bill polian flipping out

[Furd]

I don't particularly like or dislike Manning.

 

Maybe I'm not paying that much attention, but I don't recall Manning winning too much of anything in the postseason - college or pro.

 

I guess that he is always on the inferior team. Coincidence? Maybe. But the longer he goes without postseason success, the less of a coincidence it is.

[Caveman_Nick]

Only tools of the pro-Pats media call Peyton a "choke."

 

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So you don't hear that in the NY media, the CHI media, the LA media, the Indy media...?

 

I'll have to do some looking later...

[Dragon]

Maybe I'm not paying that much attention, but I don't recall Manning winning too much of anything in the postseason - college or pro.

 

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Your memory is fine.

[Gdawg]

How is someone "incapble of winning the big game" when the other pieces of his team that are NECESSARY to do so aren't there?  That's just stupid.

He won a shootout on the road in front of 90,000 people in Arrowhead in January of '05.  Trent Dilfer sure as hell wouldn't have done that.

 

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NOBODY could win a shootout in Billick's offense...unless it was the 1890's and the forward pass was illegal...

[giantsfan]

How is someone "incapble of winning the big game" when the other pieces of his team that are NECESSARY to do so aren't there?  That's just stupid.

He won a shootout on the road in front of 90,000 people in Arrowhead in January of '05.  Trent Dilfer sure as hell wouldn't have done that.

 

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1. So now the Colts don't have the other pieces? They were 13-0 this year and a HUGH favorite. They ran the ball a lot to get there. Get into the playoffs and what happens Peyton doesn't even look at Edge. That's stupid. Many thought they would beat NE last year and they lost. So 1. to Indy hasn't had the pieces THAT is stupid. and 2. why can't you accept that FOREVER right or wrong QB's get the credit or blame for W's and L's. It's just fact.

2. That was 1 game against an AWFUL D and Indy won pretty easy. He's still 3-6 or 3-7 in the playoffs. And again I think Manning is a GREAT QB so mentioned Dilfer makes no sense. All I am saying is why can't Manning take a hit here? Is is the Colts do it all guy and the "best player" in the league after all.

Edited January 19, 2006 by giantsfan

[Bill Swerski]

That was Brady's first playoff loss. If Manning was 7-3 in the playoffs this wouldn't be said.

 

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It was also the first time that Brady made the playoffs with a defense that was less than elite. If Manning had played on the Pats from '01-'04, I'm sure that he'd be 7-3 in the playoffs as well.

 

Again why can't Peyton take a hit for his bad playoff record and his team always having some excuse why they lost?

 

So, the secondary getting torched for two TDs in the first quarter, the gross lack of pass protection throughout the game, and the "elite" kicker missing a makeable 46-yd FG at the end AREN'T valid excuses? Peyton was certainly not at his best on Sunday, but it's just ridiculous to say that he "can't win the big game" when many other parts his team have played poorly in the playoffs.

[giantsfan]

It was also the first time that Brady made the playoffs with a defense that was less than elite.  If Manning had played on the Pats from '01-'04, I'm sure that he'd be 7-3 in the playoffs as well.

So, the secondary getting torched for two TDs in the first quarter, the gross lack of pass protection throughout the game, and the "elite" kicker missing a makeable 46-yd FG at the end AREN'T valid excuses?    Peyton was certainly not at his best on Sunday, but it's just ridiculous to say that he "can't win the big game" when many other parts his team have played poorly in the playoffs.

 

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1. Manning may be 10-1 or 11-1 like Brady is or he MAY NOT we don't know. But again Indy was the HUGH fav this year and LOST. They were picked by many against NE last year and lost. So PLEASE stop saying they don't have the pieces that is dumb. They were THE BEST TEAM IN THE NFL THIS YEAR.

2. Their D allowed 3 TD's. BIG DEAL. And being down 14-0 early at home with Indy's O isn't that big a deal.

[Bill Swerski]

1. So now the Colts don't have the other pieces? They were 13-0 this year.

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I'm sorry, did the Colts look like a 13-0 team on Sunday? Did their highly-ranked defense routinely give up 2 TDs in the first quarter of games in the regular season? Did Peyton get sacked an average of 5 times per game in the regular season? Are the Steelers "typical" in terms that the Colts played en route to that 13-0 record?

