godtomsatan Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 I believe that everyone deserves the right to be forgiven, even if it's only by themselves. People do things that make sense to them in context, and don't make sense when portrayed out of context. So, let's say someone is in a loveless marriage with a partner who has a terminal type disease. Let's say cancer. Is it fair for us to judge the person married to the sick spouse when they ask for a divorce? How about if the decision to ask for the divorce occurs while the significant other is in the hospital receiving treatments? What about marriages that are based on a partnership, but not on sex? Is it fair for us to judge the person who feels they have needs that can't be met within their marriage if they go outside of it to take care of these needs? What if they are open with their spouse about it, and take steps to try and make the marriage work, while not compromising what they "need"? Either situation, to me, is purely based on context. I'm not in either marriage, I don't know what it's like for the individuals to be in either marriage, and I don't see the point in judging people for their actions, especially when there is all kinds of actions that can be portrayed in a variety of lights without actually being the one making the decisions. What if the person doing the divorcing and the stepping-out are the same person and these are events occurring 15 years apart from one another. Does your opinion change on the second scenario? What would be your opinion of the person knowing that they did these things in their lifetime, once 30 years ago, and again 15 years ago? Is it hypocritical of the first paragraph of this post to ultimately feel like the person in question sounds like kind of a sleazebag? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delusions of grandeur Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Adultery and abandonment aside, I'm still not voting for Newt Gingrich.... Na seriously, I think everyone deserves a second-chance if they're truly serious about turning a new leaf, but when there appears to be a pattern, it only creates more doubt that a person has actually changed or is of good moral fiber.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rajncajn Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Deserving of a second chance, yes. Everyone deserves a second chance if they are truly willing to change, but that doesn't preclude them from being judged. I would personally have a very difficult time ever trusting someone who abandoned a loved one. [Tebow]Jesus says to forgive, not to forget[/Tebow] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huzz Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 So, let's say someone is in a loveless marriage with a partner who has a terminal type disease. Let's say cancer. Is it fair for us to judge the person married to the sick spouse when they ask for a divorce? How about if the decision to ask for the divorce occurs while the significant other is in the hospital receiving treatments? My uncle through marriage to my mom's twin sister did this exact thing to my aunt about 5 years ago. She was in treatment for breast cancer when her husband decided it would be a good time to tell her he was having an affair and wanted a divorse. I obviously don't know all the circumstances of their marriage but my understanding was that the affair was a total shock and that she thought they were in a loving marriage for 20 years. To this day his 2 daughters and 1 son including numerous grandchildren have not spoken to their father / grandfather since he revealed his affair and wanted divorse. Me personally I have forgiven him. I don't see him often but when I do I have no problems speaking with him and catching up to see how he is doing. I guess maybe it was not close enough to be affected the same or I just feel that until you walk in the shoes of another person you can't really begin to understand how they felt and what they were thinking was best for themselves. I would hope that those kinds of decisions are not made with out a lot of sleepless nights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brentastic Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 I don't think any human has the right to judge another. And the fact that this practice of judging has become rampant and mainstream (you witness it endlessly here on the Huddle boards) really chaps my ass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt770 Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 It takes two people to make a marriage work, and usually two people to make it fail too. I suppose sometimes one partner is completely at fault, but then the question becomes why did the "perfect" partner pick someone so flawed? People choose partners for reasons not readily apparent. If that underlying motive happens to be dysfunctional, such as an abused daughter shacking up with a wife-beater, the results are devastating. Not all relationships are that obvious in their dysfunction, but they can still be quietly destructive when played out over years and decades. There isn't enough info to make a "judgment" about either partner. I think very often people think they know their own standards and limits in certain areas but never had any idea what challenges life would present. Likewise, many of us are quick to judge without ever having one iota of understanding of what another person has endured. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huzz Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 really chaps my ass. i think they make a cream for that....consult your doctor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huzz Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 that's why they make assless chaps. They sure do... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westvirginia Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 All chaps are assless, otherwise they'd be PANTS! It's not judging Gingrich to say you won't vote for him on this basis. If he isn't trustworthy in marriage vows, will he really be trustworthy in campaign promises? It's not that I think him unfit to govern because of it, but I can see the point others might make. I certainly don't look down my nose at him for it, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delusions of grandeur Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) I don't think any human has the right to judge another. And the fact that this practice of judging has become rampant and mainstream (you witness it endlessly here on the Huddle boards) really chaps my ass. That's much easier to say than to practice... Would you agree that the ruling elite might not be so evil, able to justify their actions by seeing themselves as knowing better what humanity needs, in part because it's the only culture they've ever been a part of? No probably not, because you have your own beliefs about "their" agenda, your judgements if you will... We all do... When you break it down, I think you find that people at their core are genuinely good people, but desperation, corruption and of course environment can twist ideals and behavior greatly. Further, as much as we all want to believe we have free-will (I do), the only tangible things we can point to are experiences, environment, genetics, etc., that have an undeniably great influence in the type of people we become.... But that's all philosophical mumbo-jumbo. Point being, I think you want to see yourself as above what everyone is subject to, but we all have justifications, right or wrong, for what we do, and we all judge others, particularly those that we view as "outsiders" from our own groups we identify with. It's human-nature... Edited January 20, 2012 by delusions of granduer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isleseeya Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Tough call ..i personally believe in the sanctity of marriage , and that marriage is a union of two people who become like one ...most of all the words for better or for worse and in sickness and in health mean a great deal ...They are the cornerstone of the wedding vows imho ...i think it actually means that in the example you gave , the husband should have stayed with the wife till the end . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joessfl Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 All chaps are assless, otherwise they'd be PANTS! Why is it that someone makes an obvious observation, and it makes total sense, but I still wind up laughing hysterically? Nice one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yukon Cornelius Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 it had nothing to do with politics . oh wait there was that gary hart thing, bill clinton thing..... seems to be a pattern Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Gingrich the serial adulterer and all-around loose cannon, Romney the slimy insincere vulture, Paul the gibbering loon and Santorum with his obsession about other people's sex lives............what a great field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yo mama Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Gingrich the serial adulterer and all-around loose cannon, Romney the slimy insincere vulture, Paul the gibbering loon and Santorum with his obsession about other people's sex lives............what a great field. Just think of the potential candidates the GOP thought was *unfit* to run. It boggles the mind. Sometimes I think we'd be better off if we just drew names out of a hat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Just think of the potential candidates the GOP thought was *unfit* to run. It boggles the mind. Sometimes I think we'd be better off if we just drew names out of a hat As long as we could get 200,000,000 names in the hat, I'd be on board with that. We could borrow a big enough one from Rick Perry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big John Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 As long as we could get 200,000,000 names in the hat, I'd be on board with that. We could borrow a big enough one from Rick Perry. According to this, there are less than 163,000 people 35 or older, a constitutional requirement. Then subtract those not born on the US or spent less than 14 years here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brentastic Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 That's much easier to say than to practice... Would you agree that the ruling elite might not be so evil, able to justify their actions by seeing themselves as knowing better what humanity needs, in part because it's the only culture they've ever been a part of? No probably not, because you have your own beliefs about "their" agenda, your judgements if you will... We all do... When you break it down, I think you find that people at their core are genuinely good people, but desperation, corruption and of course environment can twist ideals and behavior greatly. Further, as much as we all want to believe we have free-will (I do), the only tangible things we can point to are experiences, environment, genetics, etc., that have an undeniably great influence in the type of people we become.... But that's all philosophical mumbo-jumbo. Point being, I think you want to see yourself as above what everyone is subject to, but we all have justifications, right or wrong, for what we do, and we all judge others, particularly those that we view as "outsiders" from our own groups we identify with. It's human-nature... It's one thing to be angry at a person or group of people - like my anger toward the elite - when those people are directly harming me or doing me wrong. I don't see that as judging, that's reacting to actions aimed directly toward me that are intended to hinder my ability to live my life as I wish. It's another thing entirely to look at another man's mistakes, bad decisions or what have you and make a judgement on his character and I think that's what the topic here is about - looking at someone elses mistakes that have no affect on me and judging them based on those actions. The actual word "judgement" basically means just having an opinion which is unavoidable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiegie Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I believe that everyone deserves the right to be forgiven, even if it's only by themselves. People do things that make sense to them in context, and don't make sense when portrayed out of context. So, let's say someone is in a loveless marriage with a partner who has a terminal type disease. Let's say cancer. Is it fair for us to judge the person married to the sick spouse when they ask for a divorce? How about if the decision to ask for the divorce occurs while the significant other is in the hospital receiving treatments? What about marriages that are based on a partnership, but not on sex? Is it fair for us to judge the person who feels they have needs that can't be met within their marriage if they go outside of it to take care of these needs? What if they are open with their spouse about it, and take steps to try and make the marriage work, while not compromising what they "need"? Either situation, to me, is purely based on context. I'm not in either marriage, I don't know what it's like for the individuals to be in either marriage, and I don't see the point in judging people for their actions, especially when there is all kinds of actions that can be portrayed in a variety of lights without actually being the one making the decisions. What if the person doing the divorcing and the stepping-out are the same person and these are events occurring 15 years apart from one another. Does your opinion change on the second scenario? What would be your opinion of the person knowing that they did these things in their lifetime, once 30 years ago, and again 15 years ago? Is it hypocritical of the first paragraph of this post to ultimately feel like the person in question sounds like kind of a sleazebag? I am appalled that you would begin a thread on a topic like that. (It) is as close to despicable as anything I can imagine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby's Hubby Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 either you love someone "til death do us part" or you don;t. If you don;t have the guts to ask for a divorce if in your heart you are not in love then that is the real moral issue. Why lie to someone about love? Not something to skirt around. To me love is black and white, when it comes to spending the rest of your life with someone who deeply trusts you to be honest with them. Scooby, I love you. I love waking up with you and going to bed with you. You are stuck with me forever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godtomsatan Posted January 21, 2012 Author Share Posted January 21, 2012 I am appalled that you would begin a thread on a topic like that. (It) is as close to despicable as anything I can imagine. You know where to complain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Neutron Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I don't believe that a person leaving their sick spouse for another lover could ever be justified. Even if no alternate lover was on the scene, divorce would be out of the question. Anyone driven to such action would be driven my selfishness, not morality. That's an observation, not judgement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Gingrich the serial adulterer and all-around loose cannon, I should point out that I've long believed sexual shenanigans to be irrelevant to political performance. I don't care where Newt puts his willy. I do think his hotheadedness would be an extreme liability as president though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skilly Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 We only get one chance at life on this earth....it is entirely up to ourselves to make the choices we feel will bring us happiness and fulfilment. People will judge you every day of your life for almost every decision you will make...it's up to us on how we choose to react to judgement. My thought is that people are entirely selfish and will do whatever it takes to better their situation...and if that means divorcing your sick spouse because you feel it will better your life, then who are we to say that is immoral? I don't think that would be the decision I would make, but I have to realize that it's possible for others to feel that way. Morality is an entirely subjective concept. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeeR Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 if that means divorcing your sick spouse because you feel it will better your life, then who are we to say that is immoral? I'd answer that, but clearly this is not about morality but really about politics so: Bush sucks Obama sucks the left sucks the right sucks blah about oil blah about citzenship blah war-monger blah blah blah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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