Rhode Island school fires every teacher

[polksalet]

http://www.businessinsider.com/henry-blodg...-of-them-2010-2

[dmarc117]

simply awesome

[The Holy Roller]

Damn straight! Over half the kids aren't graduating from the high school?! Someone is simply not doing their job. No other profession allows such lack of productivity to go on and be rewarded with a paycheck. Except, maybe, some goberment officials and big bankers. Way to go teacher's union!

[dmarc117]

there are plenty of great teachers and there are plenty of horrible teachers. both get the same treatment under the unions! thats wrong.

 

fire every public employee and start over.

Edited February 17, 2010 by dmarc117

[Perchoutofwater]

there are plenty of great teachers and there are plenty of horrible teachers. both get the same treatment under the unions! thats wrong.

 

+1

[wiegie]

Here is a potential problem: Now that a very strong signal has been sent that not graduating your students and/or having them fail your classes could result in actions being taken against you, there is now a very strong incentive to just pass students who haven't learned a dang thing. ("Gee look, we are now graduating 96% of our students!" :woohoo: )

 

(This is NOT to say that there was not a problem there. Nor is it to say that the union was right. I just think the solution is not going to be easy either.)

[kpholmes]

 

I like it.

75k is a ridiculous amount for horrible teachers.

My hometown district's (Northern California) high school teacher salary is 40-65k.

 

Paging our resident teacher - Irish.

[TimC]

Here is a potential problem: Now that a very strong signal has been sent that not graduating your students and/or having them fail your classes could result in actions being taken against you, there is now a very strong incentive to just pass students who haven't learned a dang thing. ("Gee look, we are now graduating 96% of our students!" :woohoo: )

 

(This is NOT to say that there was not a problem there. Nor is it to say that the union was right. I just think the solution is not going to be easy either.)

 

Kind of like college professors that do the same as long as the check clears?

[Skippy]

Here is a potential problem: Now that a very strong signal has been sent that not graduating your students and/or having them fail your classes could result in actions being taken against you, there is now a very strong incentive to just pass students who haven't learned a dang thing. ("Gee look, we are now graduating 96% of our students!" :woohoo: )

 

(This is NOT to say that there was not a problem there. Nor is it to say that the union was right. I just think the solution is not going to be easy either.)

That is exactly what I was going to post. I work in the public school system and there are plenty that should go but there are plenty that do a great job and should be rewarded. It is the job of the admin to make sure teachers are doing a good job. A broad paint brush is never a good thing.

 

 

I like it.

75k is a ridiculous amount for horrible teachers.

My hometown district's (Northern California) high school teacher salary is 40-65k.

 

Paging our resident teacher - Irish.

Ridicullous if you think that 75K for a good teacher is out of whack. I know what a good teacher does and 75K isn't enough for those teachers, IMHO.

[yo mama]

Here is a potential problem: Now that a very strong signal has been sent that not graduating your students and/or having them fail your classes could result in actions being taken against you, there is now a very strong incentive to just pass students who haven't learned a dang thing. ("Gee look, we are now graduating 96% of our students!" :woohoo: )

 

(This is NOT to say that there was not a problem there. Nor is it to say that the union was right. I just think the solution is not going to be easy either.)

True. But your point is that the children turn out poorly either way, and maybe that can't be avoided. But we can avoid overpaying for incompetent teachers. And, heaven forbid, maybe *some* teachers would actually be motivated to do a better job if they knew they might lose their job.

 

You raise a valid point, but it would appear to be the lesser of two evils.

[kpholmes]

Ridicullous if you think that 75K for a good teacher is out of whack. I know what a good teacher does and 75K isn't enough for those teachers, IMHO.

Not at all what I was saying.

 

My point was I think 75k for bad teachers (A school that graduates less than 50%) is ridiculous. I know fantastic teachers that work in a district where they get capped at 60k WITH a masters, and it's not nearly enough. Teaching is one of the most underpaid and unappreciated jobs in our society.

 

I'm going into teaching in the fall, btw.

[Caveman_Nick]

Ridicullous if you think that 75K for a good teacher is out of whack. I know what a good teacher does and 75K isn't enough for those teachers, IMHO.

 

Actually, what the guy said was that 75K was ridiculous for horrible teachers, not for good teachers.

 

Salary is and should also be relative, and the median income in that town was listed at $22,000 according to the link (sourced from Wikipedia). $75,000 is a pretty big check compared to that median income.

[yo mama]

Not at all what I was saying.

 

My point was I think 75k for bad teachers (A school that graduates less than 50%) is ridiculous. I know fantastic teachers that work in a district where they get capped at 60k WITH a masters, and it's not nearly enough. Teaching is one of the most underpaid and unappreciated jobs in our society.

 

I'm going into teaching in the fall, btw.

There appear to be job openings in Delaware, FYI...

[Whiskey Pimp]

Here is a potential problem: Now that a very strong signal has been sent that not graduating your students and/or having them fail your classes could result in actions being taken against you, there is now a very strong incentive to just pass students who haven't learned a dang thing. ("Gee look, we are now graduating 96% of our students!" :woohoo: )

 

(This is NOT to say that there was not a problem there. Nor is it to say that the union was right. I just think the solution is not going to be easy either.)

 

Does it really matter? If a student who normally would not graduate is given a pass just because the teachers don't want to lose their jobs does it really affect them personally or society in any way? That person was likely not going on to post-secondary education so they just start working at some basic job anyway.

