Could football die as a bigtime sport?

[Sunday Couch Potatoe]

Das Boot

[Ursa Majoris]

by and large I don't think there are that many people who actively follow both levels of the game with season tickets.

This is my impression too.

 

Season tickets for both college and NFL would mean two things - a lot of disposable money and several weekends with nothing but football. Most people want a bit more variety than that, however dedicated they might be.

[detlef]

I go to Washington games and I go to Seahawk games and I can tell you most definitely they are completely different crowds. Obviously, there is some crossover, but if it's more than 10% of the people at either game who have season tickets holders for both, I'd be shocked. Maybe it's a little different in Wisconsin for Badgers and Packers (technically, the Seahawks market consists of 3-5 other Division 1 football programs, and people travel a pretty fair distance for Hawks games), but by and large I don't think there are that many people who actively follow both levels of the game with season tickets.

 

My theory has always been, you have people who are college football fans, you have people who are NFL fans, and there's fans who don't give a Athena about the game on the field and are there for the tailgating.

It could simply come down to the % of people who can afford to do both. Neither of which is cheap. Not to mention the fact that you'd either have to devote basically the entirety of your weekend or not get a weekend "off" from spending the entirety of one of the days going to games.

 

That, however, does not mean you're not a participatory fan of both teams. Maybe you go in person to only one of them, but you do carve out the 3 hours the other day to watch the other. If you do that, you still count towards the numbers that feed the beast.

 

In general, I find it somewhat humorous at the degree to which people are so quick to dismiss the notion brought up in the article. Especially when they nitpick specific arguments. To me, it just seems like the guys are posing a possible theory and showing the ways it could theoretically play out. All of which are possible, even if they don't seem so right now. After all, if we've learned anything in the last 30 years, things change pretty damned quickly. The NBA was absolutely dead in the water in the late 70s, showing it's finals on tape delay late night. Imagine how low on the totem pole a sport would be in this day and age for that to be the case. By 1990, it was huge, and then it tanked again.

 

People explain that away by saying the product sucks. Funny, because the debate is raging on right now about that in the NFL now that they're trying to take big hits out of the game. That people don't like the product anymore or are liking it less and less. Which, of course, is a big dilemma for the sport because it puts them between a rock and a hard place. Trying to cover their ass legally and pissing off many die-hards in the process. If they're not careful, they could screw it up both ways. "Wimpify" it too much for many, and still not reduce the head injury issue enough to stay clear of lawsuits.

 

The entire agreement struck between the players and owners is predicated on getting more and more money out of the fans. And there's a chance that might not be a sustainable model. They can't even afford static fan support. They need increasing fan support. And that doesn't even take into account the main issue brought up in the article. That being, of liability.

[delusions of grandeur]

It could simply come down to the % of people who can afford to do both. Neither of which is cheap. Not to mention the fact that you'd either have to devote basically the entirety of your weekend or not get a weekend "off" from spending the entirety of one of the days going to games.

 

That, however, does not mean you're not a participatory fan of both teams. Maybe you go in person to only one of them, but you do carve out the 3 hours the other day to watch the other. If you do that, you still count towards the numbers that feed the beast.

 

In general, I find it somewhat humorous at the degree to which people are so quick to dismiss the notion brought up in the article. Especially when they nitpick specific arguments. To me, it just seems like the guys are posing a possible theory and showing the ways it could theoretically play out. All of which are possible, even if they don't seem so right now. After all, if we've learned anything in the last 30 years, things change pretty damned quickly. The NBA was absolutely dead in the water in the late 70s, showing it's finals on tape delay late night. Imagine how low on the totem pole a sport would be in this day and age for that to be the case. By 1990, it was huge, and then it tanked again.

 

People explain that away by saying the product sucks. Funny, because the debate is raging on right now about that in the NFL now that they're trying to take big hits out of the game. That people don't like the product anymore or are liking it less and less. Which, of course, is a big dilemma for the sport because it puts them between a rock and a hard place. Trying to cover their ass legally and pissing off many die-hards in the process. If they're not careful, they could screw it up both ways. "Wimpify" it too much for many, and still not reduce the head injury issue enough to stay clear of lawsuits.

 

The entire agreement struck between the players and owners is predicated on getting more and more money out of the fans. And there's a chance that might not be a sustainable model. They can't even afford static fan support. They need increasing fan support. And that doesn't even take into account the main issue brought up in the article. That being, of liability.

Agreed... Just look at baseball, where steroids ended up destroying the integrity of the sport it built up, along with the strike, the arms race the Yankees started, and their BS ratings ploy to decide WS homefield advantage with an exhibition game.... I was a HUGH baseball fan, but after all of that, I now have a hard time even watching the Braves that much anymore, let alone teams I have little interest in for 160 games.

 

More recently, I skipped watching the large majoirty of college and bowl games this year, still bitter about 2007 where UGA had their turn at being one the victims of the unfair bowl system.

 

As you said, rule changes could certainly contribute to a lack of interest in the NFL, particularly if they compound it with some of their other money-grabbing propositions, like an extended regular season, more expansion teams in more markets, and I believe there's also been talk about more playoff seeds as well.

