stevegrab Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 (edited) The officiating crew of that game was to be assigned to week 13 SNF, but were just "demoted" to a regional Sunday game instead as a result of actions made during this game. The NFL itself made the decision to reassign that crew, but they did not say it was because of this. That is speculation from a reporter, who may be right, but not a known fact. And considering it is Mike Florio of PFT (the original NFL rumor mill) I'm not sure how much I trust it. All this does is move these guys to less wildly televised games, so fewer people see their mistakes and complain. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/12/01/pete-morellis-crew-yanked-from-week-13-sunday-night-game/ Edited December 1, 2015 by stevegrab Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilthorp Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 Sounds like stevegrab needs to invest in an automated testing tool. Punishing developers. That is rich. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 Sounds like stevegrab needs to invest in an automated testing tool. Punishing developers. That is rich. Automated testing tool? Never heard of such a thing, but then I admit to not being up on the latest stuff software development trends, since my development environment is rather old and very much in a small niche. Not even sure the team working on our more modern software product (which is all MS Windows, SQL, .net etc) uses such a thing. We have a very small staff and a very mature product. The developers do a lot of testing, then our supervisor tests some too. Then we release to test sites early, and we have monthly tune-ups with any fixes, some fixes we can deliver immediately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 If software developers were punished for bugs then I suspect employees at Microsoft would not be fun people to be around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilthorp Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 Developers should never test...and testers should never develop. Come on stevegrab. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boy Named Suh Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 I admit to knowing next to nothing about any of it, and was just using it as an example. Even if it doesn't hold up technically, I think the point is valid that there should be more oversight and defined consequences for bad officiating. I was glad to see that the squad who worked that game was publically "demoted", but i think a week off with no pay would have been a little more effective. Do they really care which game they work? Supposedly, they are all graded after every game, but then what? What happens to the ones with the lowest grades? Are they fired? Are they all put on one squad and assigned only to Thursday night games? There needs to be more transparency and accountability. Who are the guys in the control center? Is it just Roger Goodell in front of a bunch of TVs with a red phone? We should know all their names and what their score was for the game that week, so we can play daily fantasy refs, and bet the over/under on the amount of bad calls there are. Exaggeration, sure, but they should be held accountable more considering the impact they have on games. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Developers should never test...and testers should never develop. Come on stevegrab. Sorry to keep going off topic with this, but depends what you mean for testing. I add a new feature or make a fix in the code, I HAVE to test it to know if it works, and if not fix it so I'm not turning in junk. That is the testing I do mostly. We are small as I said and don't have some massive testing strategy or plan for our software. We just don't have the time and resources. Kind of like rewiring something or rebuilding a motor, you turn it on and make sure it works right. I run the program to see that it does what I intended (and maybe see that nothing else broke). I admit to knowing next to nothing about any of it, and was just using it as an example. Even if it doesn't hold up technically, I think the point is valid that there should be more oversight and defined consequences for bad officiating. I was glad to see that the squad who worked that game was publically "demoted", but i think a week off with no pay would have been a little more effective. Do they really care which game they work? Supposedly, they are all graded after every game, but then what? What happens to the ones with the lowest grades? Are they fired? Are they all put on one squad and assigned only to Thursday night games? There needs to be more transparency and accountability. Who are the guys in the control center? Is it just Roger Goodell in front of a bunch of TVs with a red phone? We should know all their names and what their score was for the game that week, so we can play daily fantasy refs, and bet the over/under on the amount of bad calls there are. Exaggeration, sure, but they should be held accountable more considering the impact they have on games. Fair enough, just strange how people comment on things like that without knowing about it. So if the refs do bad you want to punish them with a week off no pay, how do you do that? Who officiates the game in their places? There are only 16 crews and 16 games, unless their is a bye they all have games that week. I would like to see them do better, and see the league do more to make them better. I don't watch a lick of college football, do their officials not make a lot of mistakes too? The game has gotten faster, the rules more complicated and the media and fans more attentive to it all. The grading determines who works in the playoffs, I cannot recall if those are all-star crews or if the full crew with the best grades get those. Roger Goodell is not likely to be in the control center deciding on calls for a game, that is the job of the head of officials Dean Blandino and his people. One interesting thing I read (maybe here) is that some think a part of the problem is Blandino was never an on field official, others that held that job before him were. And one of them even went back to working on field after being the boss. Ok now I guess you're just being silly