Austin Collie

[CaptainHook]

I really thought Austin Collie would have a solid year in 2012. He was over a year and a half removed from his last concussion against the Jaguars. He was having a great training camp. He had moved to the outside, and was no longer in the slot, where he would take more abuse.

 

Last night, he made a nice catch. Ike Taylor closed and wrapped him up. As Collie was heading to the ground, Larry Foote came in from behind and put a forearm/elbow to the back of his head. It was clearly intentional, but also clearly legal. Cornerbacks and linebackers are trained to come in and give a shot as the player is going down. They used to deliver that blow with their helmets, but now it's a forearm. It worked. It knocked the ball loose, and the catch was overturned on replay.

 

If it is another concussion, that's now at least three for Collie, and by some reports four (I'm not sure the one in New England was every confirmed as a concussion), I think it's time he retires. The play last night was one that happens ten or more times per game. It was not out of the ordinary. But if he can't handle those kind of hits, he needs to give it up and think about his life after football. Local news has been running stories about former Colts and their health problems after retirement. They have run stories about Jeff Herrod and Bernard Whittington. Both in their forties. Both have trouble sleeping, trouble with concentration, trouble with mood swings. The culture of concussions is changing, for the better, and the Colts have been very careful with Collie. But sometimes, it's just no longer worth the risk. Hang 'em up, man.

[bostonsoxandy]

Collie just isn't suited for the NFL, it is obvious to see watching from an outsider's perspective. Same thing goes for Chris Rainey in that game, they just aren't built to take those types of hits. It's a shame with Collie though as he has always shown glimpses of potential stardom at times..

[SpeedRacer]

Agreed 100%. I know that he's young and doesn't want to think about it, but he has a family to consider.

[CaptainHook]

Collie just isn't suited for the NFL, it is obvious to see watching from an outsider's perspective. Same thing goes for Chris Rainey in that game, they just aren't built to take those types of hits. It's a shame with Collie though as he has always shown glimpses of potential stardom at times..

 

 

I don't know . . . if he never takes that hit in Philly, I'm not sure any of this is ever an issue. That was a brutal hit that I'm not sure many WR could take. Follow it up with another brutal hit at home against Jacksonville. And in-between, he may have had a slight concussion at New England.

 

Like I said in my thread during the game, the NFL is a tough business. Defenders attack your injuries.

[detlef]

I don't know . . . if he never takes that hit in Philly, I'm not sure any of this is ever an issue. That was a brutal hit that I'm not sure many WR could take. Follow it up with another brutal hit at home against Jacksonville. And in-between, he may have had a slight concussion at New England.

 

Like I said in my thread during the game, the NFL is a tough business. Defenders attack your injuries.

 

Yeah, we're talking about his head here. When I hear "not built for the NFL" it typically means too skinny and frail. But your head? That just seems sort of flukey.

 

And, yes, dude needs to hang it up. You can spend the rest of your life nursing a bum knee or something. But a messed up head?

[MrTed46]

I agree. I hope he retires because I can't keep seeing him going to locker room with a concussion. He is the type of player you root for.

Edited August 20, 2012 by MrTed46

[Shorttynaz]

I don't know . . . if he never takes that hit in Philly, I'm not sure any of this is ever an issue. That was a brutal hit that I'm not sure many WR could take. Follow it up with another brutal hit at home against Jacksonville. And in-between, he may have had a slight concussion at New England.

 

Like I said in my thread during the game, the NFL is a tough business. Defenders attack your injuries.

 

Greg Williams knows all about this..

[CaptainHook]

Mild concussion for Collie. He will continue to play when cleared.

[CaptainHook]

Collie's agent disputes that Collie has a concussion . . .

[electricrelish]

Mild concussion for Collie. He will continue to play when cleared.

 

What's the source for this?

[CaptainHook]

What's the source for this?

 

 

Pagano at his 5 pm presser.

