Trojanmojo Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 If you don't buy into the religion anyway, is there any chance that you can pretend to go fundamentalist Mormon on her and at least finagle your way into another wife or two? Good thinking there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelBunz Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 Lots of terrific replies here.....and I will only play 'devil's advocate' for a second here. Maybe she is not truly trying to issue an ultimatum and reject you if you want to slide on the religion. Maybe her response is more aligned with how the church, her family and your community will view her if you suddenly drop out of sight in what is clearly an involved religion. She loved you when you first met and you weren't a mormon. But I think you both realized quite quickly that you don't live in a vacuum or a bubble. So you conformed. And be honest.....it helped you transition into a responsible adult apparently. Maybe she's also afraid that you'll revert to your former self and one beer with the game won't be enough. Anyway....talking it out is the only solution. I'm not sure if I would bring a counselor or a bishop into it right away. That's up to you both and how you feel the conversations are going on your own. I'm more aligned with TimC's way of thinking.....we are not religious....but spiritual. But I'm also speaking as a woman who is married to a man who absolutely hates going to "functions"....whether they are family dinners, funerals...birthdays.....etc. So half of my time at these events is spent making excuses for him and apologizing for him not making the function. That can get old. And in such an involved religion as yours...I imagine it would be 10 times as tough on your wife. I'd think you could come to some sort of understanding within your own home though. Couldn't you? Does it really have to be 100% or nothing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmarc117 Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 in the paper this morning....... http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationw...0,1491658.story Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 Okay, so most of the long time huddlers on here know I'm Mormon. I grew up Catholic and converted shortly after getting married, as my wife is Mormon,and I was looking to grow up a bit after 6 hardcore years of booze, drugs, and sex. That was 12 years ago, and over the last couple of years I've come to grips with the fact that I don't really buy the religion and would love to just be able to have a glass of wine with dinner or a beer watching a football game. Problem is, my wife has pretty much stated that if I leave the faith, I'll be looking for a new mate. I love my wife and we have a 6 year old son that I love as well. I'm perfectly willing to let the wife take him to church and let him decide for himself. I find myself in quite the conundrum - keep living in a manner that I don't believe, or risk losing my wife (again, who I love totally and unconditionally, regardless of her beliefs.) I know we have a few Mormons on the board and I was wondering if they, or anyone of another faith, has seen anything like this happen. I just wonder that if push comes to shove if my wife will back down at all. I'm pretty torn up about it. This may seem like an odd place to come for advice, but the anonymity appeals to me. wow. tough stuff. first of all, I will come right out and say that I basically think your wife is bluffing. because even if her status in the church and all that ranks above your family in her eyes, I am pretty sure a divorce that is purely her choosing and for these reasons would knock her down in the eyes of the church more than having a husband who doesn't participate in churchly functions. I think above all you need to be honest with your wife. hopefully, your "backsliding" has more to do with intellectual problems with mormon doctrine and the like than it does with wanting to drink a beer while watching a football game. because your position is obviously a lot easier to defend in that context. I don't believe you should put up a facade for her benefit, especially if SHE is the main one the facade is intended to trick -- that is just a wedge between you. it may smooth things over in the short term, but it is ultimately just driving you further apart. I think a key issue for you here is figuring out where YOU are spiritually. not just what you don't believe, but what you do believe. best of luck, man. I know how painful this stuff can be for all involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muck Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 Something else hit me about this ... She married you "after 6 hardcore years of booze, drugs, and sex"? ...what exactly was she expecting from you in your marriage as it regards spiritual leadership for her and any kids you'd have? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smithkt Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 This might not be a popular response but here goes..... From where I sit, this goes beyond religion. What I see is one person willing to love the other unconditionally, without judgment and his wife not willing to do the same thing. You need to be straight with her and she either accepts you as you are or it will not work. It may be a harsh fact, but do you really want to spend more of your life with a person who requires you to pay a price for her love? Neither of you will get the time back and may miss out on the opportunity to truly be happy. I know there is a child involved, but children are stronger than we all give them credit for. It would be much better for the child to grow up with two parents who are happy apart rather than unhappy together. The important part is to make sure the child knows they had nothing to do with it and that both parents love him/her. Never forget that the other parent is still an important part of that child's life and never allow your own feelings to color those of the child's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cunning Runt Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 As fathers, we lose the luxury of personal wants. As fathers, it is our responsibility to ensure our families are happy and healthy no matter what the cost is to our own personal views. This sounds good and all, but I personally do not agree with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonorator Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 hopefully, your "backsliding" has more to do with intellectual problems with mormon doctrine and the like than it does with wanting to drink a beer while watching a football game. because your position is obviously a lot easier to defend in that context. dude, you just posted this on thehuddle.com? