Poll: Underwater

[matt770]

Interesting piece on 60 Minutes last night hit close to home. Curious to see what you fine red-blooded Huddlers have to say.

[cre8tiff]

If the safety of my family was involved, I may be tempted to choose A). WIthout that, I would stick it out.

[Azazello1313]

hard for me to say without being in the situation. but I think I would try to work toward some sort of short-sale settlement if at all possible if I was intent on moving out.

[MrTed46]

If safety is a REAL issue, then I would not care about anything but moving my family to a safe location. If SAFETY is not a concern as much as $ is, then I would ride it out to honor my contract.

[Cunning Runt]

If safety is a REAL issue, then I would not care about anything but moving my family to a safe location. If SAFETY is not a concern as much as $ is, then I would ride it out to honor my contract.

 

Pretty much my thoughts as well.

[moneymakers]

Rent it out section 8

[Kid Cid]

I might consider renting it out but I probably would just ride it out. I'm stubborn to a fault.

[MrTed46]

See Gran Torino

[TimC]

I used to be the type that would honor my mortgage no matter what comes. However, I've changed after watching too many businesses (including our own) settle debt for pennies on the dollar and be rewarded with much higher stock prices. Or just simply walking away. It's good business sense and if I lived in Arizona, California, Florida, etc that had taken such a hugh hit that I wouldn't recover my money for decade(s), then I'd no longer have any moral reservations about walking away. It's business and default conditions are written in every contract. Sure, it'd ruin your credit for 5-7 years, but you gotta do what you gotta do. However, if I could still afford my mortgage payment and wanted to ride it out, I probably would. If the neighbors were threatening to kill my family or something, then I'd walk without looking back....or just kill them first and get away with it probably.

[matt770]

If safety is a REAL issue, then I would not care about anything but moving my family to a safe location. If SAFETY is not a concern as much as $ is, then I would ride it out to honor my contract.

 

Safety is a very real issue, in addition to my wife's mental health and the future of our marriage. I've tried every possible way of putting a bright face on it. We spend weekends out of town. We put in a home theater in the basement so we can blast a movie to drown out the packs of screaming kids and barking dogs outside. We tell ourselves it will get better. The reality is that our day to day existence is pure unmitigated hell, and I fear my wife is headed for clinical depression.

 

Consider that corporations do it all the time -- the 60 Minutes piece talked about commercial real estate and housing projects that tanked, and the owners (large firms) walked away. At the end of the day it's a business decision.

[detlef]

Certainly family comes first and, though I marked that I would ride it out because that's what you do, I can't say what I'd do if I truly feared for mine and my wife's safety and didn't not have the money to float the difference to sell and move.

 

My main argument for riding it out is that's what people need to start doing. Riding it out. People acting like the sky is falling is going to make the sky fall. People asked me why I opened a new place in '09 and I explained that I did because that's what I do for a living. I open restaurants. If people keep doing what they do, provided what they do is a good thing, that's the best chance we have of making this whole thing come around.

 

So, without having seen the show, I have to wonder. Was the neighborhood that was "up and coming" now all of a sudden "unsafe" because these people are pissed that they're losing money and want a way out? Are their "working class" neighbors now "dangerous ghetto trash" because they're now stuck with them? Again, I didn't see the show, so I'm not saying that's the case. Just curious.

[dmarc117]

Safety is a very real issue, in addition to my wife's mental health and the future of our marriage. I've tried every possible way of putting a bright face on it. We spend weekends out of town. We put in a home theater in the basement so we can blast a movie to drown out the packs of screaming kids and barking dogs outside. We tell ourselves it will get better. The reality is that our day to day existence is pure unmitigated hell, and I fear my wife is headed for clinical depression.

 

Consider that corporations do it all the time -- the 60 Minutes piece talked about commercial real estate and housing projects that tanked, and the owners (large firms) walked away. At the end of the day it's a business decision.

 

 

if you do choose this route, try to get approved for another mortgage at your next house before walking away. your credit will be scarred for a few years. or sign a lease if you will be renting before you pull the plug.

