FishFreak Posted August 7, 2007 Share Posted August 7, 2007 5'-10" & 217 lbs = diminutive??? Some of the best RBs in the history of the NFL fall into that height/weight range. That's what I was thinking but he does look small like a scat back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingfish247 Posted August 7, 2007 Share Posted August 7, 2007 (edited) 5'-10" & 217 lbs = diminutive??? Some of the best RBs in the history of the NFL fall into that height/weight range. DeShaun lists at 6/222... so a whole 2 inches and 5 lbs. Reuben Droughns lists at 5-11/222... 1 inch and 5 lbs. Is Reuben Droughns "diminutive"??? Edited August 7, 2007 by kingfish247 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingfish247 Posted August 7, 2007 Share Posted August 7, 2007 (edited) Gonna disagree. Vick was always a threat to run and the passing game had Crumpler as the leading receiver. Without Vick this is a different team, and how much they stink, or whether it gets better is yet to be tested. If the offense doesn’t click and they have to abandon the running game to toss the hail Mary’s, it doesn’t bode well for RB FF points. The more predictable the offense is, the easier it is to defend against. Carolina is basically the same team and S.Smith is healthy, and I’d guess the plan would go RBBC. DW had 33 receptions last year, so in a PPR scoring system that could tip the scales. Risk/reward on both sides, but the better overall offense should provide the most opportunity to score fantasy points. I see your point however a FF RB still requires opportunity. DW had almost 1/3 of his receptions in 2 games... the two games he started when Deshaun was out. In the 11 other games, DW totaled 23 catches. With Norwood getting HEAVY use in TC in the pass game (word out of camp is that he's been catching a TON of balls out of the backfield) AND being the primary back (> OR = 2/3 of the touches)... you'd have to rank Norwood over DW at this point. Again, DW is working in the return game. They're not going to use an RB they plan on using heavily (say > 1/2 of the touches) on kick returns. Feature RBs can still do well on bad teams (see e.g. Lamont Jordan and Droughns in '05, KJ last year, Edge was a perfect #2 RB/great RB3 down the stretch last year, Betts/Portis even though the Skins were losing games and getting behind, Miami was pretty bad yet Brown was a viable FF starter etc.). Edited August 7, 2007 by kingfish247 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawks21 Posted August 7, 2007 Share Posted August 7, 2007 Deangelo is maybe 5'8 210....maybe. He is tiny. You only have to watch him once to see that. If Foster truly starts, I don't think I have seen a personnel decision this horrendous in a long time. The Panthers brass and coaches should be and will be embarrassed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thews40 Posted August 7, 2007 Share Posted August 7, 2007 I see your point however a FF RB still requires opportunity. DW had almost 1/3 of his receptions in 2 games... the two games he started when Deshaun was out. In the 11 other games, DW totaled 23 catches. With Norwood getting HEAVY use in TC in the pass game (word out of camp is that he's been catching a TON of balls out of the backfield) AND being the primary back (> OR = 2/3 of the touches)... you'd have to rank Norwood over DW at this point. Again, DW is working in the return game. They're not going to use an RB they plan on using heavily (say > 1/2 of the touches) on kick returns. Feature RBs can still do well on bad teams (see e.g. Lamont Jordan and Droughns in '05, KJ last year, Edge was a perfect #2 RB/great RB3 down the stretch last year, Betts/Portis even though the Skins were losing games and getting behind, Miami was pretty bad yet Brown was a viable FF starter etc.). Your point about Lamont Jordan on a bad team is better defined by just how bad. The Raiders were pathetic last year, and so was Jordan (434/2). If the O can't get the job done, the D wears out and the game can get out of hand quickly. I don't expect the Falcons to be as bad as last year's Raiders, but if the passing game sucks too bad the defense puts focus on stopping the run. Without the threat of Vick to take off, I guess my point is there's a lot of unpredictability in the Falcons altogether. The passing game could improve, which make it better for the RB's, but at this point no one really knows. Your point about DW gettng most of the receptions when he started is exactly why the PPR favors him. The way I see it, if it's RBBC, the better back will shine eventually. Case in point would be Addai/Rhodes last year. Rhodes kept the starting job, but Addai was really the one that made the difference and eventually took over. Another point is garbage time. If Carolina gets back to their old form and scores a bunch, Foster may be pulled just because he's more prone to injury, and DW could face a worn out D. Prolly all wishful thinking because I drafted DW, but the Falcons are too changed IMO to accurately predict how the team functions without Vick. Throw in the battle-tested Dunn with an injury now, and it could be feast or