[CaptainHook]

 

“He came in and felt really good today, which was positive for us,” Pagano said. “We’ll just take it day to day with him, but we’ll be smart.”

 

 

 

“Player safety is first and foremost. We’re going to always err on the side of caution,” said the coach, who added that Collie will undergo thorough evaluation and a battery of tests to determine his condition and progress.

 

 

 

Austin Collie's player rep says it's "premature" to say Collie has officially suffered another concussion. "It would be premature to conclude anything at this juncture," Collie's rep said. "(Collie) is going to go through the normal protocols." Coach Chuck Pagano said Collie had been diagnosed with a concussion in a Monday conference call, but was optimistic about his status, terming him "day-to-day."

 

 

Edited August 20, 2012 by CaptainHook

[Big John]

Pagano at his 5 pm presser.

 

 

day to day

[gilthorp]

As I stated before, he'll make one heckuva sideline reporter soon.

[electricrelish]

I wonder why his agent is saying that the reports of a concussion are premature.

[ajh2]

Sorry, Collie, it is time to retire.

 

It is truly sad that a good player who had the chance to become great will never become great.

[stevegrab]

I wonder why his agent is saying that the reports of a concussion are premature.

 

 

PR move I suspect.

[CaptainHook]

An interesting read . . .

 

 

 

As soon as Pittsburgh Steelers linebacker Larry Foote’s forearm hit Austin Collie’s helmet Sunday night and the Colts wide receiver was slow to get up, we knew what coach Chuck Pagano was going to say on Monday’s conference call.

 

 

 

 

Before Pagano confirmed Collie had suffered another concussion — and an explanation is forthcoming on why this counts as a fourth in about 22 months — I interviewed a specialist to develop a more informed opinion on an undeniable hot-button topic in today’s NFL, where consolidated lawsuits filed against the league list 2,000 former players as plaintiffs.

 

 

 

 

The immediate fan reaction from many couldn’t have been louder: Collie should retire. Fans voiced this before the fourth-year pro had reached the Heinz Field locker room for an examination. Fans expressed themselves on the in-game live chat as well as via Twitter, Facebook and in emails. Colleague Bob Kravitz wrote a column today about how the Colts should waive Collie for his own good and send a message that they won’t put at-risk players back on the field.

 

 

 

 

But concussions are complicated.

 

 

 

 

That’s a simplified summation of a chat with Dr. Vernon B. Williams, medical director of the Kerlan-Jobe Center for Sports Neurology in Los Angeles. While he doesn’t have any connection to Collie, Williams has been on staff for 15 years and has had more than his share of consultations with professional and college athletes about brain trauma injuries.

 

 

 

 

“Once you’ve had a concussion, you’re at a higher risk, it’s easier to have a second concussion or another concussion,” said Williams, 45. “There’s going to be tremendous variability from individuals in terms of how much more susceptible they are, but there is this so-called injury induced vulnerability, the theory being that once the brain has been injured it’s easier for it to be re-injured.

 

 

 

 

“What we have a hard time doing at this point is predicting who those people are, those people who may be at higher susceptibility or higher risk.”

 

 

 

 

People read that and quickly surmise, well, Collie fits that description.

 

 

 

 

But then this gets cloudy.

 

 

 

 

“There are people who can have multiple concussions and, in between, everything is normal and they seem to kind of reset and they don’t have this progressive worsening and duration or severity,” Williams said. “On the other hand, there are others who do. It’s hard to kind of predict. You kind of have to look at the pattern of the individual athlete.”

 

 

 

 

So while it makes perfect sense to say Collie should think of himself and his family and quit, we presume his previous tests showed an ideal recovery. He didn’t suffer a concussion in 16 games last year. And if he’s able to come back 100 percent again, he’s going to want to play. That’s why the Colts list him day-to-day. They want to see how he responds. Pagano reiterated today that Collie came to the complex “feeling great” Monday.