[matt770]

See Gran Torino

 

Aesthetically, it's not far off. In most neighborhoods one might be proud of having the nicest landscaping; here, I add up all the money I spent on trees, shrubs and perennials, plus hundreds of hours of my own labor, and I feel like an idiot. A lot of my neighbors are content to mow the weeds once a month, if they mow at all. My efforts to improve the inside and outside of this property have only succeeded in making it the nicest house in a ghetto. I could stay here 20 years and maybe break even on my investment if I'm lucky.

 

The upside of walking away is that I can dig up the trees, roses and other good stuff worth keeping, and take it to our new place or sell it off.

[ljbrun]

Have you looked at this: <a href="http://makinghomeaffordable.gov/" target="_blank">http://makinghomeaffordable.gov/</a>

 

My first wife is in a similar situation as far as being upside down on the mortgage for her condo. However, while she had some neighbor problems, there was no fear for her safety. She ended up renting out the condo (almost one year now). While her rental doesn't cover the mortgage, condo fee etc. She moved into a favorable living situation which has allowed her to make good progress reducing her debt. Could renting out the property work for you?

 

Safety is a very real issue, in addition to my wife's mental health and the future of our marriage...

If this is the case. I'd suggest finding a way to get out as soon as you can even if it means damaging your credit. Credit is minor compared to those things.

 

I really hope this works out for you soon. It must feel like a real nightmare. Good luck with your decision.

Edited May 10, 2010 by ljbrun

[geeteebee]

I just watched the 60 minutes piece and the young family there pisses me off. The husband says he feels no responsibility for this, which is exactly what is wrong with the country today. The banks don't have any responsibility, the home buyers don't have any, the government doesn't. So who does? And the owners in the piece were not concerned about their safety, so I assume you are talking about your personal situation.

 

So, to answer the question at hand. If you signed a contract, then you need to abide by the contract or be prepared to suffer the consequences under the contract. With that said, if you are ready to suffer those consequences and it still makes sense to walk away, then so be it. The young couple in Arizona has analyzed it and according to the state law, lenders there can't go after other assets. If that is the case, then lenders were probably pretty stupid to lend if they didn't require substantial downpayments. I just wish someone would nut up and say, "I screwed up. I was stupid and it was no one else's fault but since I am so far under water I would only be compounding the error by continuing to pay on this mortgage."

 

It sounded like there were only 8-9 states that have similar laws about preventing lenders from going after other assets so I would make darn sure that I knew what I was risking prior to taking this path.

 

Nobody made you buy the house. Nobody made the bank lend you money. Both parties are taking risks and there should be provisions in the contract if one party doesn't uphold its side of the deal. Damages should be no more or no less than what either party signed on to. It is a contract and frankly I don't know what mine says about default. I guess that's the stuff you only think about reading when it is too late.

[matt770]

Certainly family comes first and, though I marked that I would ride it out because that's what you do, I can't say what I'd do if I truly feared for mine and my wife's safety and didn't not have the money to float the difference to sell and move.

 

My main argument for riding it out is that's what people need to start doing. Riding it out. People acting like the sky is falling is going to make the sky fall. People asked me why I opened a new place in '09 and I explained that I did because that's what I do for a living. I open restaurants. If people keep doing what they do, provided what they do is a good thing, that's the best chance we have of making this whole thing come around.

 

So, without having seen the show, I have to wonder. Was the neighborhood that was "up and coming" now all of a sudden "unsafe" because these people are pissed that they're losing money and want a way out? Are their "working class" neighbors now "dangerous ghetto trash" because they're now stuck with them? Again, I didn't see the show, so I'm not saying that's the case. Just curious.

 

The people in the 60 Minutes piece were just way upside down on their mortgages and decided to bail. One couple in AZ paid $400K and their house is now worth $85K.

 

When I referred to ghetto trash, I was talking about my own new neighbors that have moved in after the last few respectable original homeowners cut their losses. We've reached a tipping point where this is no longer a place that young professional couples would consider for a first home, even if there is a recovery.

 

The reason I am considering this seriously now, is there is a very real possibility that it will be 7-10 years before we could sell and break even. Within that period I would expect to replace the water heater, furnace, and possibly the A/C. While that isn't a big deal in itself, it's "just what you do" as you put it, when you factor in the quality of life, I can't justify the money thrown down a sinkhole when we're this miserable. It is hard to fathom two more years here, never mind 5, 7, or 10.

