i_am_the_swammi Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 We live in a neighborhood with a bunch of other families...the kids have known each other since they were born, and many of the families living in our immediate vicintiy have been here as long as we have...12-14 years, since the neighborhood was built. As the kids have gotten older, and their freedoms have widened, many kids from other neighborhoods now make they way into ours, and vice versa. My oldest son is now allowed to ride his bike to some of the closer neighborghoods, and his friends visit us regularly.And as the kids have gotten into middle school, many who were friends out of proximity have now developed other closer friendships with kids they have more in common with....natural progression as they are exposed to different people. A couple doors up from us is a kid who has been nothing but trouble since he hit 3rd grade. He's an only child, and rather than be given a set of rules to follow, his parents give him lots of rope. He has been allowed to remain home by himself since 4th grade (9 years old), as they both work...and during those times alone, he often gets himself into a variety of situations that while not criminal, they are certainly menacing (shooting at kids with his bb gun, riding his dirtbike over people's lawns, etc.). When his parents have been confronted in the past, they pass off this behavior as "boys being boys". There is no talking to them about any of their son's actions. As you can imagine, now that he is older, the crowd he is attracted to is very similar. And everyday after school, his house has become the hangout for all these kids who like to engage in the same sort of activity: foul language, namecalling, BMX biking, intimidating the other younger kids on the street (of which there are dozens)....its gotten to the point where my son goes to a different neighborhood to hang out, rather than deal with these kids. And my younger kids always say they get teased or laughed at by this group whenever they ride by. They are getting pretty nervous, and often times would rather just play inside when this group of kids is outside. One of our other neighbors has a boy who is 11...a couple years younger than most of the boys that hang with the trouble pack. He apparently was wanting to fit in, and rode his bike over to the group to hang out. He knew a couple of the kids in the group, but a couple of the others he did not know. About 30 minutes after being there, he was sitting on a couch in their garage while the other kids were talking and laughing, at that point, two of the older kids dropped their pants, and started rubbing themselves (front and back) on the 11-year olds face. This went on for about 1 minute while the rest of the group was laughing, and while the younger kids was crying and yelling "stop". The kid finally was able to get up and get home, at which point his parents saw him crying. He told them the whole story, and which point his dad freaked. He went over the kids who actually did it, and told them that if they ever came near his son again, there would be hell to pay. When the parents of one of the offenders got home, he went to them with the story....and got the old "its just boys being boys" retort. The dads almost came to blows, and some ugly things were said...at which point, the dad of the 11-year old said he was close to calling the police to report the incident, and the other dad said "go right ahead", almost taunting him to do it. As you can imagine, it has created a very uncomfortable atmosphere around the neighborhood. We have spoken to the parents of the 11-year old, and kinda side with them in terms of believing there needs to be some sort of repercussion for this behavior. I am not sure if their actions are criminal, but I tell you what....if they had done the same thing to a girl, there would be no question it would border on sexual harrassment. The boys who did it say they were just joking around, that they do it all the time amongst themselves....ad if thats the case, and they do it to each other, whatever...just don't do it to kids that don't want it done to them! So what say ye? Should they just drop the issue, and keep their kid away from the group? Or should they call the police? I know they'd feel terrible if they let it slide, and this same thing happened again to another kid, or God forbid, to a female neighbor/student. If they did call the police, would it be considered a sex crime? Would doing it out of lack of action by their parents do irreparable damage to the bullies, if indeed they were doing it just to be funny? FWIW, these same kids were outside the very next day, acting in the same bullying ways....apparently no lasting action/punishment was handed down by their parents, no apology to the 11-year old. I think that is what is further infuriating my neighbors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brentastic Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 IMO, this is a serious issue and needs to be dealt with as such. Call the police, file a report. This is most definitely a form of sexual abuse. If I was the dad of the 11 year old and the dad of the offender blew it off, you can bet your sweet ass it would have come to blows. It's just amazing to me how many parents turn a blind eye when it's their kid who is causing trouble. It seems like there are too many of these half-ass parents these days. They need to be dealt with if you ask me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt770 Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 Definitely criminal and pretty damn disturbing. The police and state's attorney need to be involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh 0ne Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 The kids are dirtbags because of their parents, which is blatantly obvious since no discipline was handed down after the incident. I don't know why you keep mentioning "if it was a girl"? It wasn't. Growing up we used to fart on each other, smack each other in the ass, an occasional nutkick, etc. We never would have considered doing this to a girl. That falls under the "boys will be boys" category. I don't think it's sexual abuse. I think it's behavior that should not be tolerated. Unfortunately, it's the parents job to enforce this, and since they obviously did not/will not, it becomes a much more difficult situation. If it happened to my kid, I would go put the fear of God into them myself. If it happened to someone else's kid, I would tell my kids to stay away. I don't think the cops will do dick, they're too busy dealing with Waterman and his OWS band of brothers. Just my 2 cents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrTed46 Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 Definitely criminal and pretty damn disturbing. The police and state's attorney need to be involved. +1 No question in my mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Beatings Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 I would absolutely 100% without hesitation call the cops and report this. Even if its a few days or even weeks later, this HAS to happen. Even the cops never do anything about it, the incident needs to be on record. This