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 dude, you just posted this on thehuddle.com? I see your point. thehuddle, where football and beer ARE religion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimC Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 The man, the woman, and God. Your spouse and child are real. I'd worry about them a little more than Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny...but that's just me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double Agent Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 Your spouse and child are real. I'd worry about them a little more than Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny...but that's just me. And here we go... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 (edited) Let me just make sure I completely understand this... are you saying that your wife is in essence blackmailing you into continuing to practice Mormonism, by threatening to end your marriage, even though she knows that in your heart you don't believe in it? Sounds like she would rather force you into a lie of a relationship with God, than to allow you the freedom to try to find the truth on your own. That's not my idea of a loving, trusting relationship. Try to explain to her that there are not two people on the face of the Earth at any given moment that are at the exact same place in their faith-journey with God. Ask her not to punish you for that fact by destroying your family. And no, this is not exclusive to Mormonism at all. I've seen this happen in my Catholic faith as well. Marriage spans many decades (for the most part) and individuals go through a lot of changes during that time. If she can't handle being there for you as you go through one of those changes, then maybe she never had a firm grasp on what marriage is supposed to be in the first place. That might sound harsh, but it very well could be the reality that you are faced with. Among many, many fine responses, this was the one that I most side with. Quite simply, she owes you more than she's giving and needs to honor your needs as much as you are obviously honoring hers. That you are even torn about this shows that plenty. Well, and those that said you two need to go see someone about this are dead on. Edited August 25, 2008 by detlef Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrTed46 Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 Your spouse and child are real. I'd worry about them a little more than Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny...but that's just me. That made me laugh. Religion is a dark road to go down if two people don't have the same view point. I think your wife WOULD NOT have married you IF you didn't convert to her religion, but you did. I am not certain you believed in the religion when you converted or you were in a way "forced" to believe in it. If you converted to her religion because you would not have been married otherwise that was your first mistake. Having said that, I believe that your wife would not have married you if you didn't convert and now you are telling her that you don't believe. I want to say I do not agree with at all, but I can see how she is feeling. Her intentions were very clear in the beginning where she has her religion (God) above all and now you violate the condition of your marriage. I think this is a snowball effect of when you first converted. I may be wrong but this is my guess. This is a when I wore my first dressed up situation my friend... there is no easy way or an answer here on thehuddle that you can rely on. You have to talk to dig deep down inside your heart and talk to your wife and make a decision from there. My number one reason why I hate religion and ultimately lean towards no religion (athiest) is because religion tears the world apart and not unites it. I believe every human should be loving towards each other and help each other but religion actually makes us do the opposite (unless you are all part of the same religion). IMO, if you converted to marry your wife, keep your mouth shut and deal with it... you made that choice years ago. If you truley change your mind now, it gets complicated. good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smithkt Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 IMO, if you converted to marry your wife, keep your mouth shut and deal with it... you made that choice years ago. If you truley change your mind now, it gets complicated. This is one part of your post I don't agree with. Doesn't matter whether it gets complicated or not. Living in misery is never the answer. Be honest about your feelings. You either work it out or don't. Suffering in silence is not the solution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darin3 Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 Let me just make sure I completely understand this... are you saying that your wife is in essence blackmailing you into continuing to practice Mormonism, by threatening to end your marriage, even though she knows that in your heart you don't believe in it? Sounds like she would rather force you into a lie of a relationship with God, than to allow you the freedom to try to find the truth on your own. That's not my idea of a loving, trusting relationship. Try to explain to her that there are not two people on the face of the Earth at any given moment that are at the exact same place in their faith-journey with God. Ask her not to punish you for that fact by destroying your family. And no, this is not exclusive to Mormonism at all. I've seen this happen in my Catholic faith as well. Marriage spans many decades (for the most part) and individuals go through a lot of changes during that time. If she can't handle being there for you as you go through one of those changes, then maybe she never had a firm grasp on what marriage is supposed to be in the first place. That might sound harsh, but it very well could be the reality that you are faced with. SB is not only a funny mofo, but extremely wise as well. Great post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrTed46 Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 This is one part of your post I don't agree with. Doesn't matter whether it gets complicated or not. Living in misery is never the answer. Be honest about your feelings. You either work it out or don't. Suffering in silence is not the solution. I know most dont agree with that is why I wrote IMO (In my opinion). I also wrote above, no answer on thehuddle is going to get you there. I clearly wrote it in two paragraphs for that reason. If it were me, if I forced myself to convert I would deal with the consequences now. Just wanted to make my