 

All I am saying is why can't Manning take a hit here? Is is the Colts do it all guy and the "best player" in the league after all.

 

This is where you're dead wrong. NOBODY in the NFL can do it all themselves. It takes a TEAM effort. Not even golden boy Tom Brady could make up for all of the stupid mistakes that his teammates committed on Saturday.

Edited January 19, 2006 by Bill Swerski

[giantsfan]

I don't particularly like or dislike Manning.

 

Maybe I'm not paying that much attention, but I don't recall Manning winning too much of anything in the postseason - college or pro.

 

I guess that he is always on the inferior team.  Coincidence?  Maybe.  But the longer he goes without postseason success, the less of a coincidence it is.

 

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NEVER beat Florida in college and Tenn won the NC the year after Manning left with TEE MARTIN.

[Bill Swerski]

1. Manning may be 10-1 or 11-1 like Brady is or he MAY NOT we don't know. But again Indy was the HUGH fav this year and LOST. They were picked by many against NE last year and lost. So PLEASE stop saying they don't have the pieces that is dumb. They were THE BEST TEAM IN THE NFL THIS YEAR.

 

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The events that transpired on Sunday show that they were clearly not the best team in the NFL this year.

 

2. Their D allowed 3 TD's. BIG DEAL. And being down 14-0 early at home with Indy's O isn't that big a deal.

 

It sure as hell is when you're playing the Steelers defense.

[Caveman_Nick]

Not even golden boy Tom Brady could make up for all of the stupid fumbles and his team committed on Saturday.

 

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I'll get over it someday.

[giantsfan]

I'm sorry, did the Colts look like a 13-0 team on Sunday?  Did their highly-ranked defense routinely give up 2 TDs in the first quarter of games in the regular season?  Did Peyton get sacked an average of 5 times per game in the regular season?  Are the Steelers "typical" in terms that the Colts played en route to that 13-0 record?

This is where you're dead wrong.  NOBODY in the NFL can do it all themselves.  It takes a TEAM effort.  Not even golden boy Tom Brady could make up for all of the stupid fumbles and his team committed on Saturday.

 

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1. They were the best team in the NFL. You said they didn't have the pieces. That is different than the pieces didn't play well Sunday. So yes they CLEARLY had the pieces. And yes those are the "typical" teams the Colts beat getting to 13-0. Last I checked they beat Pitt, Jax twice, Cincy, and NE on route to 13-0.

 

2. I didn't mean he can win or lose games alone I meant for their team he does it all. Meaning calls the plays, sets the protection, and so on.

[giantsfan]

The events that transpired on Sunday show that they were clearly not the best team in the NFL this year.

It sure as hell is when you're playing the Steelers defense.

 

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See now that's where I'm done. They dominate the NFL this year, are a HUGH favorite into the playoffs, and then lose and you have the nerve to sit here and type they don't have the pieces. That's a joke Swerski. 1 loss doesn't say that. They lost because AS USUAL in big spots Manning REFUSES to run Edge, calls stupid plays like SG on 3rd and 2 and a 20 yard pass instead of under C and maybe run or throw a quick out for the 1st, and they are soft, NOT because they don't have the pieces.

Edited January 19, 2006 by giantsfan

[Bill Swerski]

1. They were the best team in the NFL. You said they didn't have the pieces. That is different than the pieces didn't play well Sunday. So yes they CLEARLY had the pieces. And yes those are the "typical" teams the Colts beat getting to 13-0. Last I checked they beat Pitt, Jax twice, Cincy, and NE on route to 13-0.

 

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And they also got four games out of HOU and TEN, plus one out of SF, one each ouf of the 49ers, Browns, Rams, and Cardinals. So, no, Pittsburgh is NOT typical of the teams that Indy beat earlier this year.

 

They Colts may have had all of the pieces, but the "pieces" sure as hell didn't execute on Sunday (especially the secondary and the O-line). Having talent and being the best team are two completely different things. That should be obvious to anybody.

