Jets Trade up

[Caveman_Nick]

2 hours ago, LordOpie said:

that's cheap and worth it!

 

assuming they are very confident their franchise QB could be found there.

I'm of the thought that it's better for a team to build a pro-bowl OL instead of trying to find their franchise QB. Does anyone think that Dak Prescott is the next Tom Brady?

I think that a lot of ‘franchise quarterbacks’ have been ruined by lack of talent around them.  There’s not one player on the field.

 

People keep talking about Tom Brady.  Look at his development, his coaches, his teammates, the stability in the program, etc.  is he great?  Undoubtedly.  Did he work his rear end off to become great?  Without a doubt!  If he had been drafted to the Browns would he be the same player with the same accolades?  I don’t think so.

 

Nature, nurture, talent and team are all key factors.  Time will show this was not an equitable deal for the Jets.

[Def.]

Just to be completely subjective....

 

It's the Jets,  (the really bad word) em'.  I hope this ruins the franchise for years to come. 

 

[millworkguy]

Maybe the jets want to get to #1, and cle is willing to move back to hold 3 and 4, driving the price for both way up, and would then move back again... (having taken lessons from trading day)

[BeeR]

I think the top 3 or 4 picks are set.  I don't see anyone paying the ridiculous price it would cost to move up.  Which is just as well since if the Giants traded down the Colts COULD have had Barkley at 1.03 after all.  But there is no way he's getting past CLE at 1.04, not to mention DEN at 1.05.

 

F.  So close and yet.

Edited March 21, 2018 by BeeR

[Dcat]

11 hours ago, BeeR said:

I think the top 3 or 4 picks are set.  I don't see anyone paying the ridiculous price it would cost to move up.  Which is just as well since if the Giants traded down the Colts COULD have had Barkley at 1.03 after all.  But there is no way he's getting past CLE at 1.04, not to mention DEN at 1.05.

 

F.  So close and yet.

 

Colts are targeting Chubb, and at #6, they will get him.  Nice.  Outside of barkley, that's who they wanted anyway.

[stevegrab]

22 hours ago, Caveman_Nick said:

I think that a lot of ‘franchise quarterbacks’ have been ruined by lack of talent around them.  There’s not one player on the field.

 

People keep talking about Tom Brady.  Look at his development, his coaches, his teammates, the stability in the program, etc.  is he great?  Undoubtedly.  Did he work his rear end off to become great?  Without a doubt!  If he had been drafted to the Browns would he be the same player with the same accolades?  I don’t think so.

 

Nature, nurture, talent and team are all key factors.  Time will show this was not an equitable deal for the Jets.

 

This is something I've been trying to get Browns fans to understand for years. They looked at the results Wentz had with the Eagles and kept crying about what we missed. They've done it with other QBs, WR (Julio) and other players the Browns have passed on. But mostly QBs, where the talent around you (the coaching staff, the overall qualifty of the organization , etc) are a much larger factor in your ability to progress towards being a good NFL player.

 

I'm stll bummed/angry that Belichik couldn't be a great coach for the Browns. He just wasn't ready, more seasoning with the Big Tuna was needed. I wonder if we see that with Josh McDaniels some day, either with the Pats or another team.

[Caveman_Nick]

11 minutes ago, stevegrab said:

 

This is something I've been trying to get Browns fans to understand for years. They looked at the results Wentz had with the Eagles and kept crying about what we missed. They've done it with other QBs, WR (Julio) and other players the Browns have passed on. But mostly QBs, where the talent around you (the coaching staff, the overall qualifty of the organization , etc) are a much larger factor in your ability to progress towards being a good NFL player.

 

I'm stll bummed/angry that Belichik couldn't be a great coach for the Browns. He just wasn't ready, more seasoning with the Big Tuna was needed. I wonder if we see that with Josh McDaniels some day, either with the Pats or another team.

I thought Belichick was a good coach for the Browns.  Wasn’t it the sale/moving of the team that was the reason for him leaving?  Iirc it came down to ownership issues.  From a coaching standpoint it looked like his program was starting to take hold.  It just took a few years to build up.  Would have been the same here if not for the Bledsoe / Brady switch. Bledsoe was a very good QB in his own right, but just not ready to buy in to the Belichickian Way.