point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 I was trying to find "official" mormon policy toward divorce because a spouse has "lost his/her faith", and I found this discussion. pretty interesting. you can sense a lot of pain in some of the responses. it is mostly anecdotes about marriages with problems much like yours, cyclones, but there is also one little quote from, I guess, the current mormon "prophet" or whatever: "You women, be good women, be good mothers. Be kind and gracious and generous. Strengthen your children with your faith and your testimony. Lift them up. Help them to walk through the troubled ways of the world as they grow in this very difficult age. Support, sustain, uphold, and bless your husbands with your love and your encouragement, and the Lord will bless you. Even if they are not members of the Church, bless them with kindness and reach out to them every good way that you can. The chances are that they will become members of the Church before they reach the time they die. It may be a long time and you may have a lot to put up with, but if that happens, you will think it is all worth it." — From member meeting, Philadelphia Pa., Oct. 25, 2002 something you can possibly toss at her if she continues to threaten you with divorce over your "unbelief". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrTed46 Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 I was trying to find "official" mormon policy toward divorce because a spouse has "lost his/her faith", and I found this discussion. pretty interesting. you can sense a lot of pain in some of the responses. it is mostly anecdotes about marriages with problems much like yours, cyclones, but there is also one little quote from, I guess, the current mormon "prophet" or whatever: something you can possibly toss at her if she continues to threaten you with divorce over your "unbelief". If all religions follow that preaching I'd support them all thats for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted August 26, 2008 Share Posted August 26, 2008 I think I might claim to have become a Wiccan and see what happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaxfactor Posted August 26, 2008 Share Posted August 26, 2008 I grew up Catholic and converted shortly after getting married, as my wife is . How did your wife feel about you when you got married? You say you converted shortly after getting married. This may sound cruel and I apologize because I'm trying to be as blunt as possible, but I would have never married her if I knew she wanted to convert me beforehand. Now you have kids and it's 12 years later. I'd say you're pretty much stuck for the sake of your kids. How long did you know her before you got married? Maybe it was her spirituality that pulled you off the wrong path that you were on. If that's the case, you certainly should not turn your back on it now after 12 years. Good luck, bro. This is a tough one, but you should tell her how you feel at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yo mama Posted August 26, 2008 Share Posted August 26, 2008 (edited) Sorry, but if someone loves you they don't give you ultimatums like this, unless they are trying to curb your extremely destructive behavior. Having a beer here and there hardly qualifies. Look, if *she* believes in God surely she doesn't want you lying to him. She probably doesn't want you lying to her, either. Personally, I'd seek independent religious counsel from within the Church, by myself, to discuss how my spouse was approaching the issue with me. If your religious leaders don't have any rules that would nullify your marriage based on the tenants of the LDS faith, your son won't become illegitimate or what not, etc., then I think you can boil this down to what it likely is: a power play on the part of your wife. Assuming you can get a little dogmatic support for the concept that the position she's putting you in is total crap, *then* I'd meet with the religious leaders together with the Mrs. and express your thoughts in that setting. Hopefully they'll back you on the concept that faith isn't something that can be forced on another. I'd be really, really surprised if your church said differently. And if they did, well... Now, in the (hopefully) unlikely event that your wife's religion is more important to her than her marriage and family well, that sucks rocks. But your left with two choices: (1) get out; or (2) negotiate. If she realistically expects you to fake being Mormon despite knowing that's not what you believe, then certainly there are a few things on your marital wish list that can be placed on the negotiating table in exchange. Marriage is about give and take; not take and take. FWIW, I don't think calling her "bluff" would be a real wise move at this point. No reason to go straight to the nuclear option. If you love her as much as you say you do you'll explore all other options before raising the stakes that high. If she loves you half as much, she'll should try and meet you part way. If she isn't willing to make that kind of effort, then I think that's a strong indicator of what your future years together may be like. Adjust accordingly. Edited August 26, 2008 by yo mama Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muck Posted August 26, 2008 Share Posted August 26, 2008 Something else hit me about this ... She married you "after 6 hardcore years of booze, drugs, and sex"? ...what exactly was she expecting from you in your marriage as it regards spiritual leadership for her and any kids you'd have? Still curious what the answer is to this... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirate lookin' at 40 Posted August 26, 2008 Share Posted August 26, 2008 I believe you should just have the beer.....and run as fast as you can away from anything having to do with Joseph Smith. Good Luck, hope it works out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclones Posted August 26, 2008 Author Share Posted August 26, 2008 Still curious what the answer is to this... I've never asked her that one, but it should be noted that I got married when I was 21, so this basically spans my high school and early college years. Par for the course, really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrTed46 Posted August 26, 2008 Share Posted August 26, 2008 (edited) I've never asked her that one, but it should be noted that I got married when I was 21, so this basically spans my high school and early college years. Par for the course, really. 90% of us here have has large amounts of drugs, girls, liquor before the age of 21 The other 10% are the ones that are banned Edited August 26, 2008 by MrTed46 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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