cash for clunkers

[dmarc117]

so the usg wants the people to leverage up more to buy new cars? lmao!! how many of these new purchases are going to be repossessed in a year?? good job obama!!!

[tbimm]

so the usg wants the people to leverage up more to buy new cars? lmao!! how many of these new purchases are going to be repossessed in a year?? good job obama!!!

Considering the lending practices are ever changing my guess is not as many as in the recent past.

[The Irish Doggy]

Every indication I've seen says its harder to get a loan as banks are more cautious than ever.

 

Surely some will be repossessed, of course, but I agree with tbimm that the rate will most likely be less than recent history might suggest.

[Perchoutofwater]

The cash for clunkers campaign really doesn't make much sense to me. For the most part it only helps those that are fairly well off. Those with enough liquidity to take advantage of this program really don't need it. It will give the car companies a temporary shot in the arm, because of the boost in car sales, but they are getting sales now and losing sales a year from now because of it. So, it will temporarily prop up the car companies, but the people who would have waited until next year to get a new car that can afford to are getting then now, so next year sales will be down because of it. The stupidity of what they are doing with the "clunkers" being traded in is shocking. I didn't realize until a few days ago, they are just crushing them. So what if they are still in good working order, and would have been a great first car for a 16 year old kid or someone who couldn't afford a new one. No, we are going to waste the them. We aren't going to keep the engines or transmissions, crush it all. Sounds a lot like killing pigs to fix the price of pork in the 30's. I'm sure the starving people in the soup lines appreciated the government fiddling with the economy. The program is stupid.

[alexgaddis]

The cash for clunkers campaign really doesn't make much sense to me. For the most part it only helps those that are fairly well off. Those with enough liquidity to take advantage of this program really don't need it. It will give the car companies a temporary shot in the arm, because of the boost in car sales, but they are getting sales now and losing sales a year from now because of it. So, it will temporarily prop up the car companies, but the people who would have waited until next year to get a new car that can afford to are getting then now, so next year sales will be down because of it. The stupidity of what they are doing with the "clunkers" being traded in is shocking. I didn't realize until a few days ago, they are just crushing them. So what if they are still in good working order, and would have been a great first car for a 16 year old kid or someone who couldn't afford a new one. No, we are going to waste the them. We aren't going to keep the engines or transmissions, crush it all. Sounds a lot like killing pigs to fix the price of pork in the 30's. I'm sure the starving people in the soup lines appreciated the government fiddling with the economy. The program is stupid.

I completely agree...this will only help car dealers in the short run...

[westvirginia]

The cash for clunkers campaign really doesn't make much sense to me. For the most part it only helps those that are fairly well off. Those with enough liquidity to take advantage of this program really don't need it. It will give the car companies a temporary shot in the arm, because of the boost in car sales, but they are getting sales now and losing sales a year from now because of it. So, it will temporarily prop up the car companies, but the people who would have waited until next year to get a new car that can afford to are getting then now, so next year sales will be down because of it. The stupidity of what they are doing with the "clunkers" being traded in is shocking. I didn't realize until a few days ago, they are just crushing them. So what if they are still in good working order, and would have been a great first car for a 16 year old kid or someone who couldn't afford a new one. No, we are going to waste the them. We aren't going to keep the engines or transmissions, crush it all. Sounds a lot like killing pigs to fix the price of pork in the 30's. I'm sure the starving people in the soup lines appreciated the government fiddling with the economy. The program is stupid.

 

Hammer, meet nail. The only people this helps are those who did everything right anyway, and the car companies (but at the expense of future sales, more than likely).