 

 

 

 

Williams says if a player needs more recovery time with each successive concussion, that’s a trend that can’t be ignored.

 

 

 

 

“What we have to look at is, number one, does it seem like the concussions are happening more easily?” Williams said. “That can sometimes be concerning because that picture is the one that tells us, ‘Hey, maybe this person is very susceptible and these concussions are adding up.’ The other piece of information we’re interested in is whether or not the symptoms of each concussion seem to be getting progressively worse each time or lasting longer and longer each time.”

 

 

 

 

If Collie comes back quickly from this one, then what? A 26-year-old athlete is giving no indication that his brain has suffered permanent damage — although we know too well the accounts of other former players suffering later in life. How do you tell him he’s still too much of a risk? Talk about a tough call.

 

 

 

 

What we know is Collie suffered his first concussion on Nov. 7, 2010. Two more ended that season early. We remember the sickening images of him laying motionless on the field. While previous Colts management insisted the one at New England was just “concussion-like symptoms,” Williams says the evolution of understanding concussions means that sub-concussive injuries are a factor, too. Play with the words any way you want, it’s still brain trauma.

 

 

 

 

“Our thinking has evolved tremendously over the last five, 10, 15 years related to this issue of concussions,” Williams said. “Probably, if you polled professional athletes 10 years ago, ‘How many concussions have you had?’ the answers would be quite different because we didn’t even count certain things we count now. Before, people used to think you had to be knocked out or don’t count it if you kind of got your bell rung or you kind of got it dinged. Now we’re saying, ‘No, no, no, that counts.’

 

 

 

 

“This is a science in evolution and because of that I think it’s critical we educate people as much as possible, bring them along with us, the more we learn, the more we understand about the process, the more we’ve got to share that information with all stakeholders. That means athletes, that means parents, that means trainers, team physicians, school administrators, league officials, legislators, everyone.”

 

 

 

 

If you want to hear nothing but quiet, ask an NFL player how many concussions he’s had. Former Colts tight end Dallas Clark had his share, but would never divulge how many. Asking that question basically killed the interview.

 

 

 

 

That’s because football players have an innate tough-guy mentality. It’s as old as the game itself. As an old colleague used to say, “You have to be a bit crazy to play in the NFL.” Players convince themselves they can overcome anything and get back on the field. They are motivated to take care of their families for life. Beyond the money, there’s the fame that goes with it and, strange as it might sound given the price that could be paid, most have a genuine love of the game. It’s what they were born to do, they believe. They accept the risk.

 

 

 

 

“There is a concern for that (tough-guy mentality) and that’s why we’re shedding so much more light on that issue at this time,” Williams said. “That’s why everybody is being more cautious, particularly with adolescent athletes because their brains are still in the process of development. They’re not being paid to play, but they still sometimes take on this kind of gladiator mentality and think, ‘Well, I’ll shake it off’ or ‘I’ll walk it off,’ because that’s what they see in the pros.”

 

 

 

 

If there’s another obvious point that can’t be overstated, it’s that Collie and other players run the risk of problems later in life. We’ve seen the headlines about former players with problems. I’ve interviewed a couple who believe their brains are permanently damaged. They can’t remember something or somebody when asked. Memory loss is just one of the many problems associated with their transitions to life after the NFL.

 

 

 

 

“There is emerging evidence to support that concept, that if people have multiple mild traumatic brain injuries that they could have consequences of a chronic neuro-degenerative nature,” Williams said. “We’ve seen it for years in boxing and other contact sports.”

 

 

 

 

If Collie has problems later in life, will he be the next former player to say this wasn’t worth it? Former Colts defensive end Bernard Whittington was unsure about that question. He said it depended on the day.

 

 

 

 

Like concussions, it’s complicated.

 

 

 

 

 

from indystar.com

 

 

Edited August 21, 2012 by CaptainHook

[CaptainHook]

Austin Collie was a full go at practice today and will start.

