Maybe if you trade in a 18mpg SUV for a 28mpg vehicle (car or whatever) than you get the help. Wouldn't that make a little more sense? Unless you are commuting to the moon and back (daily) I don't see how that 2mpg is really going to help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perchoutofwater Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 Well... duh. Gass guzzling? Short life? Yeah... that's an American car alright. That's why I was against Bush's bailout. What crappy product are we going to bail out next? Necco Wafers? Worst candy ever. I was right there with you complaining about the bailouts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 Alright, a quick vent on the part of this program "I don't get". Is it really cash for clunkers if I can trade in an SUV for a new one that gets 2mpg better gas mileage and call it "cash for clunkers". If someone does that then they are twice as stupid. 1) for buying a SUV 2) for getting another SUV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muck Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 If someone does that then they are twice as stupid. 1) for buying a SUV 2) for getting another SUV SUVs are great for people with lots of kids. Its the people that have big-ass SUVs and 0-1 kid that don't make much sense to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westvirginia Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 Alright, a quick vent on the part of this program "I don't get". Is it really cash for clunkers if I can trade in an SUV for a new one that gets 2mpg better gas mileage and call it "cash for clunkers". If I'm not mistaken I can trade in my wife's 2003 4WD Ford Escape for a brand new Mazda CX-7 (which is referred to as a gas guzler in reviews) but qualify for $3500 because it gets 2 mpg better gas mileage. I think the program might help the economy and the oil dependency issues but I'd like to see people make a little larger strides than that. Maybe if you trade in a 18mpg SUV for a 28mpg vehicle (car or whatever) than you get the help. Wouldn't that make a little more sense? Unless you are commuting to the moon and back (daily) I don't see how that 2mpg is really going to help. It has to get at least 4mpg better for any money ($3500) and to get the full $4500 it has to get at least 10mpg better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebellab Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 I am assuming you get nothing for trade in, so the $4500 you would get would replace a trade on something that is worth less than that, or more than that for example an old sub or suv is more than likely worth about $5000 so you are losing $500. It removes the car from the used car system as well as the scrap parts system. If I am wrong let me know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Square Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 It has to get at least 4mpg better for any money ($3500) and to get the full $4500 it has to get at least 10mpg better. This article: http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2009/autos/....clunkers_cash/ Shows a chart that says a light truck / SUV gets $3500 for 2 mpg better gas mileage. It has to get 5 mpg better to get the 4500. I think it should be 5mpg to get anything. Let me know if I'm reading that wrong or if that is incorrect. Just seems like I can trade a medium SUV in for basically a new version of the same thing and take $3500 from the government (all without really saving any appreciable amount of gas). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.