Skrappy1 Posted December 4, 2004 Share Posted December 4, 2004 Probably not going to get too many responses back to this one Avernus but I think everyone knows where I stand! As far as the comparison to Brees and Vick I have to say I rate them about the same with a lean to Vick because of the rushing. Brees has a few better weapons in Gates and LT so he shouldn't have a problem scoring. Vick sometimes gives away his TD's to the rushing game also. That's a tough call............ 590507[/snapback] You are fooling yourself: Vick = 2573 total yards + 13 total TDs w/ 12 total turnovers (INTs + Fumbles) Brees = 2533 total yards + 23 total TDs w/ 5 total turnovers Note the TD to Turnover ratio...it's a glaring difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveman_Nick Posted December 4, 2004 Share Posted December 4, 2004 you rate Vick ahead of Brees at this point?explain....I have both of them on one of my fantasy teams and don't know which one to ride the rest of the way.... just looking for food for thought type of stuff.. 590484[/snapback] Until Further Notice... Brees is a one year wonder whose bubble could burst at any moment. Vick is a guy that is obviously and undisputedly linked to his team's success, and who has put up lofty fantasy numbers before. The first half of the season he was adapting to the WCO. If you believe Steve Young, he's probably not even close yet, but he's really turned it on in the last 6 weeks. I look for Vick to improve and light the world on fire for the next several years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conrad Mazian Posted December 4, 2004 Share Posted December 4, 2004 Brees is a one year wonder whose bubble could burst at any moment. Vick is a guy that is obviously and undisputedly linked to his team's success, and who has put up lofty fantasy numbers before. 590639[/snapback] Thank you, Mr Glass-is-half-full. Nice prediction and I don't necessarily disagree, but based on current evidence, all one can really conjecture is that Vick is a stunning athlete who has struggled to CONSISTENTLY produce. And consistency is really the key in the NFL. Overrated fantasy-wise? Definitely. Overrated in the "real" world? Based on his apparent impact to his team, it's tough to say he isn't an MVP-type player; based on his accomplishments, well, you'd like to see him do a little more before being put in the Hall of Fame (as many seem pretty ready to do). At least when people knob-slobber over Favre, he's got an impressive track record to back him up; all Vick has is potential and a handful of games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skrappy1 Posted December 4, 2004 Share Posted December 4, 2004 (edited) As far as the comparison to Brees and Vick I have to say I rate them about the same with a lean to Vick because of the rushing. Brees has a few better weapons in Gates and LT so he shouldn't have a problem scoring. Vick sometimes gives away his TD's to the rushing game also. That's a tough call............ 590507[/snapback] Oh yeah, besides these numbers I have already mentioned below, I forgot to add this...how do you figure that Vick "sometimes gives away his TD's to the rushing game?" Check this out: Dunn - 7 TDs Duckett - 4 TDs That's 11 TDs that Vick has been so nice to "give away" to Atlanta's rushing game. Meanwhile, here are the Charger RB TD totals: Tomlinson - 11 TDs Chatman - 3 TDs So once again you have shown your argument is ridiculous...by your rationale, Brees has "given away" 3 more of his TDs to the rushing game than has Vick, yet he still has accounted for 10 more TDs than Vick and 7 less turnovers, and even with Vick's rushing yards added, they still have about the same total yardage. Explain again how you rate them about the same with the edge going to Vick? You are fooling yourself: Vick = 2573 total yards + 13 total TDs w/ 12 total turnovers (INTs + Fumbles) Brees = 2533 total yards + 23 total TDs w/ 5 total turnovers Note the TD to Turnover ratio...it's a glaring difference. 590595[/snapback] Edited December 4, 2004 by Skrappy1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phenom Posted December 4, 2004 Share Posted December 4, 2004 Explain again how you rate them about the same with the edge going to Vick? 591201[/snapback] Did you read this part? you rate Vick ahead of Brees at this point? 590484[/snapback] I am rating them right now based on their production going forth. Based on their last 4 games because that's what Yahoo has up. Brees' production 1142 yards passing, 12 TD's, 0 INT's, 53 yards rushing 1 TD Vicks production 726 yards passing, 7 TD's, 2 INT's, 361 yards rushing 1 TD Now looking at that Brees does have an advantage in stats, however you must always look closer than just the numbers. You should see at how they arrived at these numbers. The obvious point to look at is opponents. Brees has played the equivalent of practice squads in the last 4 weeks Oakland (twice) ranked 28th in points given up; ranked 26th in yards given up New Orleans ranked 31st in points given up; ranked 31st in yards given up KC ranked 30th in points given up; ranked last in yards given up So what does that mean. This is the best Brees is going to do. He has had his time to have his career days. Vick in his last 4 games played Denver ranked 6th in points given up; ranked 8th in yards