matt770 Posted September 13, 2009 Share Posted September 13, 2009 I try to get to church whenever I can, usually works out to once or twice a month. A few months back my wife and I went with my parents who were in town visiting. There was a kid of about 16 there with his parents with a scowl on his face the whole time, wearing a shirt that said "Christians to the Lions" in huge gothic letters on the back. He made a point of not participating, sitting the whole time with his arms crossed and staring straight ahead. Today this same family was there again. The kid was wearing a Lamb of God shirt and LISTENED TO HIS IPOD FOR THE ENTIRE MASS, stomping his feet to the music and staring straight ahead with that same defiant look. Again the parents just sat there, clueless. These are very well-groomed and professional-looking people, mind you. The dad looked like Brad Childress with more hair, and the mom looked like your basic PTA-meeting, cookie-baking soccer mom. They had a younger son with them, maybe 13, who did participate in the mass but looked miserable and embarrassed by the whole spectacle. Everyone around them had some kind of reaction, from disgust to head-shaking amusement. I actually contemplated saying something to them, if only because no one else would. I don't have kids and I don't pretend to even comprehend the challenges that parenthood can present. But it would be a cold day in hell before my kid ever put on a display like that. I don't care if the kid is deeply troubled for whatever reason -- talk to him about it, take him to therapy, try to understand, compromise, whatever -- but disrespecting an entire congregation like that would not be an option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted September 13, 2009 Share Posted September 13, 2009 The kid is clearly rude and ignorant but "evil" is kinda stretching it. The parents are the problem - my kid would NOT behave like that in ANY public setting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
untateve Posted September 13, 2009 Share Posted September 13, 2009 Church rant, Can't escape evil and ignorance even at Mass The joke here is obvious. I refrained as much as I could. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riffraff Posted September 13, 2009 Share Posted September 13, 2009 (edited) The joke here is obvious. I refrained as much as I could. Escaping ignorance and church in the same sentence. But that's an entirely different and lockable subject. The parents could have forced the child to wear appropriate clothing; doubt they could force him to act appropriately. The religion of the parents isn't always the religion of the child. Shouldn't force him to be there at all. Edited September 13, 2009 by Riffraff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted September 13, 2009 Share Posted September 13, 2009 The parents are the problem - my kid would NOT behave like that in ANY public setting. +1,000. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Cid Posted September 13, 2009 Share Posted September 13, 2009 I have a bigger problem with the parents than the kid in this particular situation. While the kid shouldn't be acting out in such a way as to disrespect the organization (regardless of your beliefs, respect is respect) the parents have got to know what is going to happen if they force their child to be in this situation. Clearly they haven't been able to inprint on the kid the need to show respect to others, therefore, they should remove the kid from a situation where he obviously wants to cause trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 well, all I can say is, who knows what's going on with them? if you're going to church and looking down on other people in the congregation, I don't think you're doing it right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donutrun Jellies Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 (edited) Reach out and talk to the family after Mass each time you see them. Welcoming, non-confrontational, and yet not-enabling the inappropriate/distracting conduct ... done in small doses spread over time ... Doesn't have to be much and you can frame it so Mom & Dad don't get defensive ... After the next Mass you see them at, wander over to intersect them and say "Hey folks I'm Matt770. I'm glad you all could come as a family - it's nice to see young people here at Mass. When I was a kid, I'm not sure I appreciated how important family stuff was." Leave it at that. The next time you see them at Mass, wave to him before Mass and then chat again after. If the kid's been a distraction, add a part specific to his disruptive behavior from that particular week. Greet the parents warmly and then turn to the kid and say "You know, while you're here, though, I'd ask that you not tap your feet to your ipod music as it distracted me from the service. If you'd hold off from that for the 45 minutes, it would really help." The third week, maybe sit in the pew in front of them so you can turn and shake his hand at the greeting of peace -- or at least say "peace be with you" if he won't extend his hand. At the end of that 3rd Mass, follow up with another conversation -- one that's not about behavior. "Hey, good to see you again. Glad you could make it. How are things with you?" Then, from there, you've positioned yourself each time to chat after Mass -- and address the distractions only in the week they occur. Take the time to listen if the kid speaks and look for something to build on in terms of common interests. Be prepared for a blank strare -- it's fine -- you're looking to build a relationship while setting some boundaries for the type of behavior you expect in your environment. Your role is not to replace the parents, but to provide some adult support. No need to go after his non-participation habits -- all you want to do is address the most aggregious of the distractions, the inappropriate stuff that wrecks Mass for somebody's gramma sitting nearby. Your role is not to berate the kid or force him to do anything -- you just lay out a welcome and gently but directly identify the minimum standards. In their lives, you become that crazy guy at Mass who always talks to them at -- while helping subtly shape his behavior so you can enjoy Mass. A bit of adult leadership from parishoners like you might just open doors in the kid's life. The faster he learns that you don't get to like everything and no one can force you to believe anything, but it's expected that you will show a minimum level of respect for others, the better off he will be. Cliche time? Be the change you want to see in the world. Edited September 14, 2009 by Donutrun Jellies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cre8tiff Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 well, all I can say is, who knows what's going on with them? if you're going to church and looking down on other people in the congregation, I don't think you're doing it right. That ringing sound is the nail being hit directly on the head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdrudge Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 Clearly they haven't been able to inprint on the kid the need to show respect to others, therefore, they should remove the kid from a situation where he obviously wants to cause trouble.What happens when you remove the kid from the situation and the respect still doesn't come? You've now shown the kid that he can get out of what he doesn't want to do or at least use it to his advantage. However if you ignore the disrespect, you remove the "power" that it gives him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt770 Posted September 14, 2009 Author Share Posted September 14, 2009 What happens when you remove the kid from the situation and the respect still doesn't come? You've now shown the kid that he can get out of what he doesn't want to do or at least use it