This is just perfect.

[TimC]

the stereotype man doesnt like being stereotyped....

 

 

Alright, that was funny.

[Savage Beatings]

I love how people keep trying to make the choices that Dick Cheney's adult daughter makes, into some kind of condemnation of Dick Cheney himself. Doesn't he give you all enough ammo on his own?

 

I would think that he would actually be praised by liberals for unconditionally loving his daughter even though she obviously chooses a lifestyle that is contrary to his beliefs. Guess not.

[Pope Flick]

he would also be in the minority of the "liberal" camp as well. i think i remember seeing a poll where 33% of registered democrats are in favor of extending marital rights to gays, and 55% are opposed. granted, with republicans it's probably more like 80/20, and with self-identified "religious conservatives" it's probably like 99/1. but that's gay marriage, not simply the idea that gay people can live their lives as they please, an idea which is supported by the vast majority of voters from BOTH parties.

 

 

All very true, but not really releveant to spain's claim which foceused solely on conservatives. Nice try at subject change, but not surprising coming from you.

 

"The live as they please" part certainly extends to adoption, which many do not support nor do many support the extension of benefits (that some major corporations do provide) or the ability to inheirit. And I don't see how you can say that people support the ability to "live as they please" while being against the ability to live as married couples. One flies in the face of the other.

 

BTW - Here's a reminder on how bad Kerry wanted you to remember Mary was a dyke. Although I seem to recall that the one Edwards dropped during his debate with Cheney was the worst of the lot.

[T_bone65]

I love how people keep trying to make the choices that Dick Cheney's adult daughter makes, into some kind of condemnation of Dick Cheney himself. Doesn't he give you all enough ammo on his own?

 

I would think that he would actually be praised by liberals for unconditionally loving his daughter even though she obviously chooses a lifestyle that is contrary to his beliefs. Guess not.

 

 

 

He sure gave enough to his hunting buddy

[billay]

yeah and there was also kerry, who mentioned cheney's daughter, a lesbian, in the debates. and what ruffled the most feathers, if i recall correctly, was the classlessness of the move -- assuming, like you are, that cheney's supporters will support him less, and blatantly attempting to stoke their perceived bigotry to their own electoral advantage.

I don't recall Kerry mentioning it. What I recall is Edwards mentioning it in regards to Cheny being a loving father, or some such comment, and Cheny graciously accepting his compliment. Days later it was considered a "classless" maneuver, despite Cheny's lack of objection to the original comment.

 

yeah, that's why she was cheney's campaign manager in 2004, getting up on the podium with her family AND her partner after the debates and various other public appearances.

You're right, I'm suprised he didn't ask her chow box right there on stage.

 

eh, i don't think she affects people attitudes toward gay marriage and the like one iota. all she really does is give "tolerant" people like yourself a chance to display your "tolerance" (and class) by standing up and shouting, "HA! a LESBIAN....cheney's daughter is a LESBIAN, and she's gonna have a little carpet-muncher baby with her dyke 'partner'! hahahaha!! that that, republicans."

 

Oh, give me a break, Az. Cheny has been the figurehead of a movement to villianize gay's in this country. When I enjoy the irony that his own daughter is gay, and about to have a child, with the full support of her father, I do so, not because it undermines his family, but it undermines the position of those who would seek to deny her the possibility of living her life as she chooses. Of course there's nothing wrong with it. But Cheny has profited politically from approving, tacitly or otherwise, of his supporters position that it is wrong.

 

I am classless only under the presumption that there is actually somehting wrong with the way Mary Cheny is living her life.

[CaP'N GRuNGe]

I heard that Kevin Federline is the father.

[detlef]

I love how people keep trying to make the choices that Dick Cheney's adult daughter makes, into some kind of condemnation of Dick Cheney himself. Doesn't he give you all enough ammo on his own?

 

I would think that he would actually be praised by liberals for unconditionally loving his daughter even though she obviously chooses a lifestyle that is contrary to his beliefs. Guess not.

 

That's pretty much how I feel.