[stevegrab]

37 minutes ago, Caveman_Nick said:

I thought Belichick was a good coach for the Browns.  Wasn’t it the sale/moving of the team that was the reason for him leaving?  Iirc it came down to ownership issues.  From a coaching standpoint it looked like his program was starting to take hold.  It just took a few years to build up.  Would have been the same here if not for the Bledsoe / Brady switch. Bledsoe was a very good QB in his own right, but just not ready to buy in to the Belichickian Way.

 

BB had one winning season with the Browns, 36-44 in 5 seasons. He was the coach during their final years in CLE.

[Caveman_Nick]

The browns were 3-13 the season before Bill came. In 1994 they went 11-5.  The team was they went to the playoffs.  In his last season, the team fell apart after the sale was announced, so it’s hard to put that on the HC.

 

Sounds to me like he had started to turn the team around.  Different definitions of ‘Good Coach’ and ‘Success’, I guess :shrug:

[jetsfan]

and another Jets thread denigrates into a Browns thread.

[stevegrab]

59 minutes ago, Caveman_Nick said:

The browns were 3-13 the season before Bill came. In 1994 they went 11-5.  The team was they went to the playoffs.  In his last season, the team fell apart after the sale was announced, so it’s hard to put that on the HC.

 

Sounds to me like he had started to turn the team around.  Different definitions of ‘Good Coach’ and ‘Success’, I guess

 

Yep that makes sense. Maybe I'm just bitter that we lost out on what could have been a great coach, if that POS Modell hadn't moved the team. You'll pardon me if I don't love BB and send him Christmas cards.

 

I think its hard to argue that his time in CLE was far less successful than his time with NE (36-44 vs 214-74). But he'd easily be the most successful HC in the new Browns era

[jetsfan]

8 minutes ago, LordOpie said:

The jets don't suck enough to be interesting

Let us prove you wrong.

 

[darin3]

2 minutes ago, jetsfan said:

Let us prove you wrong.

 

 

  i think it's jumped the shark but this would have been the perfect spot for the "hold my beer" thing

[stevegrab]

1 hour ago, jetsfan said:

and another Jets thread denigrates into a Browns thread.

 

At least you get to live somewhere nice and sunny (I have a brother in Santa Clarita and spent 13 years as a kid in LA). You could be a Jets fan in NY dealing with another foot of snow.

[BeeR]

10 hours ago, Dcat said:

 

Colts are targeting Chubb, and at #6, they will get him.  Nice.  Outside of barkley, that's who they wanted anyway.

Yeah, glad to get him......I'd just rather have Barkley  They better draft an effing RB with one of those 2d round picks or I'm driving to Indy and lynching Ballard. 

[kdko]

On 3/20/2018 at 8:56 AM, LordOpie said:

Does anyone think that Dak Prescott is the next Tom Brady?

 

I don't even think he's the next Jay Cutler.

[Caveman_Nick]

  the stupidity of the Jets surprises you?

[stevegrab]

smoke and mirrors, and lots of people confused by it.

 

On Cleveland Browns discussions I hear people continuing to trash Dorsey for many things, including saying that he is listening ot offers for the #1 overall pick.

[jamesplante11]

3 hours ago, stevegrab said:

smoke and mirrors, and lots of people confused by it.

 

On Cleveland Browns discussions I hear people continuing to trash Dorsey for many things, including saying that he is listening ot offers for the #1 overall pick.

 

Jackson said today that no one will know who Dorsey intends to pick until draft night, Dorsey will not even tell him.....The fact that Jackson told Mary K this is exactly why he shouldn't be surprised Dorsey will not tell him. 

[stevegrab]

3 minutes ago, jamesplante11 said:

 

Jackson said today that no one will know who Dorsey intends to pick until draft night, Dorsey will not even tell him.....The fact that Jackson told Mary K this is exactly why he shouldn't be surprised Dorsey will not tell him.

 

So you really believe that if Dorsey told Hue who they were drafting that Hue would tell the press?

 

Does any GM/coach honestly answer these questions?  Why would they?  If I know what I'm doing why would I tell everybody else?

