H1N1 Vaccine

[muck]

From an email from a relatively reliable source:

 

***********************

 

My sister Kim just called... for those of you that don’t know she is a RN in the ER at Baptist.

 

The had a staff meeting this morning on the H1N1 vaccination, and the doctors at Baptist are advising that their staff and patients NOT get this vaccination. They have had several reports of people getting Guillain-Barre Syndrome. They are also concerned about how fast this vaccination has been developed and the lack of testing that has been done concerning this vaccine. One nurse at Baptist has a son that took the vaccination and has developed Guillain-Barre’s. (Guillain-Barré syndrome is a disorder in which the body's immune system attacks part of the peripheral nervous system.

 

The first symptoms of Guillain-Barre’s include varying degrees of weakness or tingling sensations in the legs. In many instances the weakness and abnormal sensations spread to the arms and upper body. These symptoms can increase in intensity until certain muscles cannot be used at all, and, when severe, the patient is almost totally paralyzed. In these cases the disorder is life threatening, potentially interfering with breathing, and, at times, with blood pressure or heart rate ... and is considered a medical emergency. Such a patient is often put on a respirator to assist with breathing and is watched closely for problems such as an abnormal heart beat, infections, blood clots, and high or low blood pressure. Most patients, however, recover from even the most severe cases of Guillain-Barré syndrome, although some continue to have a certain degree of weakness.) You can read more about it at http://www.ninds.nih.gov/ .

 

She also said, of course you should ask your doctor about it if you have any questions.

 

**********************************

 

Chargerz?

 

Anyone else?

[Hankk]

Sounded like bs to me

 

Do vaccines cause GBS?

It is not fully understood why some people develop GBS, but it is believed that the nerve cells are damaged by a person’s own immune system. Many types of infections, and in very rare cases vaccines, may activate the immune system to cause damage to the nerve cells.

 

How common is GBS, and how common is it after people are vaccinated for seasonal influenza?

GBS is rare. Each year, about 3,000 to 6,000 people in the United States develop GBS whether or not they received a vaccination – that’s 1 to 2 people out of every 100,000 people. This is referred to as the background rate.

 

In 1976, there was a small risk of GBS following influenza (swine flu) vaccination (approximately 1 additional case per 100,000 people who received the swine flu vaccine). That number of GBS cases was slightly higher than the background rate for GBS. Since then, numerous studies have been done to evaluate if other flu vaccines were associated with GBS. In most studies, no association was found, but two studies suggested that approximately 1 additional person out of 1 million vaccinated people may be at risk for GBS associated with the seasonal influenza vaccine. It is important to keep in mind that severe illness and possible death can be associated with influenza, and vaccination is the best way to prevent influenza infection and its complications.

 

What happened in 1976 with GBS and the swine flu vaccine?

Scientists first reported a suspected link between GBS and vaccinations in 1976, during a national campaign to vaccinate people against a swine flu virus. The investigation found that vaccine recipients had a higher risk for GBS than those who were not vaccinated (about 1 additional case occurred per 100,000 people vaccinated). Given this association, and the fact that the swine flu disease was limited, the vaccination program was stopped.

 

Since then, numerous studies have been done to evaluate if other flu vaccines were associated with GBS. In most studies, no association was found, but two studies suggested that approximately 1 additional person out of 1 million vaccinated people may be at risk for GBS associated with the seasonal influenza vaccine.

 

Why did some people develop GBS after they received the 1976 swine flu vaccine?

The Institute of Medicine (IOM) conducted a thorough scientific review in 2003 and concluded that people who received the 1976 swine influenza vaccine had a slight increased risk for developing GBS. Scientists have multiple theories on why this increased risk may have occurred, but the exact reason for this association remains unknown.

 

Do you expect that the 2009 H1N1 vaccine will be associated with GBS?

We expect the 2009 H1N1 vaccine to have a similar safety profile as seasonal flu vaccines, which have very good safety track records. The seasonal influenza vaccine has not been consistently associated with GBS.

[10g_DBA]

http://www.reuters.com/article/healthNews/...Name=healthNews

Many health workers won't take swine flu vaccine

 

NEW YORK (Reuters Health) - Even though testing has so far raised no "red flags" regarding safety of potential swine flu vaccines, surveys and focus groups show that healthcare workers and members of the public may be leery of being getting shots when supplies become available this fall.

 

Writing in the BMJ, Dr. Paul K. S. Chan and associates at the Chinese University of Hong Kong note that "in nearly all countries with a (pandemic) preparedness plan, healthcare workers are listed as the priority group for mass vaccination."

 

In May of this year when the WHO alert level had been raised to phase 5, meaning a pandemic was imminent, researchers distributed 810 questionnaires to public hospital workers, primarily doctors and nurses in Hong Kong. (The level was later raised to phase 6, pandemic.)