 

2. I didn't mean he can win or lose games alone I meant for their team he does it all. Meaning calls the plays, sets the protection, and so on.

 

Manning doesn't play defense. And he didn't give up two TDs in the first quarter either. If Bettis hadn't fumbled at the goal line and if Marlon Jackson had been flagged for the pass interference call on Randle El, it could've easily been 35-18.

 

I understand what you're saying about the offensive play-calling and agree with you to a certain extent. But in the end, the other 10 people on the offense need to share at least as much blame.

[Bill Swerski]

See now that's where I'm done. They dominate the NFL this year, are a HUGH favorite into the playoffs, and then lose and you have the nerve to sit here and type they don't have the pieces. That's a joke Swerski. 1 loss doesn't say that.

 

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One loss sure as hell says that when it's a playoff loss.

 

If you want to blame Manning for not calling enough running plays, that's fine. He should've on 3rd-and-2 on that last drive. But it's not like they were running the ball effectively throughout the game. They did so on ONE drive in the second quarter and then got stuffed near the goal line. By the time the 3rd quarter came around, they were down 21-3 and their defense was getting run over by Bettis and Parker. You can't pound the ball in that situation.

[giantsfan]

And they also got four games out of HOU and TEN, plus one out of SF, one each ouf of the 49ers, Browns, Rams, and Cardinals.  So, no, Pittsburgh is NOT typical of the teams that Indy beat earlier this year.

 

They Colts may have had all of the pieces, but the "pieces" sure as hell didn't execute on Sunday (especially the secondary and the O-line).  Having talent and being the best team are two completely different things.  That should be obvious to anybody.

Manning doesn't play defense.  And he didn't give up two TDs in the first quarter either.  If Bettis hadn't fumbled at the goal line and if Marlon Jackson had been flagged for the pass interference call on Randle El, it could've easily been 35-18.

 

I understand what you're saying about the offensive play-calling and agree with you to a certain extent.  But in the end, the other 10 people on the offense need to share at least as much blame.

 

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No team plays all good teams every week. They beat Pitt and MANY good teams in route to the 13-0 start so you are WAY off there. And the Cards were the last game not part of 13-0.

 

And yes Manning calls the plays and they ALWAYS go away from the running game every year in the playoffs. Coincidence?

[Caveman_Nick]

One loss sure as hell says that when it's a playoff loss.

 

If you want to blame Manning for not calling enough running plays, that's fine.  He should've on 3rd-and-2 on that last drive.  But it's not like they were running the ball effectively throughout the game.  They did so on ONE drive in the second quarter and then got stuffed near the goal line.  By the time the 3rd quarter came around, they were down 21-3 and their defense was getting run over by Bettis and Parker.  You can't pound the ball in that situation.

 

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What you say about the Colts defense is true. It got run over early. It's also true that they bucked up and held Pitt to 21 points for the whole game. I think overall the Indy defense did it's job. Indy's offense scored over 27 PPG, compared to Pitt's defense allowing 16 PPG this season. Indy should have been able to put up the 21 points.

 

Where Manning gets the blame is as Giantsfan states, the plays he called in situations at the line of scrimmage, and I will add in calling the blocking schemes. He takes that responsibility on himself, and clearly couldn't handle getting his people in the right positions to deal with the blitz. That means both blockers and hot reads. He did a poor job commanding the offense in that game. 20 yard outs when you need 2 yards is not the way to go. He took unnecessary chances and they backfired.

[giantsfan]

One loss sure as hell says that when it's a playoff loss.

 

If you want to blame Manning for not calling enough running plays, that's fine.  He should've on 3rd-and-2 on that last drive.  But it's not like they were running the ball effectively throughout the game.  They did so on ONE drive in the second quarter and then got stuffed near the goal line.  By the time the 3rd quarter came around, they were down 21-3 and their defense was getting run over by Bettis and Parker.  You can't pound the ball in that situation.

 

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They didn't go down 21-3 until 1:30 was left in the 3rd so it was 14-3 for MANY 3rd Q possesions.

 

And Edge averaged 4.3 YPC.

 

So wrong and wrong again Swerski.