[Kid Cid]

Does it really matter? If a student who normally would not graduate is given a pass just because the teachers don't want to lose their jobs does it really affect them personally or society in any way? That person was likely not going on to post-secondary education so they just start working at some basic job anyway.

[Gonkis]

The parents in that town must suck, as well. Over half of them should be fired, too.

[dmarc117]

why cant there be a rating system concocted that includes the admin, peers, parents and test scores.

Edited February 17, 2010 by dmarc117

[Whiskey Pimp]

 

 

I'm not sure I get this. Are you saying I'm fishing? I'm being serious though. What does a high school diploma really get you if you weren't planning on going further with your schooling? Are there jobs out there that someone who graduates with a 51% average would get while someone with no diploma wouldn't be considered?

[buddahj]

I think she's doing the right thing. Hopefully it'll work out for the best.

[gbpfan1231]

If there were a handful of good teachers at that school could those few now get rehired and start over without a union? If they rehire teachers at this school are they rehired as union teachers or did firing all of them basically kill the union??

[bpwallace49]

How can this work? Dont teachers unions have extraordinary power over hiring/firing guidelines? Wont this be sent to an arbitrator?

[rocknrobn26]

I can only speak from what I know and that is restricted to Illinois.

 

The Super does not have the power to fire all the teachers. That would require a vote by the board or minimally board approval (still via a vote).

The Union nor the board has any more power (individually or together) than the contract allows.

$70K-$78K avg. salary /year seems high for that small of a school. In terms I am familiar w/ in my area (avg income of our residents is >$60K/year) that would mean the average teacher would have at least a Masters and 20+ years of teaching experience. Very high for most schools.

50% don't graduate.......What % drop out? They have to be included in that overall % and I have a feeling w/ that low of a community income, the dropout rate is very high.

Unions do NOT want bad teachers (whatever that really means) any more than the rest of us. Laugh if you want, but it's true.

Unions protect all teachers against capricious behavior of BOE and admins.

They allow for a BOE not violating a contract.

They, following the terms of the contract, make sure that due process is followed. Crying "WOLF" in an educational environment is toooo easy.

 

Some questions:

 

Did the Super try to invoke these changes whilst the contract was still in force?

Wouldn't that be a breach of contract? Like it or not...a contract is a CONTRACT.

Should teacher contracts be more "breakable" by the BOE than let's say other contracts w/ building contractors, side services, or any other entity?

What constitutes a good or bad teacher for that matter? I know what my standards are...what are yours?

Standardized testing seems to be the current yardstick by which we hope to measure a students' learning. Does it really work?

In my area the avg. ACT scores are used by Realtors and parents to exhibit a school's prowess. That test means nothing more than a group (the ones who wrote it) saying, based on your score, odds of doing well in college. It was never intended to be a yardstick for a school's value.

I've said it before and I'll say it again...kids cannot be measured like a gear in a machine shop. I have no answers to how best to measure a teacher's worth (avoiding the obvious/overt signs) or how to measure what a kid REALLY learned and will take with them throughout life. Measuring a kid's 4 HS years (most difficult in many cases) immediately vs measuring him or her 10 years from now is very different. Which is more important?

I know I changed a lot of lives in my career. I think most for the better. I had many hard cases. Tough kids that needed a reason to learn. In some instances it was close to a physical altercation. But seeing them years later and/or having them contact me later and telling me how I helped.....well that is the reward in teaching that no one but a teacher can appreciate. I am happy to say that I have had many! And I truly believe most teachers are GOOD teachers. Believe me...bad teachers don't always just stick around for a paycheck. They get board and move on. Thank God!

 

My background for those that don't know me: (Not bragging but I wasn't always a teacher)

4 businesses

5+ years of industrial experience. (tool & die, welding, assembly, and more in both union and non-union shops)

Graduated from HS in the 50%tile.

Graduated college in the 90%tile.

Taught every grade from 7th thru Grad School.

Co-wrote 5+ books on AutoCad.

Retired as a Professor Emeritus.

 

kpholmes:

May you enjoy and be rewarded with teaching as much as I was. If so, you will have a VERY rewarding career. God Bless you and ALL teachers.

[polksalet]

I'm not sure I get this. Are you saying I'm fishing? I'm being serious though. What does a high school diploma really get you if you weren't planning on going further with your schooling? Are there jobs out there that someone who graduates with a 51% average would get while someone with no diploma wouldn't be considered?

 

A high school diploma means nothing to me. Really, its like saying "I'm 18".

[rocknrobn26]

A high school diploma means nothing to me. Really, its like saying "I'm 18".

 

And without one....what does that say?

Sorry polk, it DOES mean a lot. More if you're in a low income area.

A college degree means nothing, when compared to a certification if that is what is the industry standard.

[Skippy]

Not at all what I was saying.

 

My point was I think 75k for bad teachers (A school that graduates less than 50%) is ridiculous. I know fantastic teachers that work in a district where they get capped at 60k WITH a masters, and it's not nearly enough. Teaching is one of the most underpaid and unappreciated jobs in our society.

 

I'm going into teaching in the fall, btw.

Okay, I slowed down and read it again. I was in a hurry and took it the way that I fired back at you.

 

Good luck down the road. It is not a job for the weak if you go into a urban public school system. Not saying that you can't do well and make a hugh difference, I see plenty that do, just saying that you don't exactly end up with the best kids all the time.