 

So yes, if they water down the sport and just try to suck up as much money as they can, then no, no sport is infallible when people say enough is enough.

 

(That said, with college and high school football traditions often coinciding NFL interest, I don't see the NFL having the same fate as other sports, unless they really screw things up.)

[stevegrab]

I vote for Beer Pong!!

 

 

Real beer pong with padels and all, or this wimpy modern version where the players just throw the ball with their hands.

beer pong with paddles

 

When I first played it back in the late 80s early 90s we actually used paddles and it resembled ping pong as described above.

[stevegrab]

Its two economists view of something that may happen to football. Based on other very different things (demise of boxing and horse racing and how some companies in the top levels no longer exist).

 

Could it happen, sure. Is it likely, no I don't think so. What would we all watch if it were gone, me personally more basketball both college and pro, and maybe I'd give hockey a try.

 

 

As far as college vs. pro football, sure there is some overlap. But I know many who are diehard college fans and spend all day Saturday watching games (parts of numerous games, whole game of favorite team etc.) Similarly I know some like that with the NFL (I am one) who watch every game they can see. Some of those hardly watch the other, while a smaller percentages watches lots of both.

[jackshi17]

Flag Football

[matt770]

Fixed

 

(*)(*)

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( Y )

This gave me a semi. There is something seriously wrong with me.

[matt770]

Agreed... Just look at baseball, where steroids ended up destroying the integrity of the sport it built up, along with the strike, the arms race the Yankees started, and their BS ratings ploy to decide WS homefield advantage with an exhibition game.... I was a HUGH baseball fan, but after all of that, I now have a hard time even watching the Braves that much anymore, let alone teams I have little interest in for 160 games.

Exactly where I am with baseball. When I was a kid I would watch the Mets religiously every night, now I watch the postseason if the Phillies are in it because my wife is a fan. That time of year it can be thrilling to watch but I no longer take the sport as a whole seriously. I mean, is the commish still a freaking team owner? Do they have a salary cap yet? The sport really is a joke, unless I suppose if you're a fan of one of the rich teams, then it's probably fun to watch them destroy the small market guys.

[Sunday Couch Potatoe]

Exactly where I am with baseball. When I was a kid I would watch the Mets religiously every night, now I watch the postseason if the Phillies are in it because my wife is a fan. That time of year it can be thrilling to watch but I no longer take the sport as a whole seriously. I mean, is the commish still a freaking team owner? Do they have a salary cap yet? The sport really is a joke, unless I suppose if you're a fan of one of the rich teams, then it's probably fun to watch them destroy the small market guys.

I do agree that it has become somewhat of a joke but I am still a diehard fan of my team.

 

I have watched just about every inning of every game the Giants have played for many many years and it was pretty damn fun watching my mid market team finally make a run to the championship taking out some goliaths along the way.

[Ditkaless Wonders]

This gave me a semi. There is something seriously wrong with me.

 

 

I still say she has scoliosis.

[godtomsatan]

It could simply come down to the % of people who can afford to do both. Neither of which is cheap. Not to mention the fact that you'd either have to devote basically the entirety of your weekend or not get a weekend "off" from spending the entirety of one of the days going to games.

 

That, however, does not mean you're not a participatory fan of both teams. Maybe you go in person to only one of them, but you do carve out the 3 hours the other day to watch the other. If you do that, you still count towards the numbers that feed the beast.

 

Yes, it does come down to the economics of it all, and yes, there are plenty of folks who carve out time for both college and pro. However, I would still contend that there is a large segment of people who call themselves "football fans" first and foremost who have a distinct preference of one level of play vs. the other. I don't know if any studies have been done, or what, but let's just say that this contention on my part goes towards the idea that the *sport* of football is strong enough across many different levels to make its nature much different than baseball, boxing, or horse racing of the early 20th Century.

 

The entire agreement struck between the players and owners is predicated on getting more and more money out of the fans. And there's a chance that might not be a sustainable model. They can't even afford static fan support. They need increasing fan support.

 

Unlike baseball, basketball, and hockey, the NFL has hardly even made a dent into international markets and it's still the biggest, baddest, and most powerful sporting interest in the world (outside of maybe FIFA and the IOC).

[tazinib1]

. I don't know if any studies have been done, or what, but let's just say that this contention on my part goes towards the idea that the *sport* of football is strong enough across many different levels to make its nature much different than baseball, boxing, or horse racing of the early 20th Century.

 

 

Let's do a poll shall we? Even though it will be a small sample size, you can get a rough idea.

[godtomsatan]

Let's do a poll shall we? Even though it will be a small sample size, you can get a rough idea.

 

Here's this. Shows a slight difference in the % of people claiming to be fans of each sport. Different by age, race, gender, and region. Obviously, people were allowed to answer more than one.

[BeachBum]

Exactly where I am with baseball. When I was a kid I would watch the Mets religiously every night, now I watch the postseason if the Phillies are in it because my wife is a fan. That time of year it can be thrilling to watch but I no longer take the sport as a whole seriously. I mean, is the commish still a freaking team owner? Do they have a salary cap yet? The sport really is a joke, unless I suppose if you're a fan of one of the rich teams, then it's probably fun to watch them destroy the small market guys.