given up Tampa ranked 10th in points given up; ranked 5th in yards given up NY Giants ranked 9th in points given up; ranked 10th in yards given New Orleans we know their stats suck as a defense So Vick has produced pretty good numbers against teams that had top 10 defenses (besides the Saints) Moving ahead in the schedule Brees is slated to face Denver Tampa Bay Cleveland Indy We know Denver and Tampa will be tough tests and according to Jrick, Swerski and the Captain Indy's defense is pretty good and create lots of turnovers. Plus even Cleveland won't be pretty because you will be in Cleveland deep in Dec. Not a great proposition for a southern Cal team. Vick's next 4 games? Tampa Oakland Carolina New Orleans Tampa and Carolina may give him tough games but he normally has owned the Panthers throughout his career. He's frustrated their front 4 everytime. Oakland and New Orleans? Fantasy heaven baby. I'll take Vick thank you................. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted December 4, 2004 Share Posted December 4, 2004 I'll take Vick also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Score 1 Posted December 4, 2004 Share Posted December 4, 2004 Vick's next 4 games? Tampa Oakland Carolina New Orleans Tampa and Carolina may give him tough games but he normally has owned the Panthers throughout his career. He's frustrated their front 4 everytime. Oakland and New Orleans? Fantasy heaven baby. I'll take Vick thank you................. 591432[/snapback] Don't bank on New Orleans as a gimme for Vick & the Falcons. Falcons & Saints are one of the little known newer, yet still great, NFL rivalries. For all those years dating back to the inception of these teams in the 1960's when both the Saints & Falcons were nothing but the doormats of the NFL, if there were ever two games a year where you could count on watching great football from those pathetic teams, it was when they played each other. Nothing has changed. You go to the Super Dome when they play and you'll see tons of Falcon fans at the game. They come in bus loads. The reverse happens when the game is at the Georgia Dome. A very healthy contingent of Saints fans are always present. I expect New Orleans would love for nothing more, than to hand a regular season loss to the Falcons at the end of the year. Mark my words, they'll be up for that game. And that's not even taking into account the natural family rivalry between Brooks & Vick, since they're cousins. But personally.....I still like Vick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted December 4, 2004 Share Posted December 4, 2004 Did you read this part?I am rating them right now based on their production going forth. Based on their last 4 games because that's what Yahoo has up. Brees' production 1142 yards passing, 12 TD's, 0 INT's, 53 yards rushing 1 TD Vicks production 726 yards passing, 7 TD's, 2 INT's, 361 yards rushing 1 TD Now looking at that Brees does have an advantage in stats, however you must always look closer than just the numbers. You should see at how they arrived at these numbers. The obvious point to look at is opponents. Brees has played the equivalent of practice squads in the last 4 weeks Oakland (twice) ranked 28th in points given up; ranked 26th in yards given up New Orleans ranked 31st in points given up; ranked 31st in yards given up KC ranked 30th in points given up; ranked last in yards given up So what does that mean. This is the best Brees is going to do. He has had his time to have his career days. Vick in his last 4 games played Denver ranked 6th in points given up; ranked 8th in yards given up Tampa ranked 10th in points given up; ranked 5th in yards given up NY Giants ranked 9th in points given up; ranked 10th in yards given New Orleans we know their stats suck as a defense So Vick has produced pretty good numbers against teams that had top 10 defenses (besides the Saints) Moving ahead in the schedule Brees is slated to face Denver Tampa Bay Cleveland Indy We know Denver and Tampa will be tough tests and according to Jrick, Swerski and the Captain Indy's defense is pretty good and create lots of turnovers. Plus even Cleveland won't be pretty because you will be in Cleveland deep in Dec. Not a great proposition for a southern Cal team. Vick's next 4 games? Tampa Oakland Carolina New Orleans Tampa and Carolina may give him tough games but he normally has owned the Panthers throughout his career. He's frustrated their front 4 everytime. Oakland and New Orleans? Fantasy heaven baby. I'll take Vick thank you................. 591432[/snapback] yea...the rest of the way, I like Vick, but this week....I'm not so sure...especially over Brees... I guess I'll just flip a coin this week.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donutrun Jellies Posted December 4, 2004 Share Posted December 4, 2004 What's the best record out there for a fantasy team that has started Vick every week but the bye? Atlanta's winning, but is anybody dominating fantasy land with Vick? Is it a bit embarrassing for Vick fans to be trapped in a "just you wait, he's gonna be better that Drew Brees" debate? That fun having been poked, I'm a fan of Vick as an athlete and think he has a bright future as a QB in this league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Post Posted December 4, 2004 Share Posted December 4, 2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phenom Posted December 5, 2004 Share Posted December 5, 2004 Is it a bit embarrassing for Vick fans to be trapped in a "just you wait, he's gonna be better that Drew Brees" debate? 