Duke

[WaterMan]

This coming from a Colts fan?

 

751888[/snapback]

 

 

 

[WaterMan]

Second off, the thing that makes Duke suck is the constant knob slobbering that gets done on them this time of year (and all year long by some loudmouth "analysts" on ESPN who watch about 25 games a year and are considered "experts").

 

752045[/snapback]

 

 

 

It's just like the NBA and NFL. They pick one or two teams and give them 24/7 coverage and then those teams blow it.

[billay]

:bigshock:  Anyone just see the completely bogus travelling call on Villanova inside of 11 seconds down by 3 points to UNC?????  Guy drives and hits the shot, whistle blows, and he thinks he drew the foul, and they call travelling?????? My TiVo shows two steps, how 'bout yours?

 

751894[/snapback]

 

 

 

 

The travel wasn't on the drive, it was up on the perimeter. He picked up his pivot foot. People want to call UNC lucky, but give me a break. Were you guys watching that game? UNC was called for shooting falls on 4 consecutive plays inside the last 2 minutes on some horrible calls. That last block that Melvin Scot got called for was a beautiful block, but the ref gave the guys 2 shots. It cuts both ways.

 

Villanova is a good team and they came to play. I give my heels credit for a very workmanlike performance and scratching out a win.

 

Remember the NCAA tourney is about 2 things:

 

Survive and Advance

 

 

EDIT TO ADD: DOOK SUCKS!

Edited March 26, 2005 by billay

[borge007]

Big 10 usually gets bad-mouthed all year, and then have several teams go deep into the tourney. . .

 

751926[/snapback]

 

 

 

 

One of the Big Ten teams(hopefully Illinois ) needs to win it all to get the respect!!

[crispirons]

props to the bigten. slammed all yr for being weak, the top 3 teams in the conference made the elite 8 and i would be surprised if at least 2 don't get to the final 4. i'm rooting for the illini but its hard not to like paul davis and michigan state. that name sounds vaguely familiar, i wonder where i have heard it before?

[Big John]

that name sounds vaguely familiar, i wonder where i have heard it before?

 

752168[/snapback]

 

 

 

On your driver's license

[phenom]

Not too talkative huh..oh well just trying to shoot the poop with someone.

 

752034[/snapback]

 

 

 

 

 

I haven't watched the NCAA's this year. I heard about all 4 #1 seeds making it to the sweet 16 and how there have never been all 4 to make it the Great 8 I think. Then Washington and Duke go down; so much for that Carolina-Duke matchup.

 

I think that Duke does get too much coverage and the Cameron Crazies get all this love for being the most passionate fans in sports. But then I have a west coast bias.

 

 

 

I know that Coach K and Duke have won 3 national titles.  But does anybody else think that with the amount of talent they have, the number of times they've been a #1 seed, and the number of times they've reached the Final Four,  that they perennially underachieve MOST of the time?  Once again, this year, #1 seed ousted in the Sweet 16.  I feel the same about North Carolina and Dean Smith too.  With that much talent, they should have more titles.  Both schools on paper could make the kind of run UCLA made back in the day.  But they haven't.

 

751885[/snapback]

 

 

 

 

 

It is funny to hear CHook talk about Duke not winning with all that talent when you could say the same thing about Indy and how they have become the new AFC Buffalo Bills.

 

 

Oh yeah Duke and Carolina will never ever, ever, ever, ever make a run like UCLA did. They had the best coach in college basketball and 2 of the best college basketball players ever in Lew Alcindor and Bill Walton. It will never be duplicated for a lot of reasons; players leave after 1 or 2 years if they even go, the tournament is now 64 teams which is a lot more than what it was back in the 60's and 70's...........

[Seahawks21]

Who is my favorite team in the nation?!!?? Thats right, whoever is playing DUKE!! SING-----I LOVE THE SPARTANS, I'm a JOYFUL SPARTAN, SPARTAN SPARTAN ah oooooh yeeeaahhhhh!!

[jackshi17]

The nice thing about being a Duke fan is that you know they will be back again strong next year.

So take your shots now while you have the opportunity.

[schellin30]

UNC is lucky to have won that game!!!