[Azazello1313]

The cash for clunkers campaign really doesn't make much sense to me. For the most part it only helps those that are fairly well off. Those with enough liquidity to take advantage of this program really don't need it. It will give the car companies a temporary shot in the arm, because of the boost in car sales, but they are getting sales now and losing sales a year from now because of it. So, it will temporarily prop up the car companies, but the people who would have waited until next year to get a new car that can afford to are getting then now, so next year sales will be down because of it. The stupidity of what they are doing with the "clunkers" being traded in is shocking. I didn't realize until a few days ago, they are just crushing them. So what if they are still in good working order, and would have been a great first car for a 16 year old kid or someone who couldn't afford a new one. No, we are going to waste the them. We aren't going to keep the engines or transmissions, crush it all. Sounds a lot like killing pigs to fix the price of pork in the 30's. I'm sure the starving people in the soup lines appreciated the government fiddling with the economy. The program is stupid.

 

that's one big problem with the whole thing. another that rubs me the wrong way is that you old POS has to get 18 mpg or less to qualify. if you've been driving an "environmentall responsible" old POS these many years and you'd like to trade it in, sorry, you don't qualify . we can only give the big fat govermnent handout to the people whose cars have been blowing smoke in your face all these years, because they're the ones who need 'em some incentivizin'.

 

of course, the other big problem is that a day or two in it had already become a complete bureaucratic clusterf*ck.

 

lastly, something to get used to....notice how right after the government buys itself two major car companies, they start throwing taxpayer money around to subsidize car companies!

[i_am_the_swammi]

The cash for clunkers campaign really doesn't make much sense to me. For the most part it only helps those that are fairly well off. Those with enough liquidity to take advantage of this program really don't need it. It will give the car companies a temporary shot in the arm, because of the boost in car sales, but they are getting sales now and losing sales a year from now because of it. So, it will temporarily prop up the car companies, but the people who would have waited until next year to get a new car that can afford to are getting then now, so next year sales will be down because of it. The stupidity of what they are doing with the "clunkers" being traded in is shocking. I didn't realize until a few days ago, they are just crushing them. So what if they are still in good working order, and would have been a great first car for a 16 year old kid or someone who couldn't afford a new one. No, we are going to waste the them. We aren't going to keep the engines or transmissions, crush it all. Sounds a lot like killing pigs to fix the price of pork in the 30's. I'm sure the starving people in the soup lines appreciated the government fiddling with the economy. The program is stupid.

 

Hmm..my take was completely different. I think that the only real people it helps are those that need it most...people with marginal incomes that have been (and would otherwise continue to) drive their clunker and keep repairing that clunker until the wheels fell off. Say they wanted to get a $25,000 vehicle, but felt the monthly payments would be way too much. Now they can finance $16,000 (since many dealers are matching the govt incentive) at a much more affordable monthly payment, and put what they would have normally spent on significantly more gas and repairs towards a new vehicle which is under warranty. How does this not benefit the average Joe?

 

And it doesn't just help the dealers...it helps everyone from the people that assemble the cars to those that make tires, brakes, and every part that goes into a car. Yes, I understand it props up the industry temporarily, but if it means keeping these people employed now versus next year, I am sure 100% of them are glad to be employed today, and worry about next year when next year comes.

 

+1 on the thoughts on demolishing the cars....couldn't they donate them to either Meals for Wheels of a women's shelter?

[i_am_the_swammi]

that's one big problem with the whole thing. another that rubs me the wrong way is that you old POS has to get 18 mpg or less to qualify. if you've been driving an "environmentall responsible" old POS these many years and you'd like to trade it in, sorry, you don't qualify . we can only give the big fat govermnent handout to the people whose cars have been blowing smoke in your face all these years, because they're the ones who need 'em some incentivizin'.

 

I felt the same way about not being able to take advantage of this program myself...why should I, as someone who has been responsible for years in driving a 1998 Camry, not be able to take advantage of this?

 

Maybe I should buy a $500 gas-guzzling clunker from a junkyard, and turn it into a $4500 voucher

 

 

lastly, something to get used to....notice how right after the government buys itself two major car companies, they start throwing taxpayer money around to subsidize car companies!