is just the beginning of much worse things to come. I would also see if there is a small local community paper in the area, and I would see if they would have any interest in reporting about local bullies turned sexual molesters. If the parents won't do jack about it, then put as much community pressure on that family as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westvirginia Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 (edited) The kids are dirtbags because of their parents, which is blatantly obvious since no discipline was handed down after the incident. I don't know why you keep mentioning "if it was a girl"? It wasn't. Growing up we used to fart on each other, smack each other in the ass, an occasional nutkick, etc. We never would have considered doing this to a girl. That falls under the "boys will be boys" category. I don't think it's sexual abuse. I think it's behavior that should not be tolerated. Unfortunately, it's the parents job to enforce this, and since they obviously did not/will not, it becomes a much more difficult situation. If it happened to my kid, I would go put the fear of God into them myself. If it happened to someone else's kid, I would tell my kids to stay away. I don't think the cops will do dick, they're too busy dealing with Waterman and his OWS band of brothers. Just my 2 cents. Sorry Hugh, gotta disagree here. There's a big difference in doing it to "your gang" and doing it to a kid two years younger who plainly didn't like it done to them. The bottom line is, if there are no consequences to the action, the behavior will not change. The parents aren't providing the consequences they should, so before a girl gets raped by one of these boys at 15 or so, I'd do my damndest to get someone to do something about it. I'd start with the cops or maybe child services. And no, I really don't think it's hyperbolic Hugh. I'd bet your parents would have kicked your ass for bullying a kid or molesting one like that, right (that didn't want it done)? Well, these kids parents won't, and THAT's the difference. THAT's the problem. For these kids there are no consequences. Edited to change "are" to "aren't" Edited November 9, 2011 by westvirginia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt770 Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 You said there were dozens of younger kids around. Probably most if not all of them are being bullied by this much smaller group of older boys or at the very least are aware of the situation and are afraid. So, time to organize...get them all together and create a little army. When the older kids are outside one day stirring up trouble, send battalions of the younger ones over in waves, each kid armed with a dozen eggs. Fire as many as possible and run. When the older kids give chase, here comes the next battalion with more eggs, and now the bastards are ambushed are greatly outnumbered. Position another battalion to come in from the rear so the older kids are surrounded. Fire eggs at will until all eggs are exhausted, then charge and beat the living crap out of them, then urinate/defecate on them to really drive the point home. When the parents complain about their eggy, bloody child encrusted with human waste, oh well, boys will be boys... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Country Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 CAll cops. Get a report filed. Even if they can't do anything right away, it is on file. If there is a future incident, cal lcops again, get it reported and continue applying pressure to the police to act on it. Sounds like there is already disharmony in the neighborhood, though most are against this behavior and don't see it as "boys being boys", so get the cops involved before the activities escalate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh 0ne Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 Sorry Hugh, gotta disagree here. There's a big difference in doing it to "your gang" and doing it to a kid two years younger who plainly didn't like it done to them. The bottom line is, if there are no consequences to the action, the behavior will not change. The parents aren't providing the consequences they should, so before a girl gets raped by one of these boys at 15 or so, I'd do my damndest to get someone to do something about it. I'd start with the cops or maybe child services. And no, I really don't think it's hyperbolic Hugh. I'd bet your parents would have kicked your ass for bullying a kid or molesting one like that, right (that didn't want it done)? Well, these kids parents won't, and THAT's the difference. THAT's the problem. For these kids there are no consequences. Edited to change "are" to "aren't" I don't disagree. Like I mentioned, I totally think these kids need to be disciplined, but the people that should do it after the fact at that age based on the incident are the parents, and they've chosen not to. The cops won't do anything. As I also mentioned, if it was done to my kid, I would confront the older kids myself and make sure they had to go home and change their underwear after. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i_am_the_swammi Posted November 9, 2011 Author Share Posted November 9, 2011 Hugh's response is exactly the predicament the parents of the boy face right now. While the mom is out of her mind angry, the dad remembers times when he was younger (high school and college) when he and his friends would hover over a sleeping roommate and fart on them, ass-slap, snap towels....all the stuff that I can remember us doing too. Where these kids giving his son some sort of initiation into their crew to see how he'd handle it? Further, if they call the police and nothing is done (if its deemed not criminal), then what? Is their son ostracized worse for telling mommy and daddy? is he further teased? Do they come of as over-reacting to other parents in the neighborhood? The further problem is that the father of one of the kids who did the act came to the house of 11-year old, looking for the dad. The dad of the teased kid thought it was to talk things out....but instead, the other dad immediately got angry and said "If you ever threaten my son again, I will rip your head off". They went at it back and forth (verbally), but no punches were thrown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whomper Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 This needs to be reported immediatley and the Dad calling a front and back tea bag "boys being boys" on a kid begging them to stop needs to be pummeled beyond recognition Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brentastic Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 This is also another reason I will have both my son and daughter (3 & 18months currently) in martial arts/boxing when they turn 7 or so. This is something I wish my parents had done with me when I was younger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i_am_the_swammi Posted November 9, 2011 Author Share Posted November 9, 2011 This needs to be reported immediatley and the Dad calling a front and back tea bag "boys being boys" on a kid begging them to stop needs to be pummeled beyond recognition That's pretty much where I stand....the