 

751918[/snapback]

 

 

 

 

 

The best teams always win

[Squeegiebo]

I don't understand why Duke is so hated, other than that they are consistently good and the hater's team is not. It's not like the Yankees who have the best team that money can buy. It's not like Jordan's Bulls or the 70s Steelers where a superior roster was able to dominate over a long period of time.

 

Duke has a great coach who runs a clean program at a school with tough academic standards and is able to win despite the constant turnover. What's not to like?

[WaterMan]

I don't understand why Duke is so hated, other than that they are consistently good and the hater's team is not.  It's not like the Yankees who have the best team that money can buy.  It's not like Jordan's Bulls or the 70s Steelers where a superior roster was able to dominate over a long period of time. 

 

Duke has a great coach who runs a clean program at a school with tough academic standards and is able to win despite the constant turnover.  What's not to like?

 

752329[/snapback]

 

 

 

You don't have the pleasure of living near Duke.

[Glabra]

I don't understand why Duke is so hated, other than that they are consistently good and the hater's team is not.  It's not like the Yankees who have the best team that money can buy.  It's not like Jordan's Bulls or the 70s Steelers where a superior roster was able to dominate over a long period of time. 

 

Duke has a great coach who runs a clean program at a school with tough academic standards and is able to win despite the constant turnover.  What's not to like?

 

752329[/snapback]

 

 

 

Why do we hate Dook? Let's see:

 

1. Their phony coach who's known to constantly cuss out and intimidate refs. He also dropped F bombs on a BC player a couple of years ago when his own player began the spat. Media or students questioning any of his moves or coaching decisions are treated with hostility and ridicule. The 'great teacher's' prodigies keep flopping in the NBA, except for some of the more recent ones, all of whom have one thing in common. They left school early!

 

2. The likes of Dook Vitale who pump up the program and act as cheerleaders. Now that everyone is becoming familiar with Salim Stoudamire its probably a good time to point out the Dick Vitale led disinformation campaign that 'JJ Redick is the best shooter in America and should be NPOY'.

 

JJ shot 41.7% from behind the arc during the regular season, which ranks him 140th in the country in 3P%. Well Done!!

 

3. A long lineage of unlikeable players from Laettner to Reddick whose slimeball tactics don't get enough ink.

 

4. Plenty of dirt around the program that, again, doesn't get as much media attention.

[CaptainHook]

It is funny to hear CHook talk about Duke not winning with all that talent when you could say the same thing about Indy and how they have become the new AFC Buffalo Bills.

 

752206[/snapback]

 

 

 

Tell me something. Why does every post I make have to be moved back to a discussion about the Colts? But if it must:

 

How many times have the Colts been the #1 seed in the NFL. Answer: Zero.

The following teams have also had "all that talent" and failed to win it all: Oakland, Philadelphia, Atlanta, Tennessee, and Carolina, but I don't hear you slamming all of them incessantly like a little whiny beeyotch. In fact, you laud Oakland and Atlanta for the same deficiencies the Colts have.

 

They may have a lot of offensive talent the last 5 years, but that hardly compares with what Duke has done over the last 20+ years. Offensively AND defensively, Duke has had A LOT of really great teams. I just am amazed that they don't have more titles.

Edited March 26, 2005 by CaptainHook

[Big Red]

I know that Coach K and Duke have won 3 national titles.  But does anybody else think that with the amount of talent they have, the number of times they've been a #1 seed, and the number of times they've reached the Final Four,  that they perennially underachieve MOST of the time?  Once again, this year, #1 seed ousted in the Sweet 16.  I feel the same about North Carolina and Dean Smith too.  With that much talent, they should have more titles.  Both schools on paper could make the kind of run UCLA made back in the day.  But they haven't.

 

751885[/snapback]

 

 

 

 

 

This coming from a Colts fan?

 

751888[/snapback]

 

 

 

 

Funniest thing I've seen in a while.

[godtomsatan]

I don't understand why Duke is so hated, other than that they are consistently good and the hater's team is not.  It's not like the Yankees who have the best team that money can buy.  It's not like Jordan's Bulls or the 70s Steelers where a superior roster was able to dominate over a long period of time. 

 

 

Actually, it is like that. They are the best team $$$ can buy. How many commericals is Coach K on during EVERY FREAKIN' COMMERCIAL BREAK? That money gets paid to the university and either goes to the coach, or just as likely back into the basketball program, which exists solely to increase revenues and funds for the athletic department and the rest of the university.