to his advantage. However if you ignore the disrespect, you remove the "power" that it gives him. Obviously the issues with this kid started long before he came to church with an iPod. Probably years of neglect or who knows what brand of bad parenting culminated in an angry and disturbed kid. I was just dumbfounded that the parents could be so oblivious to the scene it caused, and how uncomfortable everyone around them was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt770 Posted September 14, 2009 Author Share Posted September 14, 2009 well, all I can say is, who knows what's going on with them? if you're going to church and looking down on other people in the congregation, I don't think you're doing it right. Cute and easy reply, and really a perfect illustration of why common decency is eroding from our society. Hey man, anything goes, we should all practice tolerance. God forbid you stand up for what's right anymore, don't want to be branded a judgmental bigot. Meanwhile all the institutions that built our society crumble down around us and people wonder why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masterwing Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 Im still wondering how anyone can belive the earth is 10,000 years old, dinasaurs didnt exist- the sun the sun!!!! its obviously over 10,000 years old!!! people have been bombed burned alive molested and persecuted in every way if they are not christians......hundreds of years ago...presently....it never frickin ends with it. church is for the weak, the ignorant and the brainwashed guilty types if you ask me. NOTHING IS MORE EVIL THAN CHRISTAINITY BESIDES INDIVIDUAL CRazy nuts like hitler dahmer bushetc...have a nice day.................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 What happens when you remove the kid from the situation and the respect still doesn't come? You've now shown the kid that he can get out of what he doesn't want to do or at least use it to his advantage. However if you ignore the disrespect, you remove the "power" that it gives him. You let him get "out" of going to church at the price of something else..."oh, you don't want to go to church? That's fine, you can stay home with Dad and clean the bathrooms" etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cre8tiff Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 Im still wondering how anyone can belive the earth is 10,000 years old, dinasaurs didnt exist- the sun the sun!!!! its obviously over 10,000 years old!!! people have been bombed burned alive molested and persecuted in every way if they are not christians......hundreds of years ago...presently....it never frickin ends with it. church is for the weak, the ignorant and the brainwashed guilty types if you ask me. NOTHING IS MORE EVIL THAN CHRISTAINITY BESIDES INDIVIDUAL CRazy nuts like hitler dahmer bushetc...have a nice day.................... Thus spake masterwing and verily was the thread locked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 Cute and easy reply, and really a perfect illustration of why common decency is eroding from our society. Hey man, anything goes, we should all practice tolerance. God forbid you stand up for what's right anymore, don't want to be branded a judgmental bigot. Meanwhile all the institutions that built our society crumble down around us and people wonder why. This response doesn't seem to have much to do with what Az said. Bottom line is that for whatever reason, the problem with the kid is that the parents did/are doing something incorrect - or to give them credit, the correct things they did just didn't stick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billay Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 (edited) Tackling the problem involves both bringing the child to church, and ensuring that he behaves appropriately. It seems as though the parents only did half the job and are relying on social norms to keep the kid in line once there. Good luck with that, half of bucking Christianity is about bucking social norms. The parents either need to do the whole job, or find another way to communicate with their child. Edited September 14, 2009 by billay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Beatings Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 At least the kid was there with them. Presence is half the battle IMO. Also, keep in mind that not every person is on the same page spiritually at the exact same time. You can try to teach your children about faith and God, but if they decide they don't want to participate, you can't very well force them. Parent's have to pick their battles and maybe they were simply trying to avoid making a big scene with their teenager in front of everyone. Now, I agree that this is probably seen as a sign of disrespect on the part of the kid and the parents that allowed it... but again, we don't know the history, and maybe this was the best kind of compromise that they could come up with just to get their authority challenging teen in the church in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westvirginia Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 This response doesn't seem to have much to do with what Az said. Bottom line is that for whatever reason, the problem with the kid is that the parents did/are doing something incorrect - or to give them credit, the correct things they did just didn't stick. +1, and I'd say the parents are partly right in making his arse come to church if that's what they expect, but I'd stick that i-pod right up his prissy little tail if he was mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masterwing Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 Maybe they were on there way out of town and he had to come with this time....who cares. Jesus is dead. get over it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double Agent Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 Im still wondering how anyone can belive the earth is 10,000 years old, dinasaurs didnt exist- the sun the sun!!!! its obviously over 10,000 years old!!! people have been bombed burned alive molested and persecuted in every way if they are not christians......hundreds of years ago...presently....it never frickin ends with it. church is for the weak, the ignorant and the brainwashed guilty types if you ask me. NOTHING IS MORE EVIL THAN CHRISTAINITY BESIDES INDIVIDUAL CRazy nuts like hitler dahmer bushetc...have a nice day.................... Nice contribution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt770 Posted September 14, 2009 Author Share Posted September 14, 2009 Clearly I was born about 40 years too late. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double Agent Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 Clearly I was born about 40 years too late. It would bother me too. But it's not your place to correct their son. If you said something, you'd probably regret it. Especially if they felt unwelcome and never came back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Cid Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 Maybe they were on there way out of town and he had to come with this time....who cares. Jesus is dead. get over it. Dude, my thoughts on religion are very similar to yours but the idea is to keep the conversation civil. If you don't the thread will get locked or deleted. If you can't keep it civil, please don't respond. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muck Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 I think that Donutrun Jellies has a good idea. Just chat up the family in a non-confrontational way; just tell them all that you're glad they're there...making a point to make casual eye contact with each one (if you can) so they will know you're being genuine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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