kid who's house it happened at has been a thorn to my son for years, so I didn't want our dislike of their family to taint our opinion of this situation. Even though he wasn't one of the offenders, he was laughing and teasing while it was happening. The whole thing is just ugly, and indeed needs to be reported...they just don't want to draw a permanent line in the sand for which they'll later regret. No question getting the cops involved, and potentially interviewing the kids of 6 different families, would be something that would last as long as everyone lived here. But in light of everything currently in the news, they are leaning towards erring on the side of caution. I don't know the parents of the kid who did it real well....they live way down the street, and we only know them to see them. But I have heard the dad is a total burrito....and his son, it appears, is taking right after him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whomper Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 (edited) This is also another reason I will have both my son and daughter (3 & 18months currently) in martial arts/boxing when they turn 7 or so. This is something I wish my parents had done with me when I was younger. I am with you on this and I really wish my daughters would go but they just dont want to eta: what sucks even worse is my 10 year old has knock out power in both hands. i wish she could properly harness it and unleash if it was absolutely necessary Edited November 9, 2011 by whomper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whomper Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 I agree with what Hugh said about the boys being boys stuff , dont get me wrong , but what Hugh described was stuff I can remember doing . I dont ever recall me or any of my friends dropping our draws and rubbing our peppers on a kid. It is straight up disturbing and sexually abusive. It really could have a terrible and traumatic effect on the kid it happened to. Imagine how humiliated he must have felt . It sucks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brentastic Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 I am with you on this and I really wish my daughters would go but they just dont want to eta: what sucks even worse is my 10 year old has knock out power in both hands. i wish she could properly harness it and unleash if it was absolutely necessary This is my one fear - that they just won't be into it. Really can't force them into extra-curricular activities, imo. Although I will try to convey 'why' I want them involved in self defense courses. My son appears to be a good athlete, great balance, quickness etc... BUT he doesn't show any competitiveness yet (he is only 3). Not sure when kids develop that. I know I was timid when I was young and didn't really get competitive until 3rd-4th grade and now I'm one of the most competitive people of all my friends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 I am with you on this and I really wish my daughters would go but they just dont want to eta: what sucks even worse is my 10 year old has knock out power in both hands. i wish she could properly harness it and unleash if it was absolutely necessary the truth is that most kids that go to martial arts classes don't even use it when the time comes....martial arts is over-rated imo... boxing classes would work better and would also help defense as well as the kids will be able to see what is coming due to preparation...while martial arts will probably get them laughed at even if they do use it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh 0ne Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 the truth is that most kids that go to martial arts classes don't even use it when the time comes....martial arts is over-rated imo... boxing classes would work better and would also help defense as well as the kids will be able to see what is coming due to preparation...while martial arts will probably get them laughed at even if they do use it... Obviously you never saw the Karate Kid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brentastic Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 the truth is that most kids that go to martial arts classes don't even use it when the time comes....martial arts is over-rated imo... boxing classes would work better and would also help defense as well as the kids will be able to see what is coming due to preparation...while martial arts will probably get them laughed at even if they do use it... This is actually a good point. My fear with boxing is that the sparring means the children will actually take repeated blows to the head whereas martial arts (at least I think) is a more passive sparring - at least when hits to the head are concerned. But I do think you're right in that boxing holds a little more real-world relevance in terms of self defense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whomper Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 This is my one fear - that they just won't be into it. Really can't force them into extra-curricular activities, imo. Although I will try to convey 'why' I want them involved in self defense courses. My son appears to be a good athlete, great balance, quickness etc... BUT he doesn't show any competitiveness yet (he is only 3). Not sure when kids develop that. I know I was timid when I was young and didn't really get competitive until 3rd-4th grade and now I'm one of the most competitive people of all my friends. Exactly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CowboyGal2011 Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 Boys will be boys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 call the cops 100% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bier Meister Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 CAll cops. Get a report filed. Even if they can't do anything right away, it is on file. If there is a future incident, cal lcops again, get it reported and continue applying pressure to the police to act on it. Sounds like there is already disharmony in the neighborhood, though most are against this behavior and don't see it as "boys being boys", so get the cops involved before the activities escalate. Agree. Create a paper trail. Show a history of the do0shbaggery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiegie Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 Is there a way to get the police involved without necessarily having the jackass boys get put on a "sex offender" list? I do strongly agree that the problem needs to be addressed, I am just not sure what the full repercussions are. If the parent had been much more willing to be a man and take control of his son, I am guessing that calling the police probably wouldn't have been an option that was pursued. But that wouldn't change the fact that an assault (sexual or not) had taken place. Do we choose to punish the child more harshly if the parent is an a-hole compared to if the parent had been a stand-up man? Is that just? I don't know. I do know that both the punk and his dad should get the crap beat out of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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