 

Actually, I don't have a problem with this, as the program is open to purchasers of all types of cars. Had they limited it just GM or Chrysler vehicles, then I'd see your point more clearly.

 

Some people have a problem with the fact we bailed out GM and Chrysler, and now the govt is incentivizing people to potentially buy foreign cars...but if those cars are sold ar dealerships that are American-owned, and assembled by Americans, then the program is benefiting enough Americans to be OK by me.

[Azazello1313]

I felt the same way about not being able to take advantage of this program myself...why should I, as someone who has been responsible for years in driving a 1998 Camry, not be able to take advantage of this?

 

Maybe I should buy a $500 gas-guzzling clunker from a junkyard, and turn it into a $4500 voucher

 

why would that junkyard sell it for anything less than around $4,000 bucks?

 

 

 

 

Actually, I don't have a problem with this, as the program is open to purchasers of all types of cars. Had they limited it just GM or Chrysler vehicles, then I'd see your point more clearly.

 

Some people have a problem with the fact we bailed out GM and Chrysler, and now the govt is incentivizing people to potentially buy foreign cars...but if those cars are sold ar dealerships that are American-owned, and assembled by Americans, then the program is benefiting enough Americans to be OK by me.

 

it's OK to throw taxpayer subsidies at an industry as long as they "only" own 30% of the market share? that doesn't really make much sense to me. I mean yeah, it would be many times more exasperating if they only offered the subsidy on GM and chrysler cars. but it is still extremely troublesome if they buy 30% of an industry and subsidize the whole industry.

[Big John]

Maybe I should buy a $500 gas-guzzling clunker from a junkyard, and turn it into a $4500 voucher

One of the provisions is that you must have owned the clunker for at least 1 year.

[wiegie]

I completely agree...this will only help car dealers in the short run...

I would guess that this is intentional as they expect that the economy will rebound in the long-run and car sales will return to normal without any government incentives.

 

(Of course if this plan were not only a short-run plan, you can bet your sweet-ass that Perch would have been bitching about how it is another government program that will never end.)

[i_am_the_swammi]

it's OK to throw taxpayer subsidies at an industry as long as they "only" own 30% of the market share? that doesn't really make much sense to me. I mean yeah, it would be many times more exasperating if they only offered the subsidy on GM and chrysler cars. but it is still extremely troublesome if they buy 30% of an industry and subsidize the whole industry.

 

This program is not meant to subsidize the industry. Its a program to get the monster gas guzzlers off the road, and replace them with environmentally responsible vehicles.

 

Keeping people employed, helping the economy thru an ugly period by spurring sales of big-ticket items, and giving all kinds of buyers some great vehicles at a lower cost, just happen to be some of the side-benefits.

Edited August 3, 2009 by i_am_the_swammi

[dmarc117]

I would guess that this is intentional as they expect that the economy will rebound in the long-run and car sales will return to normal without any government incentives.

 

(Of course if this plan were not only a short-run plan, you can bet your sweet-ass that Perch would have been bitching about how it is another government program that will never end.)

 

 

whats normal? we aint going back to the good ole days of free money. this propping up is dangerous.

Edited August 3, 2009 by dmarc117

[wiegie]

whats normal?

whatever the new "non-recession normal" is.

[wiegie]

This program is not meant to subsidize the industry, though it is indeed a benefit of it. its a program to get the monster gas guzzlers off the road, and replace them with environmentally responsible vehicles.

I'd be much more likely to bet that is is indeed designed to benefit the auto industry, with the premise of getting gas guzzlers off the road as cover for making a wealth transfer to the auto industry.

[Pope Flick]

I'm pretty much fine with it. It's probably the most efficient use of stimulus money thus far (if it's even in the stimulus bill, which I don't think so). Replacing a quarter million gas guzzlers with more efficient vehicles? That's a step toward consuming less oil right there.

 

Also, I'd like to see stats on the income brackets it's helping most. I suspect it helps middle to low income people more than people in this thread are willing to give it credit for.