 

Duke has a great coach who runs a clean program at a school with tough academic standards and is able to win despite the constant turnover.  What's not to like?

 

752329[/snapback]

 

 

 

 

Great coach? Yes, he is. I hate Duke, but you can't argue with his success over the long haul. By saying he doesn't produce NBA stars only goes further in proving what a good coach he is (look at all the NBA stars Smith had at UNC in comparison).

 

Clean program? Duke covers it's ass well. All college football and basketball programs are dirty to some degree. Some programs are better than others at controlling the internal politics of the school and the NCAA. But don't think that they have their eyes on all their players all the time. There are reasons some kids leave school, transfer, and go pro that have nothing to do with playing time, grades, and talent.

 

And academic standards are not the same for a basketball player to get into Duke as they are for every other high schooler applying to get in.

[Glabra]

By saying he doesn't produce NBA stars only goes further in proving what a good coach he is (look at all the NBA stars Smith had at UNC in comparison).

 

752506[/snapback]

 

 

 

Not really. Given the hordes of Mcdonald's All-Americans they recruit every year, you'd expect more of them to pan out at the next level. It's not as if he's churning out all those sweet 16s while recruiting a bunch of stiffs.

[Squeegiebo]

Actually, it is like that. They are the best team $$$ can buy. How many commericals is Coach K on during EVERY FREAKIN' COMMERCIAL BREAK? That money gets paid to the university and either goes to the coach, or just as likely back into the basketball program, which exists solely to increase revenues and funds for the athletic department and the rest of the university.

 

752506[/snapback]

 

 

 

 

B.S. They're allowed the same number of scholarships as every other school.

 

As for the claim that the money Krzyzewski is paid for his commercials goes into the b-ball program, please provide a source for this info. I believe that is his money and his alone.

 

 

Clean program? Duke covers it's ass well. All college football and basketball programs are dirty to some degree. Some programs are better than others at controlling the internal politics of the school and the NCAA. But don't think that they have their eyes on all their players all the time. There are reasons some kids leave school, transfer, and go pro that have nothing to do with playing time, grades, and talent.

 

752506[/snapback]

 

 

 

 

Again, if you have any foundation for your claims, please produce it. I am not so naieve as to believe that most or even any program is absolutely squeaky-clean, but I'm not going to slander any particular program without having some kind of factual basis. You got one?

 

And academic standards are not the same for a basketball player to get into Duke as they are for every other high schooler applying to get in.

 

752506[/snapback]

 

 

 

 

Again, link? And how does Duke's acedemic standards for athletes compare with Louisville's, or North Carolina's, or Texas', or Oklahoma's, or Washington's......?

[Glabra]

COMMENTARY

 

In college basketball, no clean getaways

 

 

By Bob Ryan, Globe Staff, 4/6/2003

 

EW ORLEANS -- The Thursday morning New Orleans Times-Picayune provided us with a juicy and sobering reminder that beneath the pomp and ceremony of the NCAA men's Final Four there is a sausage factory of deceit, hypocrisy, and Lord knows what else. Big-time college basketball is not always a pretty enterprise.

 

 

 

The embarrassed coach wasn't one of the known rogues. We would not have been surprised if Coach X or Coach Y had been caught with hand in cookie jar. But when the alleged culprit is Mike Krzyzewski, eyebrows are raised.

 

According to the Times-Picayune's Josh Peter, in the summer of 2000 Vivian Harper, mother of Duke incoming freshman point guard Chris Duhon, moved from her home in Slidell, La., to a two-bedroom apartment in Durham, N.C. She was given a job at a firm called NCM Capital Management Company, a billion-dollar money management firm owned by a man named Maceo Sloan, among whose possessions is an autographed basketball signed by the 1991 Duke championship team, Coach K's first title squad. Workers at the firm say the job was never posted. They also allege that Walker was given a substantial raise within four months.

 

There's more. Peters also reports that Carlos Boozer Sr., the then-unemployed father of former Duke star Carlos Boozer, was given a job at GlaxoSmithKline, a pharmaceutical company owned by Robert Ingram, who is a close friend of Coach K's. In order to take the job, the elder Boozer relocated from Alaska.

 

Coach K? Say it isn't so!