[skins]

I love how people keep trying to make the choices that Dick Cheney's adult daughter makes, into some kind of condemnation of Dick Cheney himself. Doesn't he give you all enough ammo on his own?

 

I would think that he would actually be praised by liberals for unconditionally loving his daughter even though she obviously chooses a lifestyle that is contrary to his beliefs. Guess not.

 

 

I think it is more a condemnation of Republicans than of Cheney. But he should be condemned as well. Is he to be praised for unconditionally loving his daughter and quietly and passively standing by while his political comrades and party members denounced her as evil, unnatural, sinful, and detrimental to America?

 

I dont think I am going to praise him for that.

[Pope Flick]

I don't recall Kerry mentioning it. What I recall is Edwards mentioning it in regards to Cheny being a loving father, or some such comment, and Cheny graciously accepting his compliment. Days later it was considered a "classless" maneuver, despite Cheny's lack of objection to the original comment.

 

 

Well, I wasn't supporting Bushco, but even I could see while watching the debate that Edwards steered his answer towards her sexual orientation in a classless manner; it wasn't relevant at all to the question, mush less the stakes on the table and put Cheney in the position of "being gracious" or taking the high road which he did.

 

All IS fair in love, war and politics but Cheney avoided that s h i t trap rookie Edwards laid for him like a pro and in the end made Edwards look like a goof for broaching that irrelevant topic in regards to the question. Was Cheney's hypocrisy on the matter relevant? Certainly, but that forum never provided the correct scenario to point it out and Edwards reached.

Edited December 7, 2006 by Pope Flick

[Azazello1313]

Cheny has been the figurehead of a movement to villianize gay's in this country.

 

what??? that is a load of utter bullchit.

 

I enjoy the irony that his own daughter is gay

 

clearly. i'm not sure which is more ironic, though. the fact that cheney loves his daughter, supports her choices, appears everywhere with her publicly, and is happy about becoming a grandfather. or the fact that "tolerant" people like yourself want to try and make an issue out of that.

 

I am classless only under the presumption that there is actually somehting wrong with the way Mary Cheny is living her life.

 

 

oh ok, that makes sense. so like the 2000 buch campaign lackey that sent out calls about mccain's illegitimate black daughter or whatever....that's only a classless move under the presumption that interracial relationships are bad. that makes perfect sense.

[billay]

FWIW, here is the exchange

 

Question 12 - How can Cheney support Bush administration's ban on same-sex unions?

 

FILL: The next question goes to you, Mr. Vice President.

 

I want to read something you said four years ago at this very setting: "Freedom means freedom for everybody." You said it again recently when you were asked about legalizing same-sex unions. And you used your family's experience as a context for your remarks.

 

Can you describe then your administration's support for a constitutional ban on same-sex unions?

 

CHENEY: Gwen, you're right, four years ago in this debate, the subject came up. And I said then and I believe today that freedom does mean freedom for everybody. People ought to be free to choose any arrangement they want. It's really no one else's business. That's a separate question from the issue of whether or not government should sanction or approve or give some sort of authorization, if you will, to these relationships.

 

Traditionally, that's been an issue for the states. States have regulated marriage, if you will. That would be my preference.

 

In effect, what's happened is that in recent months, especially in Massachusetts, but also in California, but in Massachusetts we had the Massachusetts Supreme Court direct the state of -- the legislature of Massachusetts to modify their constitution to allow gay marriage.

 

And the fact is that the president felt that it was important to make it clear that that's the wrong way to go, as far as he's concerned.

 

Now, he sets the policy for this administration, and I support the president.

 

IFILL: Senator Edwards, 90 seconds.

 

EDWARDS: Yes. Let me say first, on an issue that the vice president said in his last answer before we got to this question, talking about tax policy, the country needs to know that under what they have put in place and want to put in place, a millionaire sitting by their swimming pool, collecting their statements to see how much money they're making, make their money from dividends, pays a lower tax rate than the men and women who are receiving paychecks for serving on the ground in Iraq.