famine, but it'll be famine if the team can't get the passing game in gear like last year's Raiders... but no team can ever be that bad again... can they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PantherDave Posted August 7, 2007 Share Posted August 7, 2007 I think it's gonna be close to 50-50 between the two, but be prepared for this-Foster has been looking really, really good in this new OT scheme, and while it's early in TC and such the Carolina ruuning game finally matches the type RB's they have on the roster. So, don't be surprized if all the DF haters aren't hanging off his sack by week 6, as he may finally-impress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingfish247 Posted August 7, 2007 Share Posted August 7, 2007 (edited) Prolly all wishful thinking because I drafted DW, but the Falcons are too changed IMO to accurately predict how the team functions without Vick. I'm assuming the Falcons will still show up for 16 games this year. I'm also going to assume that they will run the ball and probably throw some passes to the RB. I'm assuming they don't need Norwood in the kick return game. Since the only other viable starting RB on the roster turned 32 this year and has had 2 surgeries this offseason, I'm assuming Norwood will see a lot of action. If not most of the action as a starter. I'm also going to assume the new coaching staff has no allegiance to his competition. They won't continue, blindly, inserting an inferior RB into their lineup because they signed him or drafted him. I'm not disagreeing that DW is in a better offense however it wouldn't do any DW owners any good even if he was on the '89 49ers returning kicks and playing behind Roger Craig. DW, imo, would put up better numbers than Norwood however DW will not do so if he's returning kicks and backing up Deshaun Foster. Every FFer assumed DW would take over LAST year b/c Foster isn't a good RB and/or he'd get injured. Well he got injured and STILL retained the job. As far as Deshaun not being too good, well it seems that Fox hasn't read that memo, isn't convinced, and/or is loyal to the veteran Foster. If you're content on waiting for DW to get his chance then more power to you however where DW is being taken in redrafts is early for a speculative pick that may or may not pan out before Carolina's bye. Edited August 7, 2007 by kingfish247 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomfin2000 Posted August 8, 2007 Share Posted August 8, 2007 (edited) I think it's gonna be close to 50-50 between the two, but be prepared for this-Foster has been looking really, really good in this new OT scheme, and while it's early in TC and such the Carolina ruuning game finally matches the type RB's they have on the roster. So, don't be surprized if all the DF haters aren't hanging off his sack by week 6, as he may finally-impress. This is actually a great year to draft Foster IMHO. REALATIVE TO HIS ADP, he's a nice value pick. Notice I put REALATIVE TO HIS ADP in caps so no accuses me of saying the guy is going to be a stud or an every week starter. What I'm talking about here is solid depth at a discount price. Edited August 8, 2007 by tomfin2000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeeR Posted August 8, 2007 Share Posted August 8, 2007 Agree. Wms is going too high and Foster too low. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawks21 Posted August 8, 2007 Share Posted August 8, 2007 Agree. Wms is going too high and Foster too low. Too low? What have we seen from Deshaun Foster ever that would substantiate taking him in a decently high round? Especially with a 2nd year, first-round pick nipping at his heels. Deshaun is done. He's on the three week plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Beatings Posted August 8, 2007 Share Posted August 8, 2007 Look at this rumor out of training camp! Sources tell us Panthers RB DeShaun Foster is getting most of the first-team reps in training camp — and will enter the season as the starter for the second straight year — because the coaching staff is more comfortable with his pass-blocking abilities than those of diminutive second-year RB DeAngelo Williams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturphy Posted August 8, 2007 Share Posted August 8, 2007 Look at this rumor out of training camp! Hate to break it to ya, but that was posted a page earlier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Beatings Posted August 8, 2007 Share Posted August 8, 2007 Hate to break it to ya, but that was posted a page earlier. I'm quick as molasses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeeR Posted August 8, 2007 Share Posted August 8, 2007 Too low? What have we seen from Deshaun Foster ever that would substantiate taking him in a decently high round? Especially with a 2nd year, first-round pick nipping at his heels. Deshaun is done. He's on the three week plan. ? Who said anything about a high round - I don't know what the "ADP" is but I'm seeing him go WAY late in most drafts and well behind Wms. I'm no fan either, but for a guy who appears by all account to be the starter, just seems low