 

Unless you are also into Fantasy Baseball! AH, now there is a reason to care about baseball!

[Brentastic]

Replace helmets with leather helmets and you will eliminate most concussions. Concussions happen because these athletes are reckless in their pursuit - and they are reckless because they are all padded up. Take away the protective helmet and leave a man's head exposed, he's going to be less reckless and more careful about going full speed in pursuit.

[godtomsatan]

Replace helmets with leather helmets and you will eliminate most concussions. Concussions happen because these athletes are reckless in their pursuit - and they are reckless because they are all padded up. Take away the protective helmet and leave a man's head exposed, he's going to be less reckless and more careful about going full speed in pursuit.

 

I say replace the players with robots.

[matt770]

Replace helmets with leather helmets and you will eliminate most concussions. Concussions happen because these athletes are reckless in their pursuit - and they are reckless because they are all padded up. Take away the protective helmet and leave a man's head exposed, he's going to be less reckless and more careful about going full speed in pursuit.

I would also like to see the games broadcast in black & white, and a much greater emphasis placed on lateraling the ball. Also the players' legs should appear to move in double-time, and there should be ragtime piano music in the background to replace announcers.

[darin3]

I would also like to see the games broadcast in black & white, and a much greater emphasis placed on lateraling the ball. Also the players' legs should appear to move in double-time, and there should be ragtime piano music in the background to replace announcers.

[bushwacked]

[Ursa Majoris]

 

there should be ragtime piano music in the background to replace announcers.

That would be a step in the right direction.

[detlef]

Unlike baseball, basketball, and hockey, the NFL has hardly even made a dent into international markets and it's still the biggest, baddest, and most powerful sporting interest in the world (outside of maybe FIFA and the IOC).

Unlike baseball, basketball, soccer, and hockey, there might not be much of an international market for the NFL. The NFL could be one of those things that Americans dig and others, not so much. When you think about the game itself, it's actually quite flawed. We eat it up because we've known it our whole lives, but I could completely see not getting the allure at all if you didn't grow up with it. It could be the entertainment equivalent of Vegemite. Something that a certain culture just devours and everyone else wonders what the hell they see in it.

 

I think of my wife's view of the game. She thinks it's truly the most idiotic thing going. She laughs at the obese guys in the trenches. She laughs at the plays that go nowhere "Great, just run the ball right into the middle where everyone is, that'll get you somewhere." She's annoyed by all the over-the-top bravado after every other play and the fact that it takes 20 minutes to play the last 3 minutes of the game. Here's the thing, it doesn't matter if she's missing something, because that's not her problem. She could be the European sports fan wondering, "what the hell do you see in this game?"

 

"What does that little guy do?" "He's in charge of kicking FGs" "That's it? Nobody else on the team can do that? Wait a minute, that's not the same guy who just kicked the FG. They have another guy for that as well?" "Well some teams have one guy who can kick the ball short but accurate and another who can kick the ball long but not as accurate." "So, you have two guys who do eff-all besides stand around and wait until you need to kick a ball and, depending on how far or straight, one of them goes on the field and does it." "Well, at least two actually, because there's also a guy who just comes out to complete another kind of kick, where he catches the ball and kicks like a soccer goalie." "Brilliant"

 

It's still my favorite sport and, despite the fact that I dig the World Cup when it comes around and can enjoy the occasional soccer match when the guys at work tune it in at the bar between shifts, it's still not my thing. I don't go looking for it. But I could completely understand people also not going looking for football either.

 

Also, it may be a bit Americentric to assume that the NFL is a more powerful sporting interest than the Premier League or other European leagues. If anything, it's bigger simply because there's more people in the US than there is in England or Italy or what not. But that's already built in to what they've already earned in terms of viewership.

[Scooby's Hubby]

I would also like to see the games broadcast in black & white, and a much greater emphasis placed on lateraling the ball. Also the players' legs should appear to move in double-time, and there should be ragtime piano music in the background to replace announcers.

or, you could go the other way and have the broadcast "tech-no'd out" with 3-D and DJ music. The players could have crazy pads with spikes and QB's could have zoom lenses on their helmets. Players could have microphones. Ref's could throw smoke bombs instead of yellow flags. The audience could have sling shots and hand cannons to launch stuff at the players. You could make it something out of Mad Max beyond the Thunderdome. Just think of what the cheerleaders could look like

[chester]

or, you could go the other way and have the broadcast "tech-no'd out" with 3-D and DJ music. The players could have crazy pads with spikes and QB's could have zoom lenses on their helmets. Players could have microphones. Ref's could throw smoke bombs instead of yellow flags. The audience could have sling shots and hand cannons to launch stuff at the players. You could make it something out of Mad Max beyond the Thunderdome. Just think of what the cheerleaders could look like

 

They called that the XFL

[chester]

Here's this. Shows a slight difference in the % of people claiming to be fans of each sport. Different by age, race, gender, and region. Obviously, people were allowed to answer more than one.

 

Probably not a big deal, but that poll is 8 years old.