 

But this is not the first time Coach K's image has taken a little beating. He made a very big mistake in recruiting Corey Maggette, who played his AAU ball for the infamous (and aptly named) Myron Piggie in Kansas City. Maggette bolted for the NBA after his freshman year, but not before admitting he had accepted the kind of favors from Mr. Piggie that would have rendered him ineligible to play college ball in the first place. Coach K was contrite at the time, saying he had learned his lesson and would never mess around with that kind of kid again. So now he, or someone representing Duke's basketball interests, appears to be in the parental-job-placement business.

 

Duke always wants you to think it takes the highest road possible. Remember when Coach K refused to hang an early championship banner in Cameron because Phil Henderson and Alaa Abdelnaby had left school without degrees? Seems like a long time ago.

 

The rule of thumb is that you don't want to know how these teams got here. Hey, for all I know, Kansas, Marquette, Syracuse, and Texas are squeaky-clean. If so, great. But once this competition is concluded, don't throw away your ticket. There is always a chance the stewards may wind up conducting an inquiry.

 

We in New England know how it works, don't we? Officially, the 1996 run to the Final Four by the University of Massachusetts never happened. Marcus Camby was dirty, having accepted money and gifts from a prospective agent. The NCAA Men's Final Four Tournament Records book lists UMass as having ''vacated'' its participation.

 

This is not exactly an uncommon occurrence. Since 1961, when third-place St. Joseph's was so listed in the aftermath of a point-shaving scandal (those being the days of a consolation game, this particular one being the Hawks' epic 127-120 four-overtime conquest of Utah), 50 teams have been declared to have ''vacated'' their participation in a given NCAA tournament. The most recent naughty lads were Arizona and UCLA in 1999.

 

Maintaining a high-level basketball program is very difficult, but it is somewhat easier if you are willing to scale down your academic and ethical standards. The biggest problem nowadays is that the athletes in the recruiting pool have a completely different background from the athletes of yore. The basic world view of the average player is a bit more sophisticated than the outlook belonging to his father or grandfather.

 

Recruiting at the highest level was never easy, but now it is exponentially worse. For one thing, it is endless. There used to be such a thing as quiet recruiting years. If, for example, a coach had very good junior and sophomore classes, he could kind of take a year off and simply concentrate on seeing what's out there among high school juniors or even sophomores. But since almost every top-flight college player leaves after either his freshman or sophomore year, a coach must constantly restock.

 

Coach K was the last major coaching notable to have early defections, but once the epidemic spread to Duke, it hit in a major way. Twice in the last four years, he lost three players to the pros. At least two of these decisions were utterly foolish. Neither William Avery nor Mike Dunleavy had any reason to rush out. Dunleavy's departure was particularly perplexing since he doesn't need the money. It is safe to say that his father, Mike Sr., has millions (plural) in the bank.

 

The world has changed, and Mike Krzyzewski has been forced to react by lowering his standards. Every kid Krzyzewski goes after now is just one more spoiled AAU pup with a ridiculous entitlement mentality. He'll never see another Grant Hill or Shane Battier if he lives to be 500. But Coach K likes to win, and so does his Duke constituency. He's not Tom Brennan up there in Burlington, Vt., happy with his lifestyle and able to sleep well at night with a 17-year graduation rate of 95 percent, just praying for an occasional trip to the tournament. The demands are a little different at Duke.

 

A lot goes into assembling teams such as Kansas, Marquette, Syracuse, and Texas. I will take the liberty of speaking for you, if, like me, you have the operating philosphy that what we don't know can't hurt us.

 

But no matter what transpires here, don't forget that one or more of these four eventually having its participation ''vacated'' is a sadly real possibility.

[godtomsatan]

Not really. Given the hordes of Mcdonald's All-Americans they recruit every year, you'd expect more of them to pan out at the next level. It's not as if he's churning out all those sweet 16s while recruiting a bunch of stiffs.

 

752518[/snapback]

 

 

 

 

It's not his fault they don't pan out in the NBA. If anything the players are "disappointments" because they have such big names and hype coming out of the Duke program.

 

I'm not defending Duke, I'm just saying you can't really be that dismissive of their success.

[Glabra]

It's not his fault they don't pan out in the NBA. If anything the players are "disappointments" because they have such big names and hype coming out of the Duke program.