[DMD]

I was wondering - could you trade in a gas-guzzling clunker and buy a new gas guzzling huge pickup truck?

[Azazello1313]

relevant historical anecdote, from the new deal pig holocaust

 

In 1933, the most important cause of low prices was an excess of hogs. Farmers were simply producing more hogs than consumers were willing to buy at a price that would give them all profits. But rather than trying to increase demand, the Roosevelt administration took more direct action. It killed baby pigs.

 

The action to reduce supply by killing some portion of the pigs born in the spring of the year made good sense as part of the administration's emergency efforts to raise prices and incomes for the rural poor. But even before the advent of People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals and other animal rights movements, it was a public relations disaster. In 1933 over one-third of US households had some member out of work and many people experienced hunger. Killing hogs to raise hog prices at such a time struck many as wrong-headed.

...

Historical records show that some 6.4 million pigs and sows were killed at an expenditure of $31 million.

 

One of the more embarrassing features of the New Deal was the Agricultural Adjustment Act of 1933, which paid farmers to slaughter livestock and plow up good crops, as if destroying useful goods could somehow make the nation wealthier. And yet here we are again, with the cash for clunkers program insisting that working vehicles must be junked to qualify for the subsidy.

[wiegie]

I was wondering - could you trade in a gas-guzzling clunker and buy a new gas guzzling huge pickup truck?

I think there are limits on what new cars qualify.

[Azazello1313]

I was wondering - could you trade in a gas-guzzling clunker and buy a new gas guzzling huge pickup truck?

 

yes, as long as the new pickup gets 4 mpg better mileage than the old one. if your old truck got 14 mpg and you want to buy a new one that gets 18 mpg, cha-ching!

[Azazello1313]

I think there are limits on what new cars qualify.

 

from the "cars.gov" website:

 

The new vehicle must have a manufacturer's suggested retail price of not more than $45,000. That price appears on the window sticker on new vehicles. The new vehicle must also achieve minimum combined fuel economy levels. For passenger automobiles, the new vehicle must have a combined fuel economy value of at least 22 miles per gallon. For category 1 trucks, the new vehicle must have a combined fuel economy value of at least 18 miles per gallon. For category 2 trucks, the new vehicle must have a combined fuel economy value of at least 15 miles per gallon. Category 3 trucks have no minimum fuel economy requirement; however, there are special requirements that apply to the purchase of category 3 vehicles.

[TimC]

it's OK to throw taxpayer subsidies at an industry as long as they "only" own 30% of the market share? that doesn't really make much sense to me. I mean yeah, it would be many times more exasperating if they only offered the subsidy on GM and chrysler cars. but it is still extremely troublesome if they buy 30% of an industry and subsidize the whole industry.

 

President Hussein has already transferred our wealth to China, so why not transfer the rest to Japan? Yeah, it should've been for Ford, Chrysler and GM only. And you liberal hippies getting your panties in a wad over Toyotas, Hondas and other ricers being built here by the traitors can suck it.

[Pope Flick]

President Hussein has already transferred our wealth to China, so why not transfer the rest to Japan? Yeah, it should've been for Ford, Chrysler and GM only. And you liberal hippies getting your panties in a wad over Toyotas, Hondas and other ricers being built here by the traitors can suck it.

 

 

http://money.cnn.com/2009/08/03/news/compa...sion=2009080311

 

 

F'ing commie CNN.

[The Irish Doggy]

This program is not meant to subsidize the industry. Its a program to get the monster gas guzzlers off the road, and replace them with environmentally responsible vehicles.

 

 

I'd be much more likely to bet that is is indeed designed to benefit the auto industry, with the premise of getting gas guzzlers off the road as cover for making a wealth transfer to the auto industry.

 

Meh, I think it does both. A 4 mpg improvement is significant when the traded clunker was only getting 10-14, and auto makers can't begin to make new cars without moving inventory.