[hollywood_69]

yea we should take bets on if he will finish the game or not. I say no way

[Delicious_bass]

An interesting read . . .

 

 

 

As soon as Pittsburgh Steelers linebacker Larry Foote’s forearm hit Austin Collie’s helmet Sunday night and the Colts wide receiver was slow to get up, we knew what coach Chuck Pagano was going to say on Monday’s conference call.

 

 

 

 

Before Pagano confirmed Collie had suffered another concussion — and an explanation is forthcoming on why this counts as a fourth in about 22 months — I interviewed a specialist to develop a more informed opinion on an undeniable hot-button topic in today’s NFL, where consolidated lawsuits filed against the league list 2,000 former players as plaintiffs.

 

 

 

 

The immediate fan reaction from many couldn’t have been louder: Collie should retire. Fans voiced this before the fourth-year pro had reached the Heinz Field locker room for an examination. Fans expressed themselves on the in-game live chat as well as via Twitter, Facebook and in emails. Colleague Bob Kravitz wrote a column today about how the Colts should waive Collie for his own good and send a message that they won’t put at-risk players back on the field.

 

 

 

 

But concussions are complicated.

 

 

 

 

That’s a simplified summation of a chat with Dr. Vernon B. Williams, medical director of the Kerlan-Jobe Center for Sports Neurology in Los Angeles. While he doesn’t have any connection to Collie, Williams has been on staff for 15 years and has had more than his share of consultations with professional and college athletes about brain trauma injuries.

 

 

 

 

“Once you’ve had a concussion, you’re at a higher risk, it’s easier to have a second concussion or another concussion,” said Williams, 45. “There’s going to be tremendous variability from individuals in terms of how much more susceptible they are, but there is this so-called injury induced vulnerability, the theory being that once the brain has been injured it’s easier for it to be re-injured.

 

 

 

 

“What we have a hard time doing at this point is predicting who those people are, those people who may be at higher susceptibility or higher risk.”

 

 

 

 

People read that and quickly surmise, well, Collie fits that description.

 

 

 

 

But then this gets cloudy.

 

 

 

 

“There are people who can have multiple concussions and, in between, everything is normal and they seem to kind of reset and they don’t have this progressive worsening and duration or severity,” Williams said. “On the other hand, there are others who do. It’s hard to kind of predict. You kind of have to look at the pattern of the individual athlete.”

 

 

 

 

So while it makes perfect sense to say Collie should think of himself and his family and quit, we presume his previous tests showed an ideal recovery. He didn’t suffer a concussion in 16 games last year. And if he’s able to come back 100 percent again, he’s going to want to play. That’s why the Colts list him day-to-day. They want to see how he responds. Pagano reiterated today that Collie came to the complex “feeling great” Monday.

 

 

 

 

Williams says if a player needs more recovery time with each successive concussion, that’s a trend that can’t be ignored.

 

 

 

 

“What we have to look at is, number one, does it seem like the concussions are happening more easily?” Williams said. “That can sometimes be concerning because that picture is the one that tells us, ‘Hey, maybe this person is very susceptible and these concussions are adding up.’ The other piece of information we’re interested in is whether or not the symptoms of each concussion seem to be getting progressively worse each time or lasting longer and longer each time.”

 

 

 

 

If Collie comes back quickly from this one, then what? A 26-year-old athlete is giving no indication that his brain has suffered permanent damage — although we know too well the accounts of other former players suffering later in life. How do you tell him he’s still too much of a risk? Talk about a tough call.

 

 

 

 

What we know is Collie suffered his first concussion on Nov. 7, 2010. Two more ended that season early. We remember the sickening images of him laying motionless on the field. While previous Colts management insisted the one at New England was just “concussion-like symptoms,” Williams says the evolution of understanding concussions means that sub-concussive injuries are a factor, too. Play with the words any way you want, it’s still brain trauma.