 

Now, they may think that's right. John Kerry and I do not.

 

We don't just value wealth, which they do. We value work in this country. And it is a fundamental value difference between them and us.

 

Now, as to this question, let me say first that I think the vice president and his wife love their daughter. I think they love her very much. And you can't have anything but respect for the fact that they're willing to talk about the fact that they have a gay daughter, the fact that they embrace her. It's a wonderful thing. And there are millions of parents like that who love their children, who want their children to be happy.

 

And I believe that marriage is between a man and a woman, and so does John Kerry.

 

I also believe that there should be partnership benefits for gay and lesbian couples in long-term, committed relationships.

 

But we should not use the Constitution to divide this country.

 

No state for the last 200 years has ever had to recognize another state's marriage.

 

This is using the Constitution as a political tool, and it's wrong.

 

(Back to top)

 

Question 13 - What is Kerry and Edwards' stance on gay marriage?

 

IFILL: New question, but same subject.

 

As the vice president mentioned, John Kerry comes from the state of Massachusetts, which has taken as big a step as any state in the union to legalize gay marriage. Yet both you and Senator Kerry say you oppose it.

 

Are you trying to have it both ways?

 

EDWARDS: No. I think we've both said the same thing all along.

 

We both believe that -- and this goes onto the end of what I just talked about -- we both believe that marriage is between a man and a woman.

 

But we also believe that gay and lesbians and gay and lesbian couples, those who have been in long-term relationships, deserve to be treated respectfully, they deserve to have benefits.

 

For example, a gay couple now has a very difficult time, one, visiting the other when they're in the hospital, or, for example, if, heaven forbid, one of them were to pass away, they have trouble even arranging the funeral.

 

I mean, those are not the kind of things that John Kerry and I believe in. I suspect the vice president himself does not believe in that.

 

But we don't -- we do believe that marriage should be between a man and a woman.

 

And I want to go back, if I can, to the question you just asked, which is this constitutional amendment.

 

I want to make sure people understand that the president is proposing a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage that is completely unnecessary.

 

Under the law of this country for the last 200 years, no state has been required to recognize another state's marriage.

 

Let me just be simple about this. My state of North Carolina would not be required to recognize a marriage from Massachusetts, which you just asked about.

 

There is absolutely no purpose in the law and in reality for this amendment. It's nothing but a political tool. And it's being used in an effort to divide this country on an issue that we should not be dividing America on.

 

We ought to be talking about issues like health care and jobs and what's happening in Iraq, not using an issue to divide this country in a way that's solely for political purposes. It's wrong.

 

IFILL: Mr. Vice President, you have 90 seconds.

 

CHENEY: Well, Gwen, let me simply thank the senator for the kind words he said about my family and our daughter. I appreciate that very much.

 

IFILL: That's it?

 

CHENEY: That's it.

 

IFILL: OK, then we'll move on to the next question.

 

 

[CaP'N GRuNGe]

what??? that is a load of utter bullchit.

clearly. i'm not sure which is more ironic, though. the fact that cheney loves his daughter, supports her choices, appears everywhere with her publicly, and is happy about becoming a grandfather. or the fact that "tolerant" people like yourself want to try and make an issue out of that.

oh ok, that makes sense. so like the 2000 buch campaign lackey that sent out calls about mccain's illegitimate black daughter or whatever....that's only a classless move under the presumption that interracial relationships are bad. that makes perfect sense.

 

 

You assume much about Cheney's feelings and appear to be tapped in to some sort of Dick and Mary worldwide speaking tour that the rest or us are unaware of...

[Azazello1313]

All very true, but not really releveant to spain's claim which foceused solely on conservatives. Nice try at subject change, but not surprising coming from you.

 

i don't think spain was saying "conservatives think gays should be able to marry", i think he was saying "i'm basically a conservative, and i think gays should be able to marry".

 

 

I don't recall Kerry mentioning it.

 

SCHIEFFER: ...Do you believe homosexuality is a choice?