to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomfin2000 Posted August 12, 2007 Share Posted August 12, 2007 Foster had 62 yards on 5 carries and a reception for 9 yards in a little over a quarter's worth of work this evening, so this continues to look like the RBBC that the NFL media and Panthers faithful have told us that it would be since training camp started. Of course with all this talk about Foster and Williams, Goings remains the odd man out even though he performs like a legit NFL starter everytime he's called upon. This poor guy is one of the most underated and unappreciated RBs in the NFL. As usual, he's looked good this evening with 50 yards on 11 carries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brentastic Posted August 12, 2007 Author Share Posted August 12, 2007 I've made up my mind - Foster will be the starter (until injured) and DeAngelo will disappoint the fantasy owners who drafted him. I would consider taking a flier on Foster but I'm not really targeting him either. D-will won't be on any of my rosters this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thews40 Posted August 12, 2007 Share Posted August 12, 2007 (edited) Why are there no stats for DW in tonight's game? Edited August 12, 2007 by Thews40 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomfin2000 Posted August 12, 2007 Share Posted August 12, 2007 I'm not sure why he didn't play. I don't remember reading anything about an injury. You could make the argument that if he had played, he would have had the same success that Foster and Goings did, and I wouldn't disagree with you. I just get the impression that Foster has to either fall flat on his face or get injured for Williams to take command of the job and it doesn't look like the former is going to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
major-tom Posted August 12, 2007 Share Posted August 12, 2007 You would think he'd have atleast one touch tonight, or could the Panthers be that concerned/paranoid about an injury? That wouldn't suprise me and I expect he'll see some action next pre-season game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbimm Posted August 12, 2007 Share Posted August 12, 2007 Maybe i'm reading too much into it but...... I think Williams not playing actually says that he wil be the feature back and they are just saving him for the regular season! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
half_hennessy Posted August 12, 2007 Share Posted August 12, 2007 I was thinking that aswell maybe him not touching the ball yet might give him he inside track but I still see these guys splitting time for atleast he 1st 8 games barring injury, Fox seems stubborn to make alot of changes look at when everyone expected Foster to takeover from Davis it just never happened in the end these 2 guys will share the time and neither one will be more than a 3rd starter until the midway point of the year and by that time it could be to late to help to much anyway. In saying all this I love Williams and I love what I have seen from him and if not this year then next I feel he will showcase the talent that most seem to think he has. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billay Posted August 12, 2007 Share Posted August 12, 2007 Maybe i'm reading too much into it but...... I think Williams not playing actually says that he wil be the feature back and they are just saving him for the regular season! I think you definately are reading too much into it. Unless Foster breaks his leg, he will be the starter on opening day. New OC or not, after they stuck with him last season when he looked so bad, I can only assume that they will give him every opportunity to succede this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beaumont Posted August 12, 2007 Share Posted August 12, 2007 (edited) He came up with an ankle injury and they held him out ... http://community.heraldonline.com/williams_out_not_serious If this effects the situation at all, it is in Fosters favor ... Edited August 12, 2007 by Beaumont Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PantherDave Posted August 12, 2007 Share Posted August 12, 2007 I think you definately are reading too much into it. Unless Foster breaks his leg, he will be the starter on opening day. New OC or not, after they stuck with him last season when he looked so bad, I can only assume that they will give him every opportunity to succede this season. Williams tweaked an ankle in TC this week and it was still on the sore side, so they sat him. If it had been regular season he would have played. However, while not pimping him this year, the word was Foster has not looked good in the new O in TC, but looked "great", and he seemed to carry that over into last night's game-he played with speed and power and he dictated what he was going to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawks21 Posted August 12, 2007 Share Posted August 12, 2007 How ridiculous. This is like not giving Steve Smith a shot because you have Patrick Jeffers in front of him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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