 

My wife and I make good money, probably top 5% percentile in the country, and we're ashamed to invite people over.

[Azazello1313]

you act like it's totally an either/or....either walk away from your debt, or stay put and subject your family to danger. have you looked into a short sale at all?

[Azazello1313]

When I referred to ghetto trash, I was talking about my own new neighbors that have moved in after the last few respectable original homeowners cut their losses. We've reached a tipping point where this is no longer a place that young professional couples would consider for a first home, even if there is a recovery.

...

My wife and I make good money, probably top 5% percentile in the country, and we're ashamed to invite people over.

 

but it was just fine four years ago? sorry man, but to me it sounds like some of this is rationalization on your part.

[darin3]

I'm sure I'm not the only one, matt... but would you mind telling us the name of the street you live on, or the neighborhood? I'd absolutely love to see what you're talking about. It really sounds like a lot of neighborhoods here in Austin - to a point. If you're uncomfortable posting that kind of info and don't mind PMing it to me, that'd be cool.

[westvirginia]

you act like it's totally an either/or....either walk away from your debt, or stay put and subject your family to danger. have you looked into a short sale at all?

 

This is my thought as well. Tell the bank what you're about, that you're contemplating sending them some "jingle mail" and see what they'll do to help. Worth a shot. If they don't want to work with you, make a payment 10/20/30 days late to get their attention. They'll help.

[detlef]

The people in the 60 Minutes piece were just way upside down on their mortgages and decided to bail. One couple in AZ paid $400K and their house is now worth $85K.

 

When I referred to ghetto trash, I was talking about my own new neighbors that have moved in after the last few respectable original homeowners cut their losses. We've reached a tipping point where this is no longer a place that young professional couples would consider for a first home, even if there is a recovery.

 

The reason I am considering this seriously now, is there is a very real possibility that it will be 7-10 years before we could sell and break even. Within that period I would expect to replace the water heater, furnace, and possibly the A/C. While that isn't a big deal in itself, it's "just what you do" as you put it, when you factor in the quality of life, I can't justify the money thrown down a sinkhole when we're this miserable. It is hard to fathom two more years here, never mind 5, 7, or 10.

 

My wife and I make good money, probably top 5% percentile in the country, and we're ashamed to invite people over.

Not sure what a short sale is but I'm sure someone who makes decent money can figure out a way to cut your losses and move on without bailing on the mortgage. So, you can't justify throwing your own money into a house that needs work in a place that you now no longer want to live but you can justify bailing on a debt and perpetuating one of the problems that plague our country because of a quality of life issue? Sorry, but that sounds really, really selfish. You're worried about breaking even? Too bad, dude.

[TimC]

Even the Mortgage Bankers Association had no problem with a short sale a few months ago on their property.

 

I can gua-ran-tee you they didn't pay off the difference.

 

[Chief Dick]

Not sure what a short sale is but I'm sure someone who makes decent money can figure out a way to cut your losses and move on without bailing on the mortgage. So, you can't justify throwing your own money into a house that needs work in a place that you now no longer want to live but you can justify bailing on a debt and perpetuating one of the problems that plague our country because of a quality of life issue? Sorry, but that sounds really, really selfish. You're worried about breaking even? Too bad, dude.

 

Why don't you just kick him while he's down?

[Square]

Another vote for short sale-ish type move. If you bought it for 280 and would have to take a 40k hit to get out, I'd think about it. If you seriously make top 5 percent money, I don't see how the price of a nice car is going to keep your family in your current spot. Move out, and get an apartment and save everything you can for 2 years. if your wife seriously considers it to be that bad, there has to be an area should could live in (and get by with less space) while you pocket the difference between your old mortgage and your current rent to recover the $$. I'd do a lot of research before considering "walking off". It just smells like something will come back to bite you in the arse. Good luck bro.

[detlef]

Why don't you just kick him while he's down?

By explaining why I don't agree with what he seems serious about doing? Sorry, but I don't buy his rationale. Certainly he must have expected someone to take issue with this whole deal when he posted and then defended the notion.