with the "we need to know their names and their scores...." part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boy Named Suh Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 (edited) Ok now I guess you're just being silly with the "we need to know their names and their scores...." part. Not at all. Why shouldn't their grades be posted every week? What we are getting is, Whoops, they screwed up again. Sorry about that. What we need is transparency and accountability. I want to be able to go back and see the plays that they got marked down on so that i can be more informed as to what is expected of them, mostly so I can be a more informed complainer. It might help cut down on the complaining if we could actually access the report cards, as it would be tangible proof that they are in fact being held responsible. Right now, we just have to take their word for it. I definitely was being stupid in regards to daily fantasy refs...that's all we need...gambling on crooked refs. Edited December 3, 2015 by Boy Named Suh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Not at all. Why shouldn't their grades be posted every week? What we are getting is, Whoops, they screwed up again. Sorry about that. What we need is transparency and accountability. I want to be able to go back and see the plays that they got marked down on so that i can be more informed as to what is expected of them, mostly so I can be a more informed complainer. It might help cut down on the complaining if we could actually access the report cards, as it would be tangible proof that they are in fact being held responsible. Right now, we just have to take their word for it. I definitely was being stupid in regards to daily fantasy refs...that's all we need...gambling on crooked refs. Does any sport post grades of their officials from each game? Sorry but I think you are expecting too much here. Yes being a more informed complainer, that would be great. Like you know readnig up a little on things so you don't say stupid stuff like "Who are the guys in the control center? Is it just Roger Goodell in front of a bunch of TVs with a red phone?" The more info you (other fans and the media) would have the more you would complain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boy Named Suh Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Does any sport post grades of their officials from each game? Sorry but I think you are expecting too much here. Yes being a more informed complainer, that would be great. Like you know readnig up a little on things so you don't say stupid stuff like "Who are the guys in the control center? Is it just Roger Goodell in front of a bunch of TVs with a red phone?" The more info you (other fans and the media) would have the more you would complain. Whoa there...I thought that was pretty funny picturing Roger Goodell on the other end of all the reviews. Sorry I questioned the sanctity of the review process. Just because they don't post the officials scores in other sports doesn't mean they shouldn't. Just means they don't. Things change all the time. It's called progress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Whoa there...I thought that was pretty funny picturing Roger Goodell on the other end of all the reviews. Sorry I questioned the sanctity of the review process. Just because they don't post the officials scores in other sports doesn't mean they shouldn't. Just means they don't. Things change all the time. It's called progress. Whatever, contact Goodell and voice your complaints. You're being entirely unreasonable in what you want, and you're never go to get it so just keep complaining. Of course you thought that bit was funny, there is part of the problem, you're more interested in trying to be funny than really discussing the issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boy Named Suh Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 (edited) Whatever, contact Goodell and voice your complaints. You're being entirely unreasonable in what you want, and you're never go to get it so just keep complaining. Of course you thought that bit was funny, there is part of the problem, you're more interested in trying to be funny than really discussing the issue. Watch that blood pressure, brother. There are some things in life that are so ridiculous that they beg to be laughed at, and the current state of officiating in the NFL is one of them. Just because you think think I'm being unreasonable doesn't make it true. I happen to think that you are being unreasonable in your acceptance of the current system and your complete dismissal of a call for more oversight and transparancy. At least I'm thinking about ways to make the officiating as accountable when they make a mistake as the players and coaches are week in and week out. What are you doing other than shooting down my ideas as ridiculous and unreasonable? Not exactly discussing the issue. But go ahead and tell us more about working with computers. That was relevant. Edited December 3, 2015 by Boy Named Suh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Def. Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 I'm confused, how will publishing the grade reports to the public better the system? Just seems this transparency would more likely make fans feel more entitled then they already do (and are) and as mentioned lead to more whining. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boy Named Suh Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 (edited) I'm confused, how will publishing the grade reports to the public better the system? Just seems this transparency would more likely make fans feel more entitled then they already do (and are) and as mentioned lead to more whining. In my opinion, it will add a level of accountability that does not exist now. Right now, we don't know what the oversight committee is telling them week in and week out regarding their performance. We sit back and speculate about the job they do, but if we could actually see the report cards that they are being given, at least we would know that they are being held accountable for missed calls, bad calls, good calls, etc. You call it whining, I call it questioning. When these guys have so much impact on the game, I don't feel that it is unreasonable to expect them to be accountable for each and every call that they make. I understand that the slew of new rules that they are being asked to enforce is not their fault, but at they very least, the rules should be enforced consistently, and that hasn't happened this year. How can increased transparency and accountability be considered a bad thing to anyone who wants the game to be as well called as possible? Sure, these guys have a hard job, but it is still their job. Sure, there is more opportunity to criticize them based on slo-mo instant replay, but unless we are going to get rid of that, they have to be able to operate in that world, without increased technology being an excuse for them being above reproach. If they don't want to be under the microscope, they should find a different line of work. If they can't call the games consistently, then more training is needed. If they continue to make mistakes, they should be replaced. Without transparency, we will never know if any of that is happening, which is the situation that we have now. Edited December 3, 2015 by Boy Named Suh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boy Named Suh Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 This is just an idea, and I haven't heard anyone else suggest it, and since I have no influence anywhere, I don't think you have to worry too much about it actually happening, but at least I'm trying. I hear a lot of complaining but no solutions from anyone except from the people who like it the way it is. Their solution is to stop complaining and let the guys do their jobs. I don't like the current system, but can't really complain without also presenting a possible solution. If you have a better idea, I'm all ears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darin3 Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 (edited) Refs should be full-time employees of the NFL. It's a joke that they're not. The fact that they're just guys with "real jobs" that happen to ref a multi-billion dollar sport once a week is a complete joke. Like frickin' rec league flag football refs. That is the atrocity here. They should be full-time, year-long employees of the league. They should have constant training exercises and should be forced to have 20/20 vision and pass skills tests every year. Look how much cash the sport brings in. Are you telling me you can't find 100 qualified individuals that would want to do this year-round? You'd work games August-ish until January-ish, and then in your "down time" would develop younger refs, have time off, etc. Pay them a good wage, and they wouldn't need "regular jobs" at all. This is the problem. Edited December 3, 2015 by darin3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowboutthemCowboys Posted December 3, 2015 Author Share Posted December 3, 2015 Refs should be full-time employees of the NFL. It's a joke that they're not. That they're just guys with "real jobs" that happen to ref a multi-billion dollar sport once a week. Like frickin' rec league flag football refs. That is the atrocity here. They should be full-time, year-long employees of the league. They should have constant training exercises and should be forced to have 20/20 vision and pass skills tests every year. Look how much cash the sport brings in. Are you telling me you can't find 100 qualified individuals that would want to do this year-round? You'd work games August-ish until January-ish, and then in your "down time" would develop younger refs, have time off, etc. Pay them a good wage, and they wouldn't need "regular jobs" at all. This is the problem. +1. Sing it sister ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boy Named Suh Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 (edited) Refs should be full-time employees of the NFL. It's a joke that they're not. That they're just guys with "real jobs" that happen to ref a multi-billion dollar sport once a week. Like frickin' rec league flag football refs. That is the atrocity here. They should be full-time, year-long employees of the league. They should have constant training exercises and should be forced to have 20/20 vision and pass skills tests every year. Look how much cash the sport brings in. Are you telling me you can't find 100 qualified individuals that would want to do this year-round? You'd work games August-ish until January-ish, and then in your "down time" would develop younger refs, have time off, etc. Pay them a good wage, and they wouldn't need "regular jobs" at all. This is the problem. Absolutely for this! Pay them the league minimum for players at least. They have more effect on the game than most players making the league minimum. Maybe then, they would have something to lose if they got replaced for too many mistakes. Of course, that would lead to a official's union, which would probably remove any semblance of accountability and remove any ability to replace officials based on performance. Doesn't change the fact that they should be properly compensated for the job that we are demanding they do. Edited December 3, 2015 by Boy Named Suh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big John Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Of course, that would lead to a union, which would probably remove any semblance of accountability and remove any ability to replace officials based on performance. They have a union. Recall 2012 replacement refs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darin3 Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Yeah, that's even more dumb-ness. How do they have a union if they're part-time wage earners? Are they even employees of the NFL? I honestly feel this is an easy fix. If they were full-time employees of the NFL then we could start holding them to a higher standard. But then again they'd have crazy in-week and off-season training so a lot of these issues wouldn't be issues anymore. And if they continue to suck, they'd have someone to take their place and they can go back to being airline pilots, accountants and pharmacists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boy Named Suh Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 They have a union. Recall 2012 replacement refs. Yeah, that was great, huh? Almost makes you appreciate these guys. Well, I guess the Union explains why we can't get any transparency or accountability. I'm probably on some watchlist now for even suggesting it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Def. Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 In my opinion, it will add a level of accountability that does not exist now. Right now, we don't know what the oversight committee is telling them week in and week out regarding their performance. We sit back and speculate about the job they do, but if we could actually see the report cards that they are being given, at least we would know that they are being held accountable for missed calls, bad calls, good calls, etc. You call it whining, I call it questioning. When these guys have so much impact on the game, I don't feel that it is unreasonable to expect them to be accountable for each and every call that they make. I understand that the slew of new rules that they are being asked to enforce is not their fault, but at they very least, the rules should be enforced consistently, and that hasn't happened this year. How can increased transparency and accountability be considered a bad thing to anyone who wants the game to be as well called as possible? Sure, these guys have a hard job, but it is still their job. Sure, there is more opportunity to criticize them based on slo-mo instant replay, but unless we are going to get rid of that, they have to be able to operate in that world, without increased technology being an excuse for them being above reproach. If they don't want to be under the microscope, they should find a different line of work. If they can't call the games consistently, then more training is needed. If they continue to make mistakes, they should be replaced. Without transparency, we will never know if any of that is happening, which is the situation that we have now. I'm sure there is transparency, its just not to us. Nor do I think it should be. Society has its own problems to sort out, so really are they a good judge of how a ref/crew is performing? Not to mention are they going to point out the good things refs and crews are doing as well, or will the emphasis only be on the negative? +1 on full timers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boy Named Suh Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 (edited) I'm sure there is transparency, its just not to us. Nor do I think it should be. Society has its own problems to sort out, so really are they a good judge of how a ref/crew is performing? Not to mention are they going to point out the good things refs and crews are doing as well, or will the emphasis only be on the negative? +1 on full timers. You and I have a different definition of transparency. Transparency would be clear to all. Clear to a chosen few isn't transparency. You obviously think that the negative will be the focus of report cards being made public, and I can't argue with that, as our society is obsessed with bashing each other over the head with the negative and positive reinforcement is the exception, but I know that I personally would use it as a learning experience in regards to the responsibilities of the individual officials that I wasn't previously aware of, which would inevitably force me to appreciate them more, and be better informed when it does come to the complaints that I would make. I don't understand your thought process that because our society has issues, we shouldn't be allowed to have something to say about bad officiating...seems overly dramatic to me. Edited December 3, 2015 by Boy Named Suh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 (edited) Refs should be full-time employees of the NFL. It's a joke that they're not. The fact that they're just guys with "real jobs" that happen to ref a multi-billion dollar sport once a week is a complete joke. Like frickin' rec league flag football refs. That is the atrocity here. They should be full-time, year-long employees of the league. They should have constant training exercises and should be forced to have 20/20 vision and pass skills tests every year. Look how much cash the sport brings in. Are you telling me you can't find 100 qualified individuals that would want to do this year-round? You'd work games August-ish until January-ish, and then in your "down time" would develop younger refs, have time off, etc. Pay them a good wage, and they wouldn't need "regular jobs" at all. This is the problem. Curious, are college refs full time employees of the conferences or whoever employes them? I don't think it is a bad idea but say they NFL decides to do this, how many of the current 100 refs (your number its close) are going to stay on that job and not go back to being a lawyer, accountant, architect, whatever? So we'll start with massive turnover (already have about 20% with only about 5-6 years experience) and potentialy worse officails. This is just an idea, and I haven't heard anyone else suggest it, and since I have no influence anywhere, I don't think you have to worry too much about it actually happening, but at least I'm trying. I hear a lot of complaining but no solutions from anyone except from the people who like it the way it is. Their solution is to stop complaining and let the guys do their jobs. I don't like the current system, but can't really complain without also presenting a possible solution. If you have a better idea, I'm all ears. You're right they are just ideas, ones that are not likely to happen, and that really are not well thought out. I'm not going to try and come up with a solution, because it is fruitless for me to do so. I may as well just piss into the wind. I hate bad calls like others, the difference is I don't think its my job to fix the problem, to judge them, or that I need to know everything about them that their bosses do. Edited December 4, 2015 by stevegrab Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big John Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Curious, are college refs full time employees of the conferences or whoever employes them? No. And there is at least 1 NFL ref (114 G Seretore) who is also a Big 10 men's basketball ref. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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