 

 

 

 

“Our thinking has evolved tremendously over the last five, 10, 15 years related to this issue of concussions,” Williams said. “Probably, if you polled professional athletes 10 years ago, ‘How many concussions have you had?’ the answers would be quite different because we didn’t even count certain things we count now. Before, people used to think you had to be knocked out or don’t count it if you kind of got your bell rung or you kind of got it dinged. Now we’re saying, ‘No, no, no, that counts.’

 

 

 

 

“This is a science in evolution and because of that I think it’s critical we educate people as much as possible, bring them along with us, the more we learn, the more we understand about the process, the more we’ve got to share that information with all stakeholders. That means athletes, that means parents, that means trainers, team physicians, school administrators, league officials, legislators, everyone.”

 

 

 

 

If you want to hear nothing but quiet, ask an NFL player how many concussions he’s had. Former Colts tight end Dallas Clark had his share, but would never divulge how many. Asking that question basically killed the interview.

 

 

 

 

That’s because football players have an innate tough-guy mentality. It’s as old as the game itself. As an old colleague used to say, “You have to be a bit crazy to play in the NFL.” Players convince themselves they can overcome anything and get back on the field. They are motivated to take care of their families for life. Beyond the money, there’s the fame that goes with it and, strange as it might sound given the price that could be paid, most have a genuine love of the game. It’s what they were born to do, they believe. They accept the risk.

 

 

 

 

“There is a concern for that (tough-guy mentality) and that’s why we’re shedding so much more light on that issue at this time,” Williams said. “That’s why everybody is being more cautious, particularly with adolescent athletes because their brains are still in the process of development. They’re not being paid to play, but they still sometimes take on this kind of gladiator mentality and think, ‘Well, I’ll shake it off’ or ‘I’ll walk it off,’ because that’s what they see in the pros.”

 

 

 

 

If there’s another obvious point that can’t be overstated, it’s that Collie and other players run the risk of problems later in life. We’ve seen the headlines about former players with problems. I’ve interviewed a couple who believe their brains are permanently damaged. They can’t remember something or somebody when asked. Memory loss is just one of the many problems associated with their transitions to life after the NFL.

 

 

 

 

“There is emerging evidence to support that concept, that if people have multiple mild traumatic brain injuries that they could have consequences of a chronic neuro-degenerative nature,” Williams said. “We’ve seen it for years in boxing and other contact sports.”

 

 

 

 

If Collie has problems later in life, will he be the next former player to say this wasn’t worth it? Former Colts defensive end Bernard Whittington was unsure about that question. He said it depended on the day.

 

 

 

 

Like concussions, it’s complicated.

 

 

 

 

 

from indystar.com

 

 

 

It is an interesting topic and certainly without easy answers. With as many former players as there are having health issues and suing the NFL, a guy like Collie is evidently willing to roll the dice. Makes me wonder how many of the guys suing today would have ignored warnings about long term effects of head injuries even if they had received them while they were playing. I'd be willing to bet a significant amount would've scoffed at the notion they needed to miss games or possibly retire early to avoid issues down the road. Now that they're struggling, though, they want the League held accountable.

 

NFL is in a tough spot. Getting sued for not doing enough in the past and now (if they try to step in and save players from themselves) they will be painted the bad guy there, too. Concussions can be so different on a case by case/player by player basis that it would be extremely difficult to implement an effective policy that covers them. As long as there are still players who will do anything to get/stay on the field, the NFL is going to be in a "damned if they do, damned if they don't" situation IMO.

[loaf]

I wish the best for him but he's on my DND list.

[gilthorp]

They boys on ESPN just said he's inactive for Week 1.

[piratesownninjas]

They boys on ESPN just said he's inactive for Week 1.

Up goes Reggie Wayne.

[ajh2]

Actually, I think this hurts Wayne a lot. I expect he is going to have a long day at the office. Who else is Luck going to throw to?