591666[/snapback] But then Brees has a better QB rating than Mcnabb, Favre, Brady and Bulger. He's thrown the 6th most TD's and the least amount of TD's of any starting QB. He has been quite a bitt better than many other QB's and has had a very good year. Vick has nothing to be embarrassed about especially since his team has a better overall record; Atlanta has beaten San Diego and Denver while San Diego has lost to every team on their schedule with a winning record except Jacksonville (the Jets, Denver and Atlanta)........... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donutrun Jellies Posted December 5, 2004 Share Posted December 5, 2004 Vick has nothing to be embarrassed about especially since his team has a better overall record; Atlanta has beaten San Diego and Denver while San Diego has lost to every team on their schedule with a winning record except Jacksonville (the Jets, Denver and Atlanta)........... 591946[/snapback] Wonder how Vick and his bandwagon are feeling after the first half against .. Tampa?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted December 5, 2004 Share Posted December 5, 2004 Wonder how Vick and his bandwagon are feeling after the first half against .. Tampa?? 594091[/snapback] Good defense Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donutrun Jellies Posted December 5, 2004 Share Posted December 5, 2004 (edited) Good defense 594097[/snapback] So Vick has half the total yards of Brian Griese and has an INT and TWO fumbles and they're getting shutout by a 4-7 Tampa Bay team that's given up more points this year than the hobbled GMen and the pathetic Redskins? Yep. Probably good defense. And here I started Atl DEF thinking vick would control the day and the ATL def would take care of the rest. Sigh. I'm not good at this. edit to point out 5 sacks of the ultramobile vick? are we sure he isn't kordell? Edited December 5, 2004 by Donutrun Jellies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted December 5, 2004 Share Posted December 5, 2004 If the Colts defense is awesome. Then the Bucs defense is the new Steel Curtain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Score 1 Posted December 5, 2004 Share Posted December 5, 2004 Vick sure looked bad today NO pocket awareness Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donutrun Jellies Posted December 5, 2004 Share Posted December 5, 2004 Vick sure looked bad today NO pocket awareness 594249[/snapback] How does this guy play like superman one week, clark kent the next week, and then Lois Lane the next??? Which vick you gonna get? It's bizzare. He's so good and so talented and yet some weeks, he seems to be ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Vatican Hitsquad Posted December 5, 2004 Author Share Posted December 5, 2004 I can't beleive BIg Score dug up this thread. To answer the original-revival question, I still feel the same way. He has shown moments of brilliance, but he always has. Today is a perfect example of his inexperience, and it's not the only game this season he has. He looked horrible, absolutely Eli Manning awful. Drew Brees has way better numbers this season, he's a killer. But no way do I annoint him to KIng of QBs... the guy sucked the previous seasons, and until he can put up those numbers nat least next year he's just a flash in the pan also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whomper Posted December 5, 2004 Share Posted December 5, 2004 There is no common ground with Vick fantasy wise..He either has a real good solid week or he sucks.He is never just average.Was gonna bench him for Hasslebach today..May come back to haunt me.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted December 14, 2010 Share Posted December 14, 2010 I say he's not overrated. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwzYo-qaxzM...feature=related Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearBroncos Posted December 14, 2010 Share Posted December 14, 2010 ROFL, I had to check the dates on some of these post... Lol, someone drummed up a 2004 thread... classic! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big John Posted December 14, 2010 Share Posted December 14, 2010 ROFL, I had to check the dates on some of these post... Lol, someone drummed up a 2004 thread... classic! 4 months short of the record for longest time between posts in a thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveman_Nick Posted December 14, 2010 Share Posted December 14, 2010 (edited) FYI, consider this "further notice"...Brees is no longer a one year wonder. Edited December 14, 2010 by Caveman_Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caddyman Posted December 14, 2010 Share Posted December 14, 2010 I say he's not overrated. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwzYo-qaxzM...feature=related He was in 2004. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redrumjuice Posted December 16, 2010 Share Posted December 16, 2010 Who let the dogs out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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