 

I'm not defending Duke, I'm just saying you can't really be that dismissive of their success.

 

752689[/snapback]

 

 

 

It's ultimately up to the players to get it done at the next level. But taking the best raw talent and throwing in the supposedly best coaching staff into the mix, you'd expect to see more hits than misses, at the very least. Just like in college football, where the top recruiting teams(Florida schools, Tennessee, Ohio State etc.) also seem to generate the best pros. Something's amiss here.

[Squeegiebo]

College ball and pro ball are practically different games. Guys who are great it the college game often don't pan out in the pros (look at the guys from Indiana's championship teams). But I guess you're gonna tell me Bob Knight is a lousy coach too. :oldrolleyes:

[CaptainHook]

Indiana has not had the steady stream of McDonald's All-Americans that Duke and UNC has. Indiana has been up and down in the tourney, had many less Final Four appearances, and a TON less #1 seeds than Duke and North Carolina. Yet they've won just as many titles since '76 as them (3). Five overall. Nonetheless, those days are over, as Mike Davis is a terrible coach.

Edited March 27, 2005 by CaptainHook

[godtomsatan]

It's ultimately up to the players to get it done at the next level. But taking the best raw talent and throwing in the supposedly best coaching staff into the mix, you'd expect to see more hits than misses, at the very least.

752702[/snapback]

 

In general I agree, but a program like Duke attracts the kind of talent that allows Coach K to pick and choose what kind of players he needs and wants to play his style.

 

Christ, why am I spending time defending him?!

 

Just like in college football, where the top recruiting teams(Florida schools, Tennessee, Ohio State etc.) also seem to generate the best pros. Something's amiss here.

 

It's apples and oranges (or more appropriately football and basketball). In college football, freshman rarely have significant roles on powerhouse teams. Underclassmen very rarely bolt after two years (successfully anyway). Players are redshirted much more frequently.

 

On the NFL level, either you make it or you don't. Not many players get developed (QBs and WRs are the exception). Front offices are not in the business of taking risks on guys that aren't able to perform at the pro level. That's what the colleges do for them.

 

In the NBA, there is the European option, the CBA option, and the 42 guys on the injured list of seemingly every team's roster. Players often take awhile to develop their game, fit into a role where they can succeed, and teams are much more patient with them.

[godtomsatan]

As for the claim that the money Krzyzewski is paid for his commercials goes into the b-ball program, please provide a source for this info.  I believe that is his money and his alone. 

 

 

Krzyzewski has an agent (supposedly the only coach to have one). I am making an assumption, and perhaps incorrectly, that Duke benefits from this somehow financially. Any other deal that involves equipment or endorsement has to go through athletic departments for approval (at most schools) and is part of a coaches contract. As I said, Krzyzewski might be a special case, and I could be wrong. Still, Duke receives some exposure benefit from his face being everywhere during their games on CBS.

 

Again, if you have any foundation for your claims, please produce it.  I am not so naieve as to believe that most or even any program is absolutely squeaky-clean, but I'm not going to slander any particular program without having some kind of factual basis.  You got one?

 

 

Guilt by association. Duke is a successful basketball program year in and year out because Coach K is a very good coach. It is also very successful because the boosters see to it. Substitute Duke with UNC, substitute Coach K with Roy Williams. UConn with Jim Calhoun. Kentucky with Tubby Smith.

 

I don't have evidence other than it is simply my belief that college sports has a lot more to do with the boosters that fund the programs than anyone ever is willing to admit.

 

Again, link?  And how does Duke's acedemic standards for athletes compare with Louisville's, or North Carolina's, or Texas', or Oklahoma's, or Washington's......?

 

752538[/snapback]

 

 

 

 

First, Duke is a fairly small private university. Those others are all fairly large public universities. I believe they can allow whoever they want into their school.

 

Second, US News & World Report in their 2005 annual survey of the top colleges in the nation include Duke University at #5. Stanford is also in the top 10. The rest are MIT, Cal Tech, and six Ivy League schools.

 

Where was MIT in this year's field of 64 again?

 

I didn't look for a link to prove my point, because it's an obvious one. It's not like Duke is recruiting illiterates that scored a 400 on the SAT, but being able to consistently hit 20 foot shots from the outside or being 6-10/240 compensates a great deal for what a student lacks in reading comprehension and math skills.