 

Less than half (48%) of the 389 workers who returned the questionnaires intended to accept pre-pandemic H1N1 vaccination. The most common reason for refusal was potential side effects, followed by questions about the vaccine's efficacy and the conviction that it was "not yet the right time to be vaccinated."

 

"This is particularly surprising in a city where the SARS outbreak had such a huge impact," Dr. Chan's team points out.

 

Those with a history of seasonal flu vaccination were more likely to be willing to be vaccinated.

 

In an accompanying editorial, Dr. Rachel Jordan, from the University of Birmingham, and Dr. Andrew Hayward, from the University College of London, write that to increase vaccine use, "use of convenient mobile systems, monitoring and feedback systems, and 'opt-out' systems (where healthcare workers need to indicate their reasons for not accepting the vaccine) show promise."

 

In a separate article published online in the Emerging Health Threats Journal, very few of 85 focus group participants in British Columbia said they would be willing to be vaccinated in the event of a pandemic. Very few people said they or their children would definitely get vaccinated, the authors report.

 

Many participants were concerned about the risk of infection versus the risks involved in using newly developed vaccines, write Dr. Natalie Henrich of the University of British Columbia and Dr. Bev J. Holmes at Simon Fraser University, both in Vancouver. "Participants were hesitant to use the novel vaccines (due to) concern that unsafe pharmaceuticals may be rushed to market during the health crisis," the authors said.

 

The focus groups were conducted before the current H1N1 pandemic, in 2006 and 2007.

 

Instead, many individuals believed they could protect themselves through their own behavior, including frequent handwashing, staying away from crowded places and sick people, and eating well to maintain their immune systems.

Edited October 15, 2009 by 10g_DBA

[Jimmy Neutron]

What's that about uninteded consequences?

[cliaz]

I believe it. Just look at the 70s when the swine flu rolled through and they rushed Vaccines....a lot of people developed GBS.

 

In my professional opinion [as a certified FEMA Pandemic Emergency Manager] I will not get this vaccine. The reason we get a flu shot each year is due to the fact that the flu viruses are constantly mutating. This means that our bodies do not have a proper resistance to a particular flu strain. That's really not that much different from this N1H1 virus when you think about it. Outside of the under developed countries and the extremely rare instances in modern countries where health young people are developing a severe respiratory illness because of the virus and dying, this flu bug is no worse than our normal seasonal flues. The danger in this virus [perceived danger] is if it were to mutate or combined with another flu bug to create a lethal version of its self. However, my buddy at NIH gave me this real technical explanation which i honestly cannot understand so he had to dumb it down for me but the long and short of it is that the little lollipop looking appendage the virus uses to insert its genetic material into a cell is constructed in such a way that it is highly improbable that it will ever combined or mutate any further.

[CaP'N GRuNGe]

We'll be getting the vaccine when it's available. H1N1 has hospitalized healthy children (latest word is about half of those hospitalized had no other existing complications.) I'm not taking that chance. Hopefully the vaccines get rolling soon. My 4 1/2 month old can't get until 6 months.

[Jackass]

This sounds like complete bs. That being said, i won't be getting the vaccine unless i feel that i have to, but that's just a personal choice.

[CaP'N GRuNGe]

Also like to add that it's assinine for healthcare workers to not get vaccinated. Fine, they don't want to protect themselves, but what happens when they handle H1N1 patients and then become a carrier of the virus and share it with everyone?

[cliaz]

Also like to add that it's assinine for healthcare workers to not get vaccinated. Fine, they don't want to protect themselves, but what happens when they handle H1N1 patients and then become a carrier of the virus and share it with everyone?

 

The low dosage given for the vaccine can result in people being asymptomatic. These people become infected yet do not show sign of the flu and shed the virus without knowledge of carrying it. Their immune system did not receive a proper amount of the viruses dna or whatever to develop a proper immunity. Therefore, they can catch it and the virus can begin replicating longer before the immune system response than if the patient received a full dose. This means people who think they are immune can spread it without knowledge.

[millerx]

We'll be getting the vaccine when it's available. H1N1 has hospitalized healthy children (latest word is about half of those hospitalized had no other existing complications.) I'm not taking that chance. Hopefully the vaccines get rolling soon. My 4 1/2 month old can't get until 6 months.

how about that... I have a 4 month old as well. Congrats to you, sir! I also have two older children, but I'm not looking to get 'em vaccinated.

 

Also like to add that it's assinine for healthcare workers to not get vaccinated. Fine, they don't want to protect themselves, but what happens when they handle H1N1 patients and then become a carrier of the virus and share it with everyone?

I work in the healthcare field (although not directly, as I'm on the IT side) and have spoken with many of the ER doctors and nurses. Many of them are on the fence about whether they will take the vaccine as well. Most tell me that the lack of testing and the rush to produce it are, in large part, the reason they might not get it. Because many of them have been doing this for quite a while, I trust their judgment that it might not be the best course of action. And I definitely trust it more than the media hype that like to scare the bejesus out of people so they can gain more viewers.