 

I think I made my point. Manning is GREAT but doesn't win big games, and needs to have some responsibilites like play calling taken from him so maybe the Colts could do what they did in route to 13-0 which was RUN EDGE a lot.

 

I am out of this. Enjoy the off-season

[Czarina]

 

Entertaining as always, Swerski. I especially like the part where you somehow bring the McGinest/Izzo thing into it, as if it has any relevance whatsoever. Good one!

[WaterMan]

Did their highly-ranked defense routinely give up 2 TDs in the first quarter of games in the regular season?

 

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I tried to tell you about that defense at the start of the season.

[CaptainHook]

I tried to tell you about that defense at the start of the season.

 

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I thought the defense played great Sunday. They may have allowed a first posession TD, but they were doing what EVERYONE said they should do: Try to force Roeth to beat you. He did a great job on that first drive. The D forced a turnover on the second drive. The problem was the offense kept going three and out.

 

Listen, I've been as big a supporter of Manning as anyone, but there are no excuses for Sunday. He called a terrible game. From not running the ball enough, to running stupid pass routes, he gets a huge portion of the blame. Did the offensive line play poorly? Yes. Did the special teams SUCK, yes. But Manning should have done more.

 

I was at the Indy/KC game. Manning was unbelievable moving guys around and answering every score KC's offense could muster. But it was against a horrible defense. I don't blame Manning for all the Colts play-off woes, but he's had enough now that it is a concern (2003 AFC Championship, 2004 Divisional, 2005 Divisional). Defense was great this year, IMO. No excuses anymore. You want your QB to have the ball in his hand with the game on the line. Peyton had that twice on Sunday. On the first drive he got sacked twice (ever heard of a hot route?). On the second drive he made horrible decisions at the end. Bottom line, he didn't get it done. At home. With a good defense. You just can't make excuses anymore. Has he had some cases of bad luck? Yep. But he's just not doing enough to win either. Until he's does it, he and the Colts are chokers.

[ced1001]

I have respect for CaptainHook. I agree with your comments. I also think that PBurgh came in super fired up and that, every year Manning faces a huge challenge because the Colts offense is deemed unstopable by the pundits. You don't think defenses like the Pats/Charges/Steelers feed of that sh!t? Well your wrong. These defenses love a great challenge.

 

Also, I am not a huge Manning fan to begin with, but what would freak me out more than anything (if I were a Colts fan) was telling the defense to get off the field and not listening to Dungy. That would piss me off as a fan.

[WaterMan]

The first quarter doesn't count since the Colts were playing the 2nd string defense I guess.

 

It didn't look like the defense MADE Ben beat them to me. It just looked like they didn't know they had to cover Miller. Oops.

 

The Steelers had good tough running that maybe didn't produce 200 yards like the Falcons, but they were all ready up 14-0. I just don't understand how they let Jerome Bettis leap 2 inches into the endzone to score.

 

I would have gave the Colts defense credit for the goal line fumble caused by the LB, but then Nick Harper, the Colts defender with the most tackles, gets tackled.....by the QB.

[CaptainHook]

The first quarter doesn't count since the Colts were playing the 2nd string defense I guess.

 

It didn't look like the defense MADE Ben beat them to me. It just looked like they didn't know they had to cover Miller. Oops.

 

The Steelers had good tough running that maybe didn't produce 200 yards like the Falcons, but they were all ready up 14-0. I just don't understand how they let Jerome Bettis leap 2 inches into the endzone to score.

 

I would have gave the Colts defense credit for the goal line fumble caused by the LB, but then Nick Harper, the Colts defender with the most tackles, gets tackled.....by the QB.

 

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First off, they were playing to stop the run. They were doing that exceedingly well. The problem is the Colts safeties are both strong safeties. Neither are very good in coverage. The Colts rely on pressure from their line to hide their deficiencies in the secondary. They only gave up 21 points. The Colts offense should score that many at home in their sleep. Defense played a hell of a game. Two turnovers. They kept giving the ball back to the offense when they needed it. And they did nothing with it.

[cheezhed]

Here's an idea........teach the All Mighty Manning to scramble once in a while!!