 

I am amazed how many fans listen to these guys talk and make judgements about them (like you did here).

 

Its why I keep saying "smoke and mirrors" there really isn't much to all this talk, but people eat it up, believe it and then decide some guys are idiots because of what they said.

[jamesplante11]

17 hours ago, stevegrab said:

 

So you really believe that if Dorsey told Hue who they were drafting that Hue would tell the press?

 

Does any GM/coach honestly answer these questions?  Why would they?  If I know what I'm doing why would I tell everybody else?

 

I am amazed how many fans listen to these guys talk and make judgements about them (like you did here).

 

Its why I keep saying "smoke and mirrors" there really isn't much to all this talk, but people eat it up, believe it and then decide some guys are idiots because of what they said.

 

- I do not believe Jackson would spill to the media who they are picking, just a fun little jab at Hue

- I listen to the chatter, because there is really nothing else to follow until tomorrow when baseball starts

- I believe I am more of an idiot for some of the things I do, not things I say

 

I enjoy the fact that some reporters think they can pry this information from people. No one in their right mind would risk ruining months/years of work by letting the press know their plan.

[stevegrab]

1 hour ago, LordOpie said:

if you know for a fact who you're taking at 1.01 and you're not entertaining trade offers, why not just say it?

so, do they not know (silly!) or are they entertaining offers? Or do they think keeping 1.01 a secret somehow helps them with 1.04?

 

They'd be stupid not to listen to offers, who knows what some foolish team will give up.

 

And yes, what they do, what people think they'll do could impact what happens with the 1.04 pick.

 

They have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to gain by saying who they will draft. Have other teams done that in the past? I don't recall it happening but don't follow this as closely as others.

 

I don't care if the media and fans go to bed in tears every night upset that the team won't spill it.

 

 

[jamesplante11]

3 hours ago, LordOpie said:

if you know for a fact who you're taking at 1.01 and you're not entertaining trade offers, why not just say it?

so, do they not know (silly!) or are they entertaining offers? Or do they think keeping 1.01 a secret somehow helps them with 1.04?

 

Lets pretend for a minute...

 

I am the Buffalo GM and I want Darnold

- If Cleveland says "We are 100% drafting Darnold"

    -Why would I trade up to 1.02 or 1.04 if the player I wont be there. 

    -There becomes zero reason to leapfrog Denver and the NYJ

 

By not telling the world who they are drafting they keep all their cards on the table. If they announce it to the world then the 1.02 pick becomes more valuable than the 1.01, because the NYG would have the #1 pick and the draft would just be minus one player.

 

[stevegrab]

29 minutes ago, LordOpie said:

yeah, I'm pretty sure that STL said *weeks* before that they were drafting Sam Bradford. I think CAR said in advance they were taking Cam Newton. Didn't IND announce in advance they were taking Luck? I'm almost certain HOU announced jadaveon clowney before the draft. It seems to happen every few years.

actually, now that we're talking about this... I vaguely remember 2-3 years ago the NFL asking teams to no longer announce picks? I think it was the year that TB was taking Jameis Winston? I think TB wanted to announce it early, but I think the NFL said to stop it?

 

So it happens sometimes but not every year. And the NFL has possibly asked teams to stop doing it.

 

Seems like reason enough not to expect teams to be doing it. But you want to think the Browns are dumb, ok.

 

 

 

 

[jamesplante11]

18 hours ago, LordOpie said:

how is any of that relevant if CLE knows who they are taking and refuses to trade the pick? Why would CLE care about the value of pick 1.02?

 

I remember something about the 2006 draft with mario williams going to HOU and reggie bush NOT being the #1 pick. I think NOS said before the draft that they're taking Reggie at #2, so the first two picks were known before the draft even started. It has happened before many times and I see nothing wrong with it; however, as I just said, i think the NFL TOLD teams to stop it. In fact, HOU had Williams signed to contract so they could brag about the advanced signing...
 

 

 

Its all relevant, because if your Cleveland you want this to turn into a draft the QB draft for picks 1-3 and then have you pick of everyone that doesn't play QB at 4. If you announce the QB you want, then you could be potentially eliminating potential suitors for people to trade up into the top 3 for a QB.