 

Anyway, to call healthcare workers assinine for not getting it might be a little bit harsh. They deal with viruses and all forms of illness all the time and have seen their share of these types of issues. All I'm saying is that the healthcare workers are not quite as panicked as the media has made this possible pandemic out to be... concerned, yes, but not panicked. I mean, these people have families of their own and it's not like they want to die from a virus, so why would they been so resistant? Maybe it's because they know more than what the public knows... that the reward may not be worth the risk. I mean, basically, the swine flu is about as deadly as the regular flu. The regular flu can kill just as much, but the rarity of the swine flu makes it "the scary unknown".

 

 

ETA: Please remember, the ones most vulnerable to this virus are the very young and very old. If you are looking into get vaccinated but are not in these categories, allow those that are to get it before you do.

Edited October 15, 2009 by millerx

[Chargerz]

I'll be getting the H1N1 vaccine as soon as it's available to me. As a health care provider I really need to protect myself. GBS is a rare complication of vaccinations in general. The H1N1 vaccine is no different. All of you have to make a decision on whether your risk of getting Swine flu is great enough to warrant receiving the vaccination and risking a rare complication. The H1N1 virus does attack the pediatric population more frequently and more severely so the decision for adults is even tougher this year than usual.

Edited October 15, 2009 by Chargerz

[satelliteoflovegm]

I know this pregnant lady, she doesn't want to get the shot. Should she avoid it?

[Azazello1313]

the wife talked to her dad yesterday (a doc in a clinic) and he recommended we hold off at least a little while on getting the vaccine for us and the little girl (just shy of 2 years). I don't think he said if he was getting one right away or not.

[Skippy]

I planned on getting it for sure. I planned on my children getting it as well. I work in the school environment and I can tell you first hand that here in South West PA, the Swine flu is hitting pretty often. The site that I have been working at over the past two weeks had 42% of the children absent. They for sure have six confirmed cases of the flu and so far as I could tell there was about 20% of the teachers out yesterday.

 

I get my normal flu shot on Monday by the way.

[Kid Cid]

I never get flu shots. I allow my naturally strong immune system fight the crap off. Of course, I don't work in either the education or medical fields, something that would cause me to re-evaluate this particular decision.

[twiley]

I'll be getting the H1N1 vaccine as soon as it's available to me.

This is all I need to know, I trust the doc 100%.

[Big F'n Dave]

Got the same email. Not getting the vaccination. Not because of the email or any of the other paranoid, alarmist rumors circulating. Just don't feel I need it. I know several people who've had swine flu and from what I can tell, it's the f'n flu. Obviously more aggressive than other strains, but it's still the f'n flu.

[matt770]

I never get flu shots. I allow my naturally strong immune system fight the crap off. Of course, I don't work in either the education or medical fields, something that would cause me to re-evaluate this particular decision.

 

+1. Also I actually like the feeling, the extreme fatigue and body aches make being in bed under a pile of covers feel amazingly good. My wife brings me soup and I get to sleep off and on, then watch DVDs, and I have a great excuse not to do anything.

[Puddy]

Obviously more aggressive than other strains, but it's still the f'n flu.

But why would you want to get the f'n flu....especially a more aggressive one

[dmarc117]

just got the regular flu shot, staying far away from the swine.

[Rebellab]

Man, I am really up in the air. In the last 20 years, I can honestly say that I have only had the full blown flu a few times. I never have gotten the shot either. In my old job, I was around people all the time, sick our otherwise and I have remained healthy. I am toying with getting the flu shot, if they were not out of the seasonal flu shot, I would have gotten it this year. I guess I will wait and see, but the last thing I want is to get sick about the time we go on vacation in Feb.

[Furd]

This thread has morphed from a specific topic - is the H1N1 vaccine related to the development of GBS - to the annual flu shot discussion.

 

The initial post is bs. What is this 'Baptist" hospital? Is an entire staff of physicians really going to advise all of their patients not to get a flu shot because of risks of GBS or other concerns? Really?

[Big F'n Dave]

But why would you want to get the f'n flu....

 

Because that which does not kill us makes us stronger. And I hate needles.

[Puddy]

Because that which does not kill us makes us stronger. And I hate needles.

touche'

[bpwallace49]

One nurse at Baptist has a son that took the vaccination and has developed Guillain-Barre’s. (Guillain-Barré syndrome is a disorder in which the body's immune system attacks part of the peripheral nervous system.

 

Muck, no offense, but if it is only one isolated case among thousands and thousands of cases, isnt that the exception rather than the rule? Isnt there always some small risk with any vaccination?

 

I am not advocating the H1N1 shot, as I will probably not take it, along with my family. I am just questioning the rate of complications associated with the shot.

 

PS- Go to youtube and pull up swine flu shot clips. They are all from fundamentalist religious groups that say the gubmnet is secretly injecting "tracking devices" and that getting the shot will be "mandatory" as it is part of the anti-Christ's plan to take over the world . . .