KERRY: We're all God's children, Bob. And I think if you were to talk to Dick Cheney's daughter, who is a lesbian, she would tell you that she's being who she was, she's being who she was born as.

 

kerry's comments created MUCH more of a stir than edwards', they were much more out-of-the-blue and gratuitous. i don't think the cheneys themselves every really said anything publicly about edwards' comments, but they certainly did about kerry's.

[skins]

It is hilarious to watch Asz defend his homohatin political party.

[billay]

what??? that is a load of utter bullchit.

Denial ain't just a river in Egypt.

 

clearly. i'm not sure which is more ironic, though. the fact that cheney loves his daughter, supports her choices, appears everywhere with her publicly, and is happy about becoming a grandfather. or the fact that "tolerant" people like yourself want to try and make an issue out of that.

 

oh ok, that makes sense. so like the 2000 buch campaign lackey that sent out calls about mccain's illegitimate black daughter or whatever....that's only a classless move under the presumption that interracial relationships are bad. that makes perfect sense.

 

You are clearly missing the point Az.

[CaP'N GRuNGe]

It is hilarious to watch Asz defend his homohatin political party.

 

 

They only hate them publically. In private it's a much different matter.

 

See Rudy Guliani shacking up with two gay men after moving out of the Mayor's residence in NY when going through his separation with his wife.

Edited December 7, 2006 by CaP'N GRuNGe

[billay]

 

SCHIEFFER: ...Do you believe homosexuality is a choice?

KERRY: We're all God's children, Bob. And I think if you were to talk to Dick Cheney's daughter, who is a lesbian, she would tell you that she's being who she was, she's being who she was born as.

 

kerry's comments created MUCH more of a stir than edwards', they were much more out-of-the-blue and gratuitous. i don't think the cheneys themselves every really said anything publicly about edwards' comments, but they certainly did about kerry's.

 

Well, it's been well established that Kerry isn't much of an orator.

 

 

CHENEY: Well, Gwen, let me simply thank the senator for the kind words he said about my family and our daughter. I appreciate that very much.

 

[Azazello1313]

You assume much about Cheney's feelings and appear to be tapped in to some sort of Dick and Mary worldwide speaking tour that the rest or us are unaware of...

 

 

yeah it's a huge secret

[Duchess Jack]

The term conservative and religious right are NOT synonymous. I am a conservative but I am agnostic.

 

Luckily you never resort to such broadbrushed tactics :oldrolleyes:

[CaP'N GRuNGe]

Well, it's been well established that Kerry isn't much of an orator.

 

 

Kerry may have been somewhat out of line with his comments, but when your political opponent is the #2 guy in charge of a political movement to keep gay rights at least minimized, and the subject comes up, I believe it was more than fair game.

[Azazello1313]

Denial ain't just a river in Egypt.

You are clearly missing the point Az.

 

 

what am i denying? what point am i missing? that "cheney is the figurehead of a movement to villianize gays"? he is no such thing. that is bad-faith political reductionism at its finest. like saying harry reid is the figurehead of a movement to villianize people of faith. it is not only ridiculously incorrect, it is truly skins-like.

[alexgaddis]

I think OBGYN's should be able to practice their love with women everywhere...

[CaP'N GRuNGe]

I think OBGYN's should be able to practice their love with women everywhere...

 

 

If Dubya believes that man can co-exist with fish, how come he doesn't at least hold gays to the same level of high regard?

[H8tank]

So in this thread we have learned...

 

#1 billay is gay

 

#2 lieberals are truely very ontolerant

 

#3 lieberals want us to accept gays, but they are oh so quick to point the ass finger like the judgemental dorks they are

[Clubfoothead]

So in this thread we have learned...

 

#1 billay is gay

 

#2 lieberals are truely very ontolerant

 

#3 lieberals want us to accept gays, but they are oh so quick to point the ass finger like the judgemental dorks they are

 

 

While I've been away I've been saving all my cigarette butts in coffee cans in the shed to dump on the sidewalk in front of your office. I